Protests Riots and Black Lives Matter

[Stan-and-Jan0]

I am quite beside myself with disgust and disappointment that Airbnb would enter the fray of political turmoil by supporting an organization who's stated mission is not only a lie but as they demonstrate daily, the protests and ensuing riots one has to know that it's not about racial equality. I will get into a long diatribe here but I'll just say that every time I see BLM box on the website with a donate button, I have to wonder if anyone at Airbnb actually knows what BLM stands for and what their true mission is. Look at what's happening in Seattle right now. It's really quite disheartening.

Very little respect left for this company.

[Stan-and-Jan0]

Hey all, thank you for the comments. I look at Airbnb s a means to and end. But also a partner in business. I can always go another direction with finding guests for my State Street Suites and in fact am moving in that direction. I'm opposed to the money Airbnb earns from me going to such misguided causes and Black Lives Matter. I know they think it's a noble cause but it's not. It's a lie and a dangerous cause.

So, I'll continue to wean myself off Airbnb as a primary booking engine. Probably go to the shorter nightly stays with a different booking platform such as VRBO, HomeAway, etc and more focus on direct bookings from a newly developed website and longer stays with Furnished Finder and some of the other corporate housing platforms. I'm sure there are many hosts and potential guests that have not spoken up that are as incensed about the in your face requests for donations to BLM on their main website page. It's the first thing people see. Peace out fellow Hosts.

[Mike323]

Right behind you!

[Sarah977]

@Helen350  "And I don't believe that street protests DO change hearts & minds."

Most of the hearts and minds are already made up and there is little one can do to change that. Those values and attitudes need to be instilled from a very young age- you aren't going to change the mind of a 50 year old racist.

The aim of street protests is to make everyone aware of the discrimination, to make it clear that this won't be accepted any longer,  to change legislation , the way the police deal with citizens and the way the courts deal with them if they operate in a discriminatory manner. 

They aren't about some airy-fairy notion of everyone suddenly realizing that their racism is wrong and becoming loving and accepting towards all. 

[Helen350]

@Sarah977 Ah yes, I can see your point about the rationale. - I still prefer the British option of writing to our Member of Parliament, or the Prime Minister/Home Secretary - or signing a petition! Much more civilized, & not open to misinterpretation, death or injury!

[Yadira22]

Actually @Helen350 not to downplay your opinion as it’s your right to have and express it and I respect this is yours. 

However, historically speaking the English have been protesting for well over 800 years- eg the Magna Carta, English Great Charter, charter of English liberties  granted by King John on June 15, 1215, under threat of civil war and reissued, with alterations, in 1216, 1217 and so forth. 

Also as a British person it is equally my own as well as your right as to choose to protest or not to as per our constitutional rights. 

-Article 10: The right to freedom of expression 

-Article 11: The right to peacefully assemble 

Combined they add up to the right to protest (peacefully)- so it is in my humblest opinion a very « British option ».

[Helen350]

Oh, I agree with the RIGHT to protest @Yadira22 , & very much agree with the right to freedom of expression!  Problem is, "the right to peacefully assemble may start peaceful, but not end up so!" - The pen is mightier than the sword! 🙂

[Yadira22]

@Helen350 

In the last weeks since the BLM movement took off (25th May 2020) we have seen changes as the below, this is only a small example of

-Minneapolis agreeing to remove funds (cannot find exact monetary value) previously allocated to the police force as to reinvest in the community. For example, for mental health centred situations be attended by better and more specifically trained individuals. Opportunities for job creation etc. This has also been the case for New York (subject to negotiation) Los Angeles (250 million USD) etc .

-Denver, the banning of choke holds and are said that officers are required to alert supervisors any time they point a gun at someone,” per the Denver Post 

-Dallas,  formally ban chokeholds and any force intended to restrict a person’s airway,” per the Dallas Morning News and introduce a policy to “warn before shooting,” along with new body-cam regulations. There will also be a new policy forcing officers to intervene whenever unnecessary force is used.

And not to mention that the perpetrators responsible for George Floyd’s death were officially charged (all four). Derek Chauvin’s Murder charge was lifted from third degree to second degree, despite their being evidence and willing to testify witness that he knew George Floyd personally and if the case this could be easily classified as first degree murder (pré-meditated). 

If as you say « pen is mightier than the sword » please, for the purpose of education provide an example which proves this to be the case. Thank you. 

[Helen350]

@Yadira22 The pen is mightier than the sword MORALLY speaking, because when one signs a petition, one is not being thuggish, nor fueling the fire of public incivility, nor the breakdown of law & order. Neither is one caught up in violence, injury....

I can think of many instances where UK legislation has been changed or planned new policy overturned by writing or petitioning , not gathering.

Ironically, Section 5 of the Public Order Act, the removal of which was spearheaded by a British  pressure group by diplomatic means WITHOUT street protests https://www.christian.org.uk/campaign/section-5-of-the-public-order-act/ . The same pressure group used the threat of legal action, (not mass street gatherings) to persuade Warwickshire Council to drop an element of it's new education policy.

[Melodie-And-John0]

@Yadira22 , That sounds great if you say it fast enough but when you start to break things down, you will see that the price for the things your saying have been inspired by riots and looting are so much larger than minor shifts that can be changed back just as fast as they were modified.  There are lots of new dead people, thousands of injured, thousands of businesses that were struggling with C19 are now out of business for the foreseeable future or forever and billions of dollars that could have helped uplift people will now go to repairing streets and buildings.

As an example of the Pen and Sword comparison in action, Martin Luther King Jr changed the nation and world with his words not his fists and millions that followed him in principle and deed set the stage to lift up dark skin peoples lives without destruction of the places they needed to live.  No greater example of peaceful demonstration changing lives in every part of our nation has happened in my nearly 60 years of life above ground  but there have been many pen v sword scenarios that come close to it throughout history.   Stay well, JR

[Yadira22]

Hi @Melodie-And-John0 

This is a very good example but without the protest before, during and after (this is all I am arguing), the speeches may have been made but not with the same viewership. Meaning that the change you are referring to may not have been made, discussion within social groups may never would have taken part, and much less the need to become self aware that one's experience is not another's and so forth.

My dispute above was purely on the use of protest alone (not rioting) being more powerful an "expression of speech" overall than letter writing but I understand why there may have been a confusion by my referral to "the sword" and no further explanation, similarly to how Susan failed to mention that she believed the pen was more powerful from a moral stance alone

In fact on another thread I mentioned that I outright oppose rioting, regardless of the responsible party, or reason for protesting. Not every business or community can or will survive it, it create chaos, allows for media outlets to move from discussing the issue at hand and instead monetarily benefit from the discussion of rioting, which is probably a lot more fitting into the "right or wrong discussion". Combined it also distorts the original narrative for the protest. But once again I was discussing protesting as a stand alone, not rioting. 

It is one thing to have an opinion on a subject matter but if the discussions as to challenge these are not even taking place or being listened to, then progressive change could never happen, as opinions are often centred by experiences but no two's experience are the same. 

[Melodie-And-John0]

@Yadira22 , I would give my life to protect your right to protest peacefully in our country and swore an oath on more than a few occasions to the US in the Army pledging to do so to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America.   I'm retired now but an  oath as solemn as that doesn't end at the end of enlistment, its a lifetime commitment I and a few 20 million or so Veterans hold dear.   What we wont tolerate is the trampling of other peoples rights in an attempt to get a point or ten across, thats unacceptable.   There is no room for negotiations when someone is holding a knife to your throat.  Stay well, JR

[Yadira22]

@Melodie-And-John0 

Sir (assuming from the JR, John)  thank you for your act of service in protecting your fellow countrymen’s constitutional rights.

Once again my part on this discussion has been centred around protesting as a stand alone- not all protests include rioting. 

It’s apparent that you may not be accepting of my views as rather than acknowledge my previous statement on rioting you choose to focus on “What we wont tolerate is the trampling of other peoples rights in an attempt to get a point or ten across, thats unacceptable“, which I assume is your reference to the rioting. However, rioting does not change the original cause for the protest in question (regardless of subject matter), nor does it make it less meaningful as a purpose. 

My own opinions and expressed views on these matters have been done so through the use of statistics, reports, historical references etc and not just blanket statements. Perhaps if we all discussed these matters as such, there would be less opportunity for misinterpretation etc, heck we might learn something from this open discussion.

It’s one thing to feel something and  it’s another to attach a personal opinion onto a statement, figure etc but without a thorough analysis or education on it, the later is quite dangerous as it’s usually limited to a single narrative or viewpoint and not much understanding or even intend to do so is given to it. 

 Regardless I respect your right to your opinion and appreciate it is yours. 

Have a beautiful day John! 

[Melodie-And-John0]

I am John Yadira, your welcome, I served with some of your fine countrymen in West Germany as well, we had some interesting conversations.  It really was my honor to serve and I might add with and for one of the most diverse and respected fighting forces in the world not unlike Britains in many ways.  I have to say, those Constitutional rights are mine to act on as well therefore they  must be  protected for me and my family, without them, we would be lost. 

What I'm saying @Yadira22 is I do respect the rights of those who protest peacefully as was MLK's way because that has been the greatest force of change that ends up lifting everyone's boats in the end.  The ultra brave darker skinned Americans that stood up against bigots and racists in the 60's by sitting in the seats they and their parents had been denied for no reason other than the color of their skin forced important situation's to unfold that might otherwise have ended up tragically without change.   

That was my point completely, purposeful change needs to happen for the sake of all humanity but very good people will die if ruthless individuals hell bent on chaos are allowed to control the narrative as they seem to be doing right now in a number of communities that really cant afford it.   The same thing that has happened in our mostly excellent Police forces that caused the need to protest today is happening to well meaning groups that are protesting.  Bad people with ill intent have infiltrated the marchers and peaceful protesters, if they cannot be separated, they will be considered one in the same and unfortunately any message carried within is tainted when innocent blood is spilled delivering it just like our LEO's are experiencing today, most don't deserve to be painted with the same brush.  

I honestly respect your opinion and and all others here, I'm here to learn not teach but sharing can only be done when everyone is on equal footing both in the streets and here On The Airbnb Forum.  Respect needs to be mutual and clearly that hasn't come through as desired in the expression of some very hot topics as of late.  We probably agree more than we disagree on civil and human rights as should be the nature of a sharing community of hosts from around the world.    Hopefully that will re-emerge with actionable solutions to tragic losses from both covid 19 and the events that spawned this thread.  You have an awesome day as well!  JR

[Juan63]

@Yadira22 Most of the changes are emotional reactions and straight up stupid. Banning choke holds is idiotic.  When done correctly, it's one of the most non violent methods of controlling a suspect. Cops need more money not less. They need better training, better pay and better quality candidates. You don't do this by defunding the police. 

[Fred13]

  The tempo of democracy is for government to move in slow increments of change, granted infuriating at times to the impatient, but a Godsend to most who surely find it abhorrent and dangerous for humans to embark on anarchy or outright civil war, in these modern times. 

   The democratic principle is based on representation, which at times may take the form of public protest, but not open anarchy, that sets democracy back every time. Appeasement at such times tends to not be sincere.

   Capitalism (or whatever you want to call it) is the direct descendant of democracy. Two central foundations of 'capitalism' is the recognition of private wealth (includes property), and the adherence to equal opportunity, but not results. It is a tough competitive system because it is largely a meritocracy. There lies its greatest value - it motivates the individual, at least those that want to rise, its rewards those that give the greatest effort, but it could be very crushing to those not able or willing to compete. It doesn't work for all, but good luck with getting rid of it, it now has been around for about 360 years, and humanity still has not come up with a better economic system.

    The argument today appears to be what constitutes unequal justice, again is it based on unequal results in the legal system based on actual behavior or because of some 'artificial' prejudicial force that one group has toward another and for some mystical reason refuses to ever die (racism)?  A surefire destroyer of prejudice is a good example, conversely the opposite reaffirms age-old suspicions and mistrusts.

   I am afraid the recent examples of open anarchy, (not protest that could have achieved the same positive results that has happened thus far),  in Minneapolis (500+ destroyed businesses), Seattle (the physical takeover of a portion of a main inner city) and elsewhere will only serve to continue the mistrust between groups in America. 

   I left the U.S. 10 years ago for many reasons, but I do sincerely wish it well and forever root for it.