Additional Guest - Additional charge or refuse?

[Mita127]

Hi everyone! First time post, long time lurker here 🙂 Sorry for the long post! (Previous posts about additional guests were mainly on entire properties rather than a room in my case. Some background: I have a 2 bed 2 bathroom flat, and I Airbnb out the second bedroom and bathroom - here's my link just in case: https://www.airbnb.co.uk/rooms/44039080?source_impression_id=p3_1660306101_B3KjtcL%2FiC4vlPkA The flat is spacious and the room is a double but since I also live here, I personally feel comfortable with just the one guest, which is on the listing i.e. the number of guests is limited to one and there's no option to add to this, and no additional guest charges. 

I have one guest staying with me for a month, he has been here for almost 12 days so he is about a third of the way through his month long stay. He is a recent graduate, and while he is polite and pleasant, he is somewhat "undomesticated" and has not paid attention to the house rules (e.g. cleaning after oneself in the kitchen, not using the shared areas after 10pm etc) which I believe is down to inexperience rather than intentional. He is new to Airbnb.

However, he has just asked me if his ex-flatmate from uni can crash with him in his room for one night and that he is coming over this afternoon! I felt a bit under pressure so I reluctantly agreed, he then said it would actually be 2 nights over the weekend (instead of one night) and that they would be out for the majority of the day so I wouldn't even know that they are there. Then he said a different friend needed a place to crash next week for 3 nights. I explained to him that extra guests is explicitly mentioned in the House Rules, and that Airbnb would not cover me for any issues arising from unregistered guests. There are also additional costs incurred from extra guests, e.g. water, a bit of electricity, possibly use of the kitchen appliances. I'm also a bit concerned that once I say yes, he will ask again to have guests for the remaining 18 days of his stay. Also all the hotels in the area appear to be booked out. So I am not sure what to do. Options are:

1) Simply say no to any additional guests including the one today

2) Say ok to the one coming today but no to any further guests

3) Say yes to the guests he has mentioned AND

4) Charge them for the nights that additional guests are staying, or not?

5) If charging, how much would you charge them per additional guest per night?

Your advice would be much appreciated! 

Thanks all! 

[Kitty-and-Creek0]

@Huma0 

Good for you standing up to rude people. That is uncalled for, disrespectful, and has its roots somewhere else. 

Yes, smoking in a bedroom is a known and common fire hazard.  Damage to furnishings from smoking is also common, especially since we are not set up for smokers. Not to mention having to clean draperies and upholstery. 

I tried IB for awhile, and we had our only iffy guests from that. For us, in this situation, it is better for us to have inquiries and requests. 

We used to accept 4 people, and that was OK until covid. We lowered the limit to 2, when we felt safe about reopening. With 4 we would get unrelated people, folks who did not live together.  Health care people advised that it is an unnecessary risk for everyone, and we understood their point.

We are fortunate that our guests are really respectful of us and the property:  the house, the ranch, the forested acreage and of our concern for their safety. As former first responders we have a pretty good idea of what can happen to good people with excellent intentions, in the wilderness. Most guests are not acquainted first hand with off grid living, septic systems, hauling all our trash to town, and unpaved mountain roads where GPS hasn't a clue. Living out here is very interactive.  Being mindful & resourceful is a constant necessity.  We are also aware that in case of any natural disaster, they are necessarily going to be part of our response plans. We don't ever leave guests alone here, there are too many things that could happen - or quit working - that might mystify them. We spend all our time as hosts working to keep a lid on things so that their stay here is only as much adventure as they can handle. 

[Huma0]

@Kitty-and-Creek0 

Wow, hosting really does sound like a full time job for you. It's amazing how much care you take of your guests. I hope they appreciate it.

I think in a situation like yours especially, it's important to vet guests in order to make sure they know properly understand what they are booking, rather than having some fantasy in their heads about the adventure! 

I never wanted to use IB and only switched it on as my listings were being hidden otherwise (Airbnb was pushing it very heavily at the time). For quite a while, it was fine. I got both good and not so good guests both IB and request booking, but having the three penalty free host cancellations took care of any guests that were clearly a terrible fit. The 48 hour grace period helped too, as you could always ask the guest to cancel. In any case, once I switched entirely to long term hosting it was extremely rare for a guest to IB but I still benefitted from the boost in the searches.

Then something changed. I think it was after the pandemic started. Perhaps it's because long term stays became more common in general, but suddenly many guests started IBing longer stays without sending me any information about themselves, or ignoring my questions, having clearly not read the listing, third party bookings, fake profiles etc. etc. 

After one more bad experience earlier this year with a guest who slipped through the net (I probably would not have accepted her had it been a request booking) I decided to turn it off. This didn't seem to affect my views or bookings at all, so that was a relief. I feel much better now having taken back control over who stays in my home.

Of course, since the Summer Release, bookings have pretty much stopped, so one way to boost my visibility would to be to turn IB back on, but I'm very really reluctant to do so.

[Kitty-and-Creek0]

@Huma0 

The pandemic seems to have made our guests even more grateful for a place to get away, to peace and quiet in safety. We make it clear that we are careful, conscientious, fully vaccinated, and expect them to be as well. This is our full time permanent home. Our guests are of the age that our children and grandchildren would be. Our guests are all of the sort who have respect for their elders. We are fortunate, and we believe that our hard work attracts that good fortune. As you well know, being a host is work. The business of hospitality is a business and we are either in it with all 4 feet, or we are not doing it right. Creek and I have been successfully self employed together for 50 years. Whatever we are selling, we are selling service. Personal service to real people. It takes being resilient, resourceful, compassionate. If we are not ready, willing, and able to do that, to do it excellently, consistently, with heart, we are not cut out for being in business. 

In the distant past we managed a wilderness resort with 12 full sized houses, in the hand built rustic natural materials Wright architectural style. It was challenging. We refurbished and pulled it up to a max 5 star rating in all the travel sites. We made necessary rules and the guest population changed from party, to peaceful, respectful. We raised the rates significantly, so the place showed a healthy profit, while providing superior value to the guests. 

Back to the present tense: we closed our home share hosting here for 2 years, to protect ourselves and our community. It has been very stressful here on our excellent rural health providers.  They are also community members who we care about, and for them it has been quite a marathon.  When covid cases dipped, the rest of us showed up for care that had been postponed in favor of their taking care of the seriously ill. They are so exhausted, every doctor's visit is actually a mutually healing thing. They need us to be really kind, patient, prepared. Telling them how we love and appreciate them really helps. This is a small town and we are all in this together. 

In addition, our small town went through uncomfortable changes these past 2 -1/2 years. Family owned and operated restaurants either closed or re-tooled, as did other retailers. We've not had long term guests, we don't do that. We have advised our guests where to buy food to cook or to go, and what restaurants are open for business, on changing schedules, and staffing challenges. We've all learned. 

IB does not work for us either. People fall in love with the photos, and don't read further, for the most part. As you said, they may have unrealistic expectations.Thus, it is our job to make that fantasy happen for them. We don't reveal how challenging it is for us to live out here, and unless they ask.... the infrastructure is passively there for them. It is like Disneyland. Visitors don't see the works behind the rides, and staff are busy keeping it that way. 

Kitty

[Mita127]

@Huma0 That's a good point about entitlement due to the guests' (incorrect) assumption that since they have paid to rent a space therefore they can behave as they wish. That is likely to be the case with my guest, I can see it's not intentional but just incorrect assumptions about how Airbnb works. He is young and I am sure I was no angel / domestic goddess myself at his age haha. He is turning 21 next week hence the request to have his girl mate / gf stay over for 3 nights, which I do sympathise with, but again, it's not my problem that he didn't read my listing and House Rules properly. Plus it's not like there aren't any other options, I'm in London after all!

[Huma0]

@Mita127 

Exactly. There are plenty of other options, but perhaps they were more expensive or within the same price range but not as nice.

I have noticed that often because they like the look of my listing, the convenient location and the price, guests will choose to overlook the points that they don't like. Seriously, I have hosted to guests who were terrified of cats. Why on earth did they book a listing knowing full well that there were three cats there? I asked one guest why he booked with me (and before that with another cat owner) when he knew his wife had a serious phobia of cats. He just replied, "Because I liked the look of your listing. She'll get used to it."

These things they overlook often include house rules that they have no intention of following or they simply do not think are that important. People who ask for exceptions often don't understand that they are not the only guests that you host. Why should you make an exception for them and not everyone else? Well, they don't think about that. They only think about what THEY need/want. Again, entitlement.

I don't think it's always about age though. Many of my favourite guests have been under 21. I had a 20-year-old student stay with me for two months recently and he was wonderful. He was so considerate and conscientious of house rules. He was one of the rare guests who offered to pay for something he had accidentally damaged. Meanwhile, I've hosted quite a few guests in their late 20s/early 30s who simply will not follow house rules. They think somehow that they are mature and 'know better'. Of course, that's not everyone in that age group, but I've had several of those already this year!

[Huma0]

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@Huma0 wrote:

@Kitty-and-Creek0 

I am not sure that these particular guests felt that empowered over me because of the review process. Perhaps they did. I am not sure. I think it was more a case of being entitled.

---

PS I forgot to say that they didn't leave a review so, again, I don't think it was a case of them holding that over my heads, more the general sense of entitlement and a lack of understanding that the house rules are called 'rules' for a reason.

[Kelly149]

@Mita127 A fib in this case may be your best bet. “I’m so sorry, since you were already counting on it before you asked, but I’ve double, triple checked with both my personal insurance, the condo board, abb, the fire marshal (pick whatever sounds most plausible) and it just is not allowed for a guest to bring around an extra guest for any amount of time. I felt on the spot to say yes, but I shouldn’t have said that. Sorry for going back on the idea. I know that’s disappointing but I’m confident you’ll sort it out and have a great time!”

sound upbeat & confident. You own the place. 

[Mita127]

Hi @Kelly149 

This is a great idea, and thank you so much for your advice! I'm going to include this wording in my listing itself. 

Thanks again! 

[Gwen386]

@Mita127 I would absolutely, unequivocally say NO and I’d also shorten his stay. This is a space you occupy too, and if the extra guest(s) is male, you would really feel uncomfortable. He hasn’t respected your house rules to-date, so in all honesty, he is an unacceptable guest. In this business, you can’t give an inch without someone wanting a mile. Just say NO!!!

[Lorna170]

@Mita127   No.  Just NO.  He is taking advantage as is evidenced by asking about additional friends.  Suggest a local hotel or hostel, and let him know that you may have to cancel the rest of his stay if he insists on having guests.

[Mita127]

Thanks so much everyone! It's been really useful to have your advice and I appreciate the time you took to read and respond to my question! I have taken your advice and told my guest that I cannot accept any additional guests; it is clearly written on the listing and in the House Rules (it's literally the first 2 rules: no parties and no additional guests!).

Now I need to have a mini rant about what happened next! So he had the nerve to challenge me on this when I spoke to him about this, and he said that he's brought in additional guests in previous Airbnbs and it's never been a problem before?! Which I can't quite believe, but then again he's got no reviews on his profile so who knows (this was a red flag when he booked, but I thought I would give him the benefit of the doubt as everyone has to start somewhere with their reviews!) When I mentioned the insurance issue not covering unregistered guests in the event of damage etc, he said that they won't break anything so the Airbnb insurance won't be required! He also said earlier today that I wouldn't even notice the extra guest and they would be out all the time sightseeing etc... but when I came back to the flat this evening, my fridge was filled with his food and wine (he had taken over more than his allocated fridge shelf). Also it was things like raw chicken, marinades and potatoes (i.e. not prepared foods to eat elsewhere) that will NEED to be cooked in my kitchen, thus basically taking over the whole flat - which is the very reason I wanted to limit guests to just one person! And when I said it's also uncomfortable for me to have two male guests here when I'm on my own, he said his other guest who is coming over later in the week for 3 nights is a girl so that shouldn't be a problem! I could see it becomes a slippery slope because once I've said yes to one extra guest, where does it stop?! As @Gwen386 said very accurately: "you can’t give an inch without someone wanting a mile"! I was quite annoyed and baffled that he genuinely felt he was entitled to bring additional guests into my place. So in the end I have told him a flat out "no to all guests" and I could see he is really unhappy about it but at this point, I don't care. Unfortunately the extra visitor who is coming today is already here as the guest "forgot" to check his Airbnb messages, but I've been assured that the additional guest will be leaving tomorrow. Let's see! 

[Huma0]

@Mita127 

Oh dear. 

I only had a similar experience once and it wasn't about visitors/unauthorised guests, but another house rule. It's highly irritating when you get 'back chat' from a guest about house rules that they agreed to. Who cares what they did in other Airbnbs. That is entirely beside the point. Different hosts have different rules. 

Now that you have challenged this guest and he has challenged you back, I wouldn't be too worried about the review as who knows which way it will go. He is taking advantage. 

I'm glad you have now told him a flat out "no". If he continues to break this rule (and any other important ones), I would seriously think about asking this guest to leave. He clearly does not respect you or your rules.

Airbnb CS is a bit of a mess since COVID because they laid off lots of experienced staff and replaced them with outsourced agents who have been poorly trained, so I am not sure how things would go right now... However, in the past, I have had very good support from CS in terms of guests breaking house rules and, the one time I wanted a then to ask a guest to leave, it was to do with having unauthorised overnight visitors and they were completely on my side. I'm not saying that will happen with you if you reach out to CS about this should the guest continue to flout this rule, as CS is quite hit and miss now depending on the agent assigned, but I have found that, if you have this clearly stated in your rules (which you do) they back you up.

[Mita127]

@Huma0 Yes the "back chat" was highly irritating! He has basically broken about half of only 11 fairly simple House Rules so far, some from day 1: leaving lights and fan on when he's left the room, doesn't clear up after himself in the kitchen without me reminding him, hogging the shared space after 10pm, keeps his shoes on in his room, technically doesn't smoke in the flat but still stinks of weed from smoking outside, and now it's unauthorised guests and they're chatting loudly and it's past 11pm. So it's starting to grate on me. I had a quick read of your House Rules in your listing and I like that it's specific so I'm definitely going to beef mine up! And the "easter egg" question too! 

Initially I was probably trying to be over-accommodating because of the review aspect but it's gone beyond that now. I'm sure he will leave a bad review and ruin my 5* rating but I don't care anymore. I also feel I ought to leave him an honest review so other hosts know what to watch out for, and I'm aware there are lots of posts already about this topic so I will check those out! If there are any good threads you recommend reading up on about this then do let me know 🙂 

Thanks for letting me know about the Airbnb CS! 

[Huma0]

@Mita127 

My house rules are very long and detailed and I often wonder if it's too much, but I've added to them over time based on experience. I like your rules. You don't have too many, but you seem to have covered the points that are important to you. Guests are probably more likely to read the whole of your version than mine! 

I have found that it has helped overall to have specific rules, the Easter egg question and insist on guests answering that. But, the problem is that, every now and again, you will get a guest who chooses to completely ignore some or several of them, regardless of the fact of whether they have confirmed beforehand that they agree to them or not.

There comes a point when you just have to forget about the retaliatory review and put your foot down. 

I have found that rule breakers fall into two categories:

1. The guest who is probably just preoccupied with other things and doesn't even realise. I have one of these right now. I had to gently remind her to please turn off her bedroom lights when she goes out for the whole evening. She apologised and said she would be more mindful. Let's see, but I believe her.

2. The guest who thinks they can 'cherry pick' from your house rules and that they aren't set in stone. You have one of those right now. The more you make exceptions, the more they take advantage. When you remind them, they either ignore it or, worse, they back chat because they genuinely think that rules do not apply to them. Like Boris Johnson.

Nip it in the bud as fast as you can!

[Gillian166]

if you make sure you keep communicating via the msg box, he might threaten to leave you a bad review in there, and bingo, that's grounds to have it removed. 

or, he might be clueless about reviews if he is a noob. Although you mentioned he claimed to have stayed with other hosts before? did he get such poor reviews he started a new profile?

either way, be sure to wait until the last minute to leave him a review. 

I learned from this forum about the Easter Egg trick and i don't insist on people responding to it, for me it's a just a way to know if a guest bothered to read the house rules. Our cottages are on our farm, but guests aren't in our space so it's a very different situation.