Additional Guest - Additional charge or refuse?

[Mita127]

Hi everyone! First time post, long time lurker here 🙂 Sorry for the long post! (Previous posts about additional guests were mainly on entire properties rather than a room in my case. Some background: I have a 2 bed 2 bathroom flat, and I Airbnb out the second bedroom and bathroom - here's my link just in case: https://www.airbnb.co.uk/rooms/44039080?source_impression_id=p3_1660306101_B3KjtcL%2FiC4vlPkA The flat is spacious and the room is a double but since I also live here, I personally feel comfortable with just the one guest, which is on the listing i.e. the number of guests is limited to one and there's no option to add to this, and no additional guest charges. 

I have one guest staying with me for a month, he has been here for almost 12 days so he is about a third of the way through his month long stay. He is a recent graduate, and while he is polite and pleasant, he is somewhat "undomesticated" and has not paid attention to the house rules (e.g. cleaning after oneself in the kitchen, not using the shared areas after 10pm etc) which I believe is down to inexperience rather than intentional. He is new to Airbnb.

However, he has just asked me if his ex-flatmate from uni can crash with him in his room for one night and that he is coming over this afternoon! I felt a bit under pressure so I reluctantly agreed, he then said it would actually be 2 nights over the weekend (instead of one night) and that they would be out for the majority of the day so I wouldn't even know that they are there. Then he said a different friend needed a place to crash next week for 3 nights. I explained to him that extra guests is explicitly mentioned in the House Rules, and that Airbnb would not cover me for any issues arising from unregistered guests. There are also additional costs incurred from extra guests, e.g. water, a bit of electricity, possibly use of the kitchen appliances. I'm also a bit concerned that once I say yes, he will ask again to have guests for the remaining 18 days of his stay. Also all the hotels in the area appear to be booked out. So I am not sure what to do. Options are:

1) Simply say no to any additional guests including the one today

2) Say ok to the one coming today but no to any further guests

3) Say yes to the guests he has mentioned AND

4) Charge them for the nights that additional guests are staying, or not?

5) If charging, how much would you charge them per additional guest per night?

Your advice would be much appreciated! 

Thanks all! 

[Mita127]

Hi again! 

Just to update everyone in case you're interested: the unauthorised additional guest left today, or technically yesterday (Sunday) - a day later than promised but I figured maybe his friend couldn't get back to Exeter due to the train strikes on Saturday. Ok whatever, he's gone now but I was more pissed off because my guest was being dishonest and insisted his friend did not stay an extra night more than the one night I agreed to, even though I heard more than one person go to the bathroom in the morning and also I saw them both together coming back to the flat from their walk when I was leaving the flat. My guest must really think I'm stupid / born yesterday.  I don't know why he just couldn't have said "Sorry, he couldn't get back because of the train strike, it won't happen again" - that would have been preferable to the lies. Also, thinking about the initial conversation, when my guest was telling me on Friday that his friend was coming, the friend must have already been on his way here since he was arriving much sooner (hours!) compared to the time it usually takes to travel to London from Exeter. So presumably my guest had already told his friend to come and stay before even asking me. I remember my guest said something along the lines of "I just thought I should let you know that my friend is coming to crash the night here" as if he was doing ME a favour by letting me know some random dude was going to be sleeping in my flat and will be turning up in an hour. And he seemed genuinely shocked when I said no? LOL.

Anyway the guest is clearly in a huff because I'm standing by my House Rules and not letting him do whatever he wants, so he's made up some BS excuse that he needs to shorten his stay (he's halfway through his month stay here) and will be checking out in a couple of days due to something back at his uni. Conveniently his internship that is located close to my flat no longer appears to be relevant. He must really think I am stupid. Anyway, he asked me if I would refund him for the nights he hasn't stayed. I told him I'm fine to do that, although I am not familiar with the refund process as I've not done it before. I'm sure if he amends his booking, Airbnb to tell me to do something I guess! Anyway, I'm secretly quite relieved he is checking out early. I am eagerly awaiting the reviews process haha. 

[Huma0]

@Mita127 

Even though you've lost money unless you can rebook the nights (and I assume it's too late to rebook some of them), I think it's for the best that this guest is going. Personally, I love it when a guest I am close to kicking out volunteers to go of their own accord!

Sometimes these types of guests, i.e. the rule breakers, don't even leave a review because they would rather you didn't leave one either. I don't know if they think you can't leave one if they don't (not true, obviously) or just don't want to prompt you. Anyway, let's see and keep us updated about that.

RE shortening the stay, obviously do not cancel it yourself. Either the guest cancels, in which case you will be due payment according to the cancellation policy, which I think in this case means for the full stay as the long term cancellation policy should apply. You can then calculate the refund and use the resolution centre to send him the money, but I would be cautious about this, as he could still contact Airbnb CS with some bogus story and request another refund, which they might deduct from future payouts. I know that sounds unlikely, but I've heard of this happening and CS is really hit and miss these days.

A better option I think would be to amend the trip dates. Either you or the guest can send an alteration request to amend the check out date and then the other party just has to accept it. The system will automatically recalculate the price. Just make sure that the price is correct, i.e. if you offer a monthly discount, perhaps take that into account. The guest shouldn't really benefit from that discount now that they are only staying two weeks. However you might not want to complicate things if you just want to see the back of him! 

[Mita127]

@Huma0 Yes I haven’t touched the booking, mostly because I don’t know how to amend it since I’ve not had to do it before, haha. I asked the guest to amend on their side and that I would wait to hear back from Airbnb Support. I actually have the strict refund policy selected on stays longer than 28 days so my guest is not even entitled to any refund at all but I’ve let him know that this is a good will gesture on my part that I have allowed a refund for the portion he is not staying. Maybe I’m being too nice but I’m just keen to see him gone tbh. 

I agree with you that he’s unlikely to leave any review at all but let’s see! 

[Huma0]

@Mita127 

I totally get it. I would do the same and have done so. I had one girl who booked for two months but ended up leaving after 2.5 weeks. She absolutely could not comprehend what a cancellation policy even was or that she'd made any kind of commitment. She said that if she had to pay for additional nights, she would stay for those nights.

She was so bat sh*t crazy in so many ways and extremely painful to host (way worse than your current guest, if you can believe it) so I was more than happy to refund her just to get her out. I honestly could not imagine coping with her for two months, so I would have had to throw her out anyway, which would also have involved refunding, so I thought it was better to cut my losses. She then actually changed her mind and wanted to come back, but there was no way I was going to let that happen!

RE the date alteration, you do not need to get CS involved and I would advise against it as they can sometimes screw up and make a simple situation more complicated. If the guest has made the alteration request, you should receive a notification or email bout it and, if all looks correct with the dates and prices, you just have to accept it. As I assume your payout has already been issued, this refund will then show as a negative amount on your transaction page and will be deducted from your next payout/s.

[Mita127]

@Huma0 Wow I'm always amazed at how completely clueless people are, as in they don't even READ the information that is literally in front of them. I copied and pasted the House Rules in the Airbnb chat yesterday to reiterate the "no unauthorised guests" rule but he didn't even acknowledge it. As @Kitty-and-Creek0 said "People fall in love with the photos, and don't read further". As evidenced by the guest asking what time he needs to check out, AND can he can leave all his luggage in the room until 4pm AND can he can hold on to the keys until 4pm. FFS. Obviously I said no to everything. 

Even just today, I have been out for the majority of the day. I got back to various lights on in rooms not occupied, and my kitchen that has clearly been used but no effort has been made to wipe the oil/food stains on the cooker, tiles and floor, plus random utensils and a plate are left around and not in the dishwasher (and cleaning sprays and wipes are freely available on the kitchen counter). I don't add a cleaning fee as I expect guests to clear up after themselves but I am now second guessing this! And right now, he is doing a load of laundry at 11pm, despite my rule of not using the shared space after 10pm. 

I know he's not the worst guest ever but it's so incredibly annoying having someone so inconsiderate, and treat your place as if it was a hotel. 

Thanks everyone for allowing me to vent. This space is rather therapeutic haha. 

[Huma0]

@Mita127 

Yes, it is rather therapeutic, which is why I spend way more time here than I should! People who do not host may find some of our stories amusing, but they will never really understand...

Yes, your guest is not the worst case scenario, but he is super annoying non the less. Maybe he will leave a bad review, maybe he won't leave a review at all, but it gets to the point where you have to put your food down and just not worry about that for the sake of your own sanity.

[Mita127]

@Huma0 

Hi all! Bit more of an update! So I had to get AirBnb Support involved as my booking policy for longer bookings states: "the first 30 nights are non-refundable but you’ll get back every night after that" so my guest is not automatically entitled to any refund of his stay as it was for 30 nights, and the host then needs to explicitly authorise Airbnb to process any refund. 

Initially, I HAD agreed to the refund request as a goodwill gesture and also wanting to get rid of the guest asap, but at the time, I didn't know the state my guest room and bathroom would be left in. I would have been fine with the refund IF the room and bathroom been left in a reasonable condition upon checkout... I don't charge a cleaning fee as I expect guests to at least be mindful of cleaning up after themselves, and this is mentioned in my listing. Well I was in for a bit of a shock!  I saw the room and bathroom today after the guest's departure, and I was disgusted and disappointed. This is the worst state it's ever been in, and I've had messy guests before!  I have taken photos and videos for evidence in case this matter requires further dispute resolution. To give an idea of the state it was left in:
- Multiple scratch marks on the walls near the desk, and stains and discolouration on the carpet in the bedroom. It looks as if something was spilled on the carpet. This will likely need to be professionally cleaned, or replaced entirely if the stains cannot be removed.
- Every single table in the bedroom has scratches, marks and debris from cups, food and tobacco, despite my strict no smoking rule
- A vape pen cartridge was left, further indicating rule breaking about no smoking indoors
- The window was left wide open, during a prolongued spell of torrential rain (there were local flood warnings). The window sill and bed and bedding were soaking wet, and a lamp still attached to the mains also got wet from the rain. This is a huge safety and security issue, as it could have potentially caused an electrical shock or fire. 
- The bath was very dirty and there were empty toilet rolls tossed on the floor in the bathroom despite a bin situated right next to the sink.
- He left expiring food in the fridge after he checked out, so I now need to deep clean the entire fridge as it stinks. 
- He took an international multi-plug from the bedroom, which is often used by my other guests so rather irritating and inconvenient.
- Aside from the more aggregious breaking of the rules on smoking (including the super strong marajuana smells) and multiple unauthorised guests, there were also persistant breaking of other House Rules already mentioned on my previous posts: not cleaning up after oneself after using the shared space; leaving all lights and appliances on even when he was not in the apartment; use of the shared space after the 10pm curfew. 

So I feel a bit guilty that I initially said ok to his refund request and then changed my mind once I saw the state he had left the room. However I was furious at this point, and I contacted Airbnb Support immediately and said that I no longer authorise the refund. They were fine about this and seemed supportive of me. I was so cross because I had gone out of my way to make the guest feel welcome (early check-in, made him food, etc), and he has essentially abused his position as a guest and he definitely does not feel bad about the way he has treated my home. In addition, I had to turn down a couple of new booking requests because the room needs SO much more time to sort out the mess he left, so there is an additional element of loss of income as well as the cost of damage incurred. So under the circumstances, I do feel I am within my rights to uphold my original condition of not allowing a refund. 

Now he has messaged me via Airbnb questioning his refund request as he received a message from Airbnb Support saying they could not get authorisation from me. Thoughts on most appropriate response? 

a) Nothing - Ignore him as sometimes engaging with someone makes it worse? 

b) Respond to him and give an explanation about my non-cancellation policy, his rule breaking and damage?

As advised, I will wait until the final day of the 14 day window to write his review (unless he writes one first) and I plan to give him 1-star as I genuinely do not wish this experience on any other hosts. Is that too harsh?! 

[Huma0]

@Mita127 

Sorry to hear about that. Just when you thought you didn't have to deal with this guest any more! 

As you already told the guest you would refund him, I don't think you should just ignore him. I would go the second route. Just tell him the truth.

Explain that the cancellation policy that he agreed to when booking does not entitle him to any refund but that you were willing to give him a partial refund as a goodwill gesture. However, at that point, you were not expecting to find the room in such a terrible state. Tell him that there were numerous damages, evidence of smoking and that a great deal of extra cleaning was required, which has not only cost you money but resulted in you having to turn down other bookings. 

If you feel that this is the type of person to challenge you and that he might contact Airbnb with some kind of spurious complaint/accusation, then you could also add that you already submitted photos of the state of the room to Airbnb and that they agreed that no refund should be offered. OR, you could leave this part out and wait to see first if he tries to challenge you. If he does, then this is the point where you could respond with the above and tell him your decision is final.

Because I have not personally experienced this person, it's hard to say whether engaging with him would make things worse. You will need to make a judgement call on that one. But, perhaps it's better not to go into too much detail. Just keep it to the point and factual.

I don't know. Perhaps I am wrong. I haven't had this exact situation. The one guest that I have had to evict left the room a terrible mess with tonnes of stuff left behind (I mean it filled numerous bin bags), which meant that I had to spend hours dealing with that before I could even clean the room, but there was no permanent damage. I had already agreed to refund her remaining nights and luckily had a new booking, so I decided to let it go. I wanted nothing more to do with this girl, but I did take photos in case of any further issues. However, in your case it is different because you have lost other bookings. I was lucky as I already had a repeat guest waiting in the wings (she had missed initially because she enquired too late) and I was able to get it ready in time.

 @Kitty-and-Creek0 @Stephanie365  @Gillian166 @Richard531 @Kelly149 @Lorna170 - what are your thoughts?

[Mita127]

@Huma0 

Thanks so much for your input! Yes I think you're right, I should respond to him. I will keep it to the point and factual, and what you've mentioned is super helpful for drafting my response! 

Re: your experience of the messy guest, while the multiple bin bags of rubbish is totally outrageous, I suppose the only good thing was that there was no permanent damage to your room. Unfortunately for me, the wall and carpet have definitely been damaged and would need more than a clean 😞 This is partly why I didn't want to refund the guest, as some of the money from the remaining booking will have to go towards the repairs. 

Thanks again, both for your helpful reply and also allowing me to vent 🙂 

[Huma0]

@Mita127 

You're welcome. A guest that causes damages most definitely does not merit a goodwill refund. Think about the type of person who behaves like this. Do you think they would refund you if the tables were turned? Nope. 

As for my bag lady guest, no she did not cause physical damage, just a lot of extra cleaning, but she left scars on my psyche! This is the one I wrote about in the link I posted earlier in this thread, i.e. 'condom girl'. Actually, Airbnb CS told me that I did not need to refund the rest of her stay if I asked her to leave because she had broken my house rules, but I just wanted rid of her asap. If she had caused damage, plus lost me bookings, there is no way I would have refunded her.

She never left a review for me. Even though she was crazy, she at least had the sense not to push me further once she was told to leave (by Airbnb - I got them to tell her).

[Lorna170]

@Mita127   If you feel that this is the type of person to challenge you and that he might contact Airbnb with some kind of spurious complaint/accusation, then you could also add that you already submitted photos of the state of the room to Airbnb .  DEFINATELY do this ... for real.

This guest is clueless and a total PITA that should not be given stars for anything.  I would definately stress the fact that he did not abide by your house rules, brought multiple extra guests into your home, and did not respect you in the least.  The fact that he had the audacity to state that "other AirBnBs have allowed this" is total BS.  He is a terrible guest, and he probably bullied previous hosts into accepting his behavior.

No Refund.  No Stars.  Simple "Not a good guest, will not host again" review.  If you choose to cancel the remaining days (or just ONE day of the rest of the booking) be sure that cancel with the he made me uncomfortable reason. Block him.

Let's hope that AirBnB CS does not give him a FULL refund, which is what he will be after next.

[Stephanie365]

@Mita127 

This would be my response...

"Dear Guest,

You are receiving a refund in accordance with the cancellation policy you agreed to when you booked. Have a blessed day."

And then I would block him. You don't need any more drama from this jerk.

[Gillian166]

oh my, there's a lot of info here. Glad you have him out!

Agree with the others, you don't need to refund him, but because we know CS could rule against you i'd consider offering him a refund for any of his unused days that you are able to rebook.

Explain you've taken photos of the room as he left it (and smart of you to remember to do so!), cite the various house rules broken, and how many days you've lost already having to do extra cleaning. The carpets alone are enough to make me say : NO REFUND!  But have a look on youtube at various carpet cleaning vids, you might be able to get some stains out with a little persistence, and if you do have to spend hours cleaning out those stains, it needs to come out of this guys' "refund". 

honestly i'd still give him a small refund, this might be enough to stop him going into Full Lying Guest mode (let's hope he isn't aware this might work). I only say this because we hear so many stories here where some CS rep gives the guest a full refund, even for the days they stayed. 

+1 to what @Lorna170  wrote. Let him know that you've already sumbitted photos/video of the state of his room and bathroom, including stained carpet and smoking damage, to Airbnb to put on the case file.  (so glad to have this forum with so much experience   shared)

[Susan990]

@Mita127   What I do to counter the don't read the house rules issue is I print it out in full directly from the Listing, place in a  small Dollar Tree frame presented to guest in the space either on the wall or on a frame stand on the counter.   Print font size at least 14 pts  bold italics.   This creates a written notice which protects you legally .  My 2 guesthouses are solo traveler and have not had any problems with this issue  ever since.

[Mita127]

@Susan990 Haha yes I'm definitely going to have to do this!