BREAKING POINT: when you decide that guests just need to LEAVE?

[Huma0]

I know that's a pretty vague question, but I was just wondering...

I mostly host long term stays (28 days or more) but also occasionally fill gaps in between with stays between 10 and 27 days. I have found it more common to resort to the latter recently due to all the last minute COVID (or non COVID) related cancellation and date changes I have been experiencing in the past couple of months.

With short term stays, if a guest is a bit of a nightmare, it might seem wiser to just sit it out and count down the days until they leave. But, even then, I feel some guests are just not worth the hassle. There are certain circumstances where I feel I would rather face the confrontation, awkwardness and retaliatory review than continue to host that person/s.

I'd love to know from other hosts who have faced a 'breaking point'. What was it and how did you handle it? How did it turn out?

[Huma0]

PS I am not necessarily talking about guests that are trashing your place or otherwise breaking very major house rules. It could be someone who is driving you insane with their demands/complaints/has completely ignored what was mentioned in the listing and house rules and expects you to change everything to satisfy them.

[Clara116]

@Huma0 oh I'd get rid of them asap deal with the repercussions after. I believe that what we permit we promote! Guests/people will do what we allow them to get away with. If someone is "driving you insane with demand/complaints... - I'd have a sit down and tell them straight out this is not working out! Ask them can we make this work out? It might surprise you, sometimes they don't realize they are being complete idiots until you tell them clearly with examples of what they are doing ---without much emotion if possible.

I have my cottage out back. And only really had to do such with one guest...but it worked and turned out fine. She thought she could come when she wanted to arrive, ignore my message on where to park, time of meeting me for a quick hello and so she arrived early over an hour and I still had one thing to put in the cottage.....she was in the shower before we noticed a car parked in the street out front instead of in the driveway that is private for the cottage out back. I went out there told her boyfriend to move the car please and that I wanted to talk with his girlfriend and I'd wait on the patio for her. She came out from having used the shower and I said "Looks like we've gotten off to a bad start"! You ignored my messages and are early....which she snapped, "Other hosts don't mind!", I said, I am not other hosts. And what you see is what you get, the cottage wasn't completely ready but that doesn't seem to matter now. She said sorry. I said, are we good now? Yes, she replied kindly......Turned out to be a good guests but I'd not host again just because of her entitled attitude. It was scary at first having to stand strong with my house rules but I was glad I did it. Perhaps she will reconsider the next hosts too. I don't look the other way and allow stuff, cause they will do it again and again until someone stands up and says NOPE not here, not now. good luck, keep us posted

You can do whatever you need to do, esp. with the crazies Huma!

Blessings, Clara

[Huma0]

@Clara116 

Thank you and well done with the way you handled that situation.

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@Clara116 wrote:

I don't look the other way and allow stuff, cause they will do it again and again until someone stands up and says NOPE not here, not now.

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I believe you are absolutely right. Years ago, I hosted the most demanding, rude and entitled couple for eight days. I bent over backwards trying to make them happy but, in hindsight, I don't know why I bothered. They were determined to be miserable and find fault and had no respect for me or my house rules, nor for other guests. Maybe they felt they could get away with it partly because I was younger than them, I don't know. They were going to leave me a horrible review/ratings regardless.

I vowed then that I would never let any guests treat me like that and disrespect me in my own home ever again and I haven't. The only guest who came close was evicted. Of course, with hosting you do have to let a few little things slide. I certainly don't want to be nagging guests all the time, but rudeness is not acceptable. To my mind, ignoring check in times and showing up very early is a form of rudeness.

Then there's barking orders at the host, openly dismissing them when reminded of house rules or otherwise using a rude or aggressive tone. Luckily I've not encountered too often and only once recently. In the past, I would have bit my tongue, but now I will calmly, politely, but firmly remind the guest that speaking to me in that tone is unacceptable. So far, I've found this to work very well!

[Clara116]

@Huma0 Right on that's exactly what I'm thinking! 

It shouldn't be hard to make sure people respect other people...but today seems the biggest challenge happening. 

I'm so disappointed in so many people that have become cult followers of evil and forgotten about kindness and love. 

Anyway glad we are in this together! 

Standing strong with you and my other host friends and buddies.

[Sarah977]

@Huma0  I think the error of hosts bending over backwards to try to please demanding, entitled, rude guests can't be stressed enough. 

I'm not a psychologist, but I have had quite a bit of experience with narcissists in my own family, and one thing I have learned is that these people are so used to getting their own way through intimidation, whether subtle or overt, that they end up having no respect for others and view kindness as weakness. The more you acquiece to their demands, the more they demand and the less they respect you.

They aren't used to others standing up to them, and when you do, an interesting thing tends to happen. Instead of becoming more aggressive, as one might expect, they realize you can't be pushed around, that you aren't afraid of them or to speak your mind, and they suddenly have respect for you and usually back off and change their ways, at least in the short term.

[Huma0]

@Sarah977 

Yes, I think I am coming to learn this, although it has taken me too long! I was brought up to be 'nice' and also honest (my father was very big on that) so I wrongly assumed that the vast majority of people would behave in the same way.

You know, there's this whole, "Do unto others..." thinking, which is what I always subscribed to. However, you are right that some people will behave worse the more kindly you treat them and hard medicine is sometimes required.

After the other night, when I gave the young man a telling off for being rude, he has been super polite and friendly. Only time will tell (let's see when the review comes), but it seems that, rather than resenting being set those boundaries, he almost seems to appreciate them.

[Sarah977]

@Huma0  My youngest daughter is like that, and while she can be  really sweet a lot of the time, it seems no one can ever live up to her standards, and she doesn't realize how hurtful her words and tone of delivery can be.

This behavior started in her teens- she was delightful as a child, almost always happy and full of fun. But as the baby of the family, with 5 years difference between her and the next oldest, and 10 years between her and the oldest, I realized it wasn't hard for her to be a happy child- everyone was always easy on her. But even as a child, she was quick to anger, but also quick to get over it. And moody. 

I used to try to pussyfoot around her as a teenager, and ignore her being rude, but when she pushed me over the edge and I let her know in no uncertain terms that her behavior wouldn't be tolerated, oh, she became so sweet and easy to get along with for several days afterwards, until she slid back into what is essentially part of her personality that she apparently needs to be aware of and work hard to overcome.

She still can never bring herself to say sorry- even her partner, who's a really nice guy, told me she has never apologized to him, even when she is aware she has said or done something hurtful, but same thing, she will be really loving after getting called out for it, but it isn't a lasting change.

[Huma0]

@Sarah977 

Your description of your daughter reminds me a lot of my brother, only he was the older sibling. He was the first grandchild on my mother's side of the family and so got a lot of fuss and attention until I came along and he had to share some of it, which he wasn't happy about.

I gave my mother such a hard time during labour that she was in hospital for a week. My brother, who was still a toddler at the time was very resentful about her absence. I think my mother felt terribly guilty about it. He was also a little bit sickly as an infant, which made them fuss over him more.

Even as a small child, I noticed differences in how we were treated. That's not to say I wasn't loved and cherished, but I wasn't coddled in the same way. The rules were different. Back then, if you had been naughty, it wasn't unusual to be made to stand in the corner until you were ready to say sorry. I learnt pretty quickly that it was no fun to stay in the corner and much easier to apologise. My brother was stubborn as a mule though and my parents would eventually take pity and let him leave the corner without a word of apology.

This behaviour carries on into adult life. We were brought up by the same parents in the same home and are very close in age, but my brother still cannot stand to apologise. I long ago stopped trying to disagree with him about anything. I just let it slide because there is no point. He will never, ever admit he is wrong, can be terribly judgemental and is always bullying my mother. I love him but I really do not respect this aspect of his personality.

[Elaine701]

@Huma0

Sometimes I think it's just that they aren't hosts, and can't possibly understand the challenges hosts face. 

For example, the bedroom thing. For every two guests you get one bedroom (at that cheap low season price).  But when they show up with more, even if they know that rule, they'll argue "what's the difference? It costs you the same whether we have 1 person and 1 bedroom or 8 persons and all of the bedrooms? ".

They just don't realise that every bed, every bedroom, every incremental use of the property incurs more cleaning, laundry, and frankly, 4 people consume more than 4x1, because they socialise more, stay up later, using more heat, electricity and so-on. 

Many guests just don't have a clue, and just assume you're just trying to gouge them. It's worth trying to explain sometimes, but often, they've already made up their mind.

But then they discover that everything just seems to work without a care... Like magic. And the host doesn't nag, in fact, really nice and easy going. Then they tend to forget about the extra 100 bucks. 

We are after all, firstly in the hospitality business. That's really what they're paying for. 

[Huma0]

@Elaine701 

I agree with everything you've written above. I guess I have occasionally experienced the same when a guest had booked a room but then wants a second guest to join them. In the majority of cases, the guests have no problem with the extra person fee but some cannot seem to understand why they should pay more when they are staying in the same room. Of course, they don't notice that they are using extra towels, taking extra showers, doing more cooking, generally creating more mess. Yes, we are in the hospitality business so if we do what we do well, the guests will forget about that extra fee and feel like they got good value.

However, it's not that sort of issue that I'm referring to here, but more the guests who drive you to the end of your tether, the ones that make you question why you chose to be in the hospitality business in the first place and when you feel that no amount of money in the world would be enough to make you host them again!

I've had a few guests who were super annoying (sometimes you need really need a poker face when hosting a homeshare) messy, noisy, breaking things all the time or ignoring several house rules, but only a few incidences where I've desperately wanted the guests to leave.

1. The couple I mentioned to @Clara116 above. I cannot describe how truly awful they were without writing an essay, but the other guests staying described them as "the most negative people I have ever met," and "simply vile" respectively. I put up with them because I was still green, but if it happened now, they would be out on their backsides without a shadow of a doubt.

2. Crazy 'condom girl': https://community.withairbnb.com/t5/Hosting/Condom-Girl-AKA-My-Weirdest-Guest/m-p/1223607#M294344

Evicted.

3. Totally insane, unhinged and extremely needy guest who luckily decided herself to go early but then wanted to come back. No way. I won't go into all the details (another essay) but this young lady was so clingy, she actually used to wait outside the bathroom for me so I couldn't escape!

Now, I know you are all about weeding out these nightmare guests so that they never end up staying. Were there any red flags?

1. Not when they booked. Nice, sane sounding message and loads of positive reviews. The red flags started appearing later in the correspondence. I guess I could have cancelled, but it wasn't IB and I didn't want to be penalised. I had no idea how bad it was going to get though.

2. Yes, potentially, but nothing major and no indication of what kind of crazy I would be dealing with.

3. None at all until the day of arrival when she messaged me to let me know she was coming three hours ahead of the check in time, to which of course I said no. It was only when she arrived that I realised she was out of her mind.

[Mark116]

@Huma0  Out of hundreds of people, there has only been one guest who I considered evicting/cancelling during their stay. 

She registered for 2 and came with 3 [this was when we had an extra guest fee] and ultimately had SIX people in the apartment.  One of her unregistered guests urinated on the basement door [this is still unbelievable to me but I saw him do it] .  She set off the fire alarm.  One of her unregistered guests knocked over the giant flower pot on the steps and, just left it there, as if we wouldn't notice or realize who did it.  After they left we could see they siphoned out almost 32 oz of body wash, and 16 oz each of shampoo and conditioner, left the place strewn with garbage and stole or destroyed and hid a faux fur throw.  

*Her profile was filled in and her communication was decent in the beginning, but as time went on, it became clear that she either didn't read anything or didn't process it.  When she told us she would be delayed by a day, we somewhat tried to get her to cancel as it was clear by that time that there was a high potential for problems, but we didn't try hard enough.  I wish in hindsight I had offered her a full refund even though it would have been a cancellation within 1 or 2 days.  I would still have my throw, my flower pot would be undamaged and I would not have lived through that incredibly, horribly stressful long weekend.

[Huma0]

@Mark116 

That does sound very stressful!

Guests who ignore basic rules like booking for the correct number of people are a no-go in my mind. I have a different set up I guess, so maybe other hosts would let it slide whereas I would not.

It's so difficult though, because the red flags are not always obvious prior to the guest checking in.

There are plenty of hosts who post here on the CC saying that it is always the host's fault for not vetting properly, but even when you vet carefully (and I believe I do), a few still slip through the net because there are no warning signs until it is too late. I think we should all give each other a bit more slack!

[Laura2592]

@Huma0 I've had a few I either convinced to cancel or insisted that Airbnb cancel but only one I wanted to evict. She was throwing a Bachelorette party and lied over and over about her guest numbers and purpose. She gave us our worst scores ever but a decent forward facing review. The only real reason I did not stop the stay was because I was out of town and my husband did not want to have to do it himself lol. This is how I found out that Airbnb was very unhelpful in enforcement of their own no party rule. If anyone pulled this again I would not hesitate to end the stay. Luckily she cleaned up decently and nothing more than minor damage was done.  

[Huma0]

@Laura2592 

Yep, I've convinced quite a few guests to cancel or got Airbnb to cancel and only ever evicted one. However, there are a few others that I've seriously thought about asking to leave. 

I've encountered two types of liars, those that are good at it and those that are constantly slipping up. The trouble with the 'good liars' is it's hard to spot them until it is too late and they are in your listing!! 

I definitely experienced more of them earlier on when I was mostly hosting short term stays. There was one couple who I checked in, but didn't see for the rest of their stay because I was away on a business trip. They didn't respond to any messages asking if all was okay or if they needed anything. Another guest (long term) informed me that they had people over to party and were smoking weed INSIDE (both against my house rules). I guess they feared they would get caught out because their review was basically a list of lies, e.g. WiFi not working (it was), fridge not working (it was) etc. etc.