Dealing with dishonesty/retaliation in a host review

[Julie4477]

Hello.  Thanks in advance for advice.  My husband and I are a clean, quiet couple in our late 50s - we're not exactly wild partying types, if that makes sense.  We're fastidiously clean, and we've never had any issues as AirBnB guests, but we had difficulty with a host recently for the first time.  We were visiting our son  of town - he lives in a small apartment near this host's unit - we told her the purpose of our trip was to visit him.  In any event,  she had four pages of rules/house manuals (no prostitutes, no parties, keep outside lights off so as not to bother neighbors, etc. etc. ??), some of which contradicted one another --  and she somehow felt that we violated one of her house rules by not asking her permission in advance before inviting our son to come visit us on the property before we went out to supper (we had introduced him to her when he dropped us off on our arrival and he was included in her property tour -- we really didn't know it could cause an issue for him to stop by).  I apologized to the host, explained I was very confused, and asked if he could visit going forward and she said no because it violated "city law" - made no sense, but we just decided to let it go and really minimized our time at her property.  This host seemed very stressed out and came across as a person who loves to argue, if that makes sense?  Before we left, we made extra sure to clean up, put everything away just as found, etc. etc.   Well, she wrote a raving ranting negative review about me stating that I was the worst guest she'd ever had, that I am a disturbed person, that I had been rude to her, had broken house rules, left the unit dirty, ??? etc. etc.   Basically just a defamatory rant?  I decided to reply politely and simply, in hopes that the essence of her review will be apparent to future hosts that read it.  But I'm concerned about adequately protecting myself as a guest from her tirade?  I left a polite constructive brief review myself - I acknowledged that we had a miscommunication about house rules and thought it would help other guests to know this doesn't seem like a good property for visiting family members.  Anything else I should do??  TIA.

[Kate867]

@Julie4477    just as you don’t get perfect guests.. you often don’t get perfect Hosts.  I am very sorry this happened to you as you have many good reviews.  Most Hosts will read the good reviews and ignore the one bad one.  Personally, I would not have had an issue with you staying at our Airbnb.  It is not unreasonable at all to have family visit, especially If it is one of your main reasons for booking.  Also, cleaning fees are added in either as an extra or included in nightly charges.  They are cleaning fees, not tidying fees… if you left tidy, but reasonable cleaning such as vacuuming, dusting, wiping, mopping needed, then that should be covered.  Your  reply was polite, and more than adequate, so please don’t stress!   Very welcome to stay at my place in the U.K. if you ever feel like it.

[Mark116]

@Julie4477  Your host may have changed the listing since you stayed, but I found the notice of no extra guests to be right in the first section, not even under house rules, so it's quite prominent.  Many hosts have a similar rule of no one but registered guests on the property without advance permission.

That said, it sounds like from the tone of your host's review that something rubbed her the wrong way from the beginning.

I wouldn't worry too much about her review as it is ranty and your response is very measured and business-like.  You may find going forward that more hosts will question you about any guests you intend to have, but I would imagine that will be the extent of any repercussions from her review.

[Kim866]

@Julie4477 

I am so sorry you had this experience.  As a host I really don't get the "no other people visiting" thing.  We often have guests in town to visit family and we encourage them to show their family our listing.  We call it "FREE ADVERTISING" ---and it works!!!!!  

I would not worry too much about the review--one bad in a group of several good shouldn't affect much.  I know it would not make a difference to us at all!  So if you ever want to come to Tennessee look us up!

[Mark116]

@Kim866  I can only speak for myself.  But we added the 'no unauthorized visitors' to our rules after someone snuck in a 5th guest, over our limit, and then lied about it.  We have it there to prevent people from exceeding the maximum guest count as well as to prevent 'get togethers'  'dinner parties' or any similar type of gathering without our knowledge or permission. 

In point of fact, we've never said no to anyone who asked if their son/parent/friend could come over for dinner or to visit, but want to be asked in advance so there are no surprises.

If @Julie4477  had asked us if her son and his girfriend could come by we would have said yes, but we likewise would have been VERY annoyed if they had just kept showing up throughout the stay with no notice to us.

[John5097]

@Julie4477 

I wouldn't take it personally. My house rules state "only registered guest" are allowed. No outside visitors. There are a lot of reasons for this. I have a lot of guest in town for weddings or actually getting married. I reminded one couple getting married that there were no outside guest allowed after they made the reservation. They had asked about places to have a reception, etc, and later canceled, which is fine with me. In short, even family dropping by can quickly turn into an event. 

A recent guest, I allowed a son to book a reservation for his mom for Christmas gift. I didn't have to do this. I will book the Airbnb months in advance. I just wanted to accomidate this request. One day before check in, she calls and ask if there is an oven or outdoor grill. I said no, and that its mentioned in four places in the listing. She said she missed it, which is understandable but still a challenge, to simply explain something without offending someone. I said it would be fine if her son wanted to stop by. She then asked if her son could bring a portable grill. I said fine, and at that moment decided to never allow a 3rd party booking again. 

So then I was wondering will the son also have family? Will they have a BBQ and catch something on fire? I'm not really set up for that, and didn't think of an outside table and don't have one. 

In short its important for guest to follow exact rules. If they can't read and understand the very concise listing and rules, don't book the place! Ask ahead if there is anything they want to do. I have self check in, but guest agreed to meet host, then need to follow through. I've had other guest as well who brought family by, one one at a time, but if I don't know, then I'm on alert to see how many extra cars might show up. As it turned out there were several different cars at different times of the day or night. One was a late night visitor. Also I suspect it was this guest who put a raw fish in the fridge that took over a month and 5 deep cleanings to get rid of the smell. 

I personally would have handled something like this with a private message. But my house rules state only registered guest. My place is not a place to entertain or guest invite other people by to visit. My insurance would cover this, but I'm not sure if ABB insurance would cover guest of guest. 

Edit: In short any extra guest, non registered, is increased risk for host. Even with the best insurance. Also this host and host in general have other bad experiences so update rules. Guest who don't follow house rules create more stress for host. For host its best to have very accurate listing and for guest to follow them to the letter. There are so many other places guest can book that can accomodate them. Thankfully, ones who don't follow rules are rare exception. Most are perfect and exceed expectations. If they offer to pay for a broken glass I say not to worry one bit about it! 

Hope that helps. I really appreciate guest who follow rules. Nothing personal. 

[John5097]

Wanted to add. Its best for guest not to make assumptions about reasons for host rules. In our city, guest have one designated parking space. The city zoning and planning department actually inspect each application and told me, the off street private parking space is the most important. It would also be a violation for guest to park on the street or in front of neighbors. Three violattioins and host can lose their STR permit. Keep in mind guest can activate their alarm or horn that can be disruptive, or son may decide to stop by late at night. 

Guest who don't read the listing, don't understand host have to follow local regulations, insurance, and Airbnb policy and rules. Sometimes guest might try to text me and it doesn't go through and assume I blocked them. Nope. 

Also younger guest have been the best so far. That may change but so far fewer younger guust try to hyjack the listing. 

[John5097]

Review could have just stated facts.

”Guest made a reservation for two but had an additional person for three. We agreed to meet at check in, but guest was uncooperative. Required some extra cleaning.”

I host over a hundred reservations a year. Mine is great option for one or two guest. The max is two. If guest want to have family over they need to rent something else. I know that may seem too strict but with hundreds of guest each year visitors usually results in problems. Same with host, it’s the nature of it. If you book a place for two, don’t expect to bring more. Although plenty of listings and host would be happy to accommodate visitors. Guest can message before making reservation. 

[Julie4477]

Thank you so much for the responses.  I just wanted to mention that we our son didn’t stay at the unit with us - we would never have done that, and the rules were quite clear about that.  He and his girlfriend came over to the unit to have a glass of wine with us for about twenty minutes before we went out to dinner.  Clearly there was a miscommunication with the host, and we didn’t realize she would find that to be a violation of rules about parties, strangers, etc.  - I will double and triple check with future hosts for sure.   I guess my primary concern is that,  in her angry response, whatever the reason for it, she stated things about the condition in which we left the unit that were not true.  If I were a host reading her review, I would take it that we marked up her floors or carpets — in fact, we were very very careful to leave the unit just as we found it.   After the miscommunication about having our son over to visit, we basically tiptoed around this host, minimized our time at the unit, and tried to be as clean and quiet as we possibly could — so it’s doubly frustrating and upsetting to be falsely accused of having left the unit in less than great condition.  Perhaps this is just something that happens with reviews?

[Huma0]

@Julie4477 

While the host's review does come across as a bit of a rant, it's clear you rubbed her up the wrong way, and not just because of your son's visits. House rules are important to most hosts, but there are particular rules that are more important to some than others.

You mention in the review you left for her, "We have never had an issue at AirBnB's inviting our son and his girlfriend to stop in before dinner for a glass of wine or to stop in after dinner to watch a tv show with us." While that might have been okay at the Airbnbs you stayed at previously (perhaps not all the hosts were even aware that you had visitors), it is absolutely not okay at many other listings. 

Perhaps it's different for me because I host within my own home, but I would consider it extremely rude if a guest had visitors without asking me. It's just bad manners. It wouldn't matter that I had been introduced to those people at check in. I still haven't been informed that they will be visiting my property again. By the way, did you ask the host in advance if it was okay to bring your son was coming to the check in and was to be included in the tour? If not, again that's bad manners.

It rarely happens and hasn't happened in a long time, but it absolutely astounds me when guests turn up for check in with someone else in tow without any prior notice and expect that person not only to enter the property but to have a tour of it. Of course, the host is not going to make a fuss about it at this stage as it would be really awkward, but that doesn't mean you can pressure that means it's okay. To you, it's your son, or your son and his girlfriend. To the host, it's still a complete stranger/strangers. Sure, you are also a stranger at this point, but you are a booked, paying guest whom the host has hopefully had some prior communication with, knows something about (e.g. has read your reviews) and has an agreement with. It is not the same as random people coming in and out of the property.

Besides it being rude to have visitors without informing the host, it potentially voids the Airbnb insurance. I don't know what local laws the host was referring to in this case, but many areas have strict regulations about STRs that you as a guest are not aware of. Whatever the reason, when you book, you agree to the host's rules and you need to follow them, not challenge them.

Even your original post here suggests that you were unhappy with the host having rules and I am really not sure what the problem is with the ones you have chose to highlight above, i.e. "no prostitutes, no parties, keep outside lights off so as not to bother neighbors, etc. etc. ??" Sure, it's maybe a bit eccentric to keep the outdoor lights off due to a neighbouring astronomer, but I have never really understood why guests leave outdoor lights on when they are inside. It's just a waste of energy. I've never said anything about it but it is still annoying. I mean, you do know we are in the middle of an energy crisis, right? Anyway, if her rules were so outrageous, I am not sure why her other guests aren't complaining about them. Instead, she has lovely reviews.

I suspect it your attitude about breaking the host's rules was the thing that really upset her and I am not at all surprised she then told you no, your son could not continue to visit. 

I don't know if the host added the no visitors part to her listing description after this experience or if it was already there but, while some hosts might be totally okay with it, I would never, ever make the assumption that it would be fine to have visitors to an Airbnb, especially not hanging out drinking wine and watch TV. This is something you should absolutely check with your host first.

The review does seem a bit OTT but, at the end of the day, you are in the wrong. You broke the host's rules and she wasn't happy about it. She's entitled to be unhappy about it and entitled to write about it in the review.

[Jennifer1897]

"She somehow felt that we violated one of her house rules by not asking her permission in advance before inviting our son to come visit us on the property before we went out to supper"

After reviewing her listing this is a rule clearly mentioned several times. You did not "possible" violate a rule, you did violate this rule.  It is the responsibility of the guest to read all house rules prior to booking, as you are agreeing to them when you make a reservation.  I am not a host in her particular area so I can not comment on the particular City Laws, but unregistered guest can be a liability and not covered under certain insurance policies if anything were to happen.  

That being said, as other host's have commented, it seems like you and the host were not a good fit for one another, or maybe you just started on a bad note and things went downhill from there. Sometimes guests and particular hosts just clash for whatever reason. Looking at both your profiles it seems this was the case, as all previous reviews for both you and her were very positive.  Given your previous reviews, I really wouldn't be overly concerned about this one negative. The best thing you can do, which it appears you already did, was leave a short and concise response to the negative review. 

[Sarah977]

@Julie4477  You characterize having your son and his wife over without bothering to ask permission in your review as a "communication problem". 

It seems that the host's rules made it clear that visitors were not allowed, but you ignored that, making an assumption that that didn't apply to your family.

I wouldn't call that a communication problem, I would call it ignoring the rules.

And did you really tell the host you were too tired to pay attention to a 5 minute orientation tour? If so, that's pretty rude.

I can understand why you didn't think it was any big deal to have your son and his wife over, that it wasn't a party, but just non-problematic time spent together. But a host's rules are not open to interpretation by guests. If you are uncertain about something, you need to ask.

The rules you mentioned seem quite reasonable to me- I'm not sure why you put those question marks after them, as if they are somehow outrageous. Most hosts add to their rules over time, because some guests do things the host never imagined would need to be mentioned. Like no prostitution. Chances are, someone used the place for just that purpose, or other hosts in the area that she knows have had that scenario. It's a problem many hosts have had issues with in some areas. 

Just because you were allowed to do something at one Airbnb doesn't mean you can assume you can do it at others, everyone has different rules and check-out requests.

And don't assume that just because past hosts let you have visitors without permission that it was okay with them. Many hosts will let something go to avoid a negative review like you left for this host.

[Julie4477]

Thank you for your feedback - we certainly won’t assume anything is okay with a host going forward without double and triple checking after this experience!  We messaged the host that we were, unfortunately, in a car accident at the airport after our seven hour flight which delayed our arrival and so we were quite tired and rattled when we arrived - I explained that by text because I’m sure I wasn’t my friendliest best self at that hour - I thought it would be better if we could talk more the next day after we’d rested, etc. but that was a no go.  I agree with you that I think the host was very insulted personally that we were tired and kind of out of it when we arrived.  I also agree with you that this host has probably endured bad behavior from other guests that led to her many rules - she stated she was worried that her neighbors wanted to shut her down.  I don’t know how that reconciles with her reviews.   I completely understand her mentioning that we broke her house rule about not asking for permission before having a visitor - I have an issue with her making false statements about how we left the property in retaliation.  I do think it would help other guests to know that we had a communication problem, and to see how she responded - if guests are subject to defamatory rants as punishment for mentioning anything negative in their reviews, I don’t think that serves the AirBnB community well — just my opinion.

[Branka-and-Silvia0]

We are hosting since 2016, about 200 groups a year in 2 units, We are off-site hosts without self-check-in options which means we have to go to the city and meet 200 groups personally each year.

After 6 years of hosting the most irritating things guests often do are:

1. Not reading our description and house rules before booking (which takes about 1 minute).
2. Not paying attention while I show them around (2 min max)
3. Delayed arrival (if not announced at least 1 hour in advance).

It may not seem important to you but by doing these 3 things guests are wasting A LOT of my time, money, and energy and it happens too often.

It doesn't surprise me your host was irritated, but it would be better if she waited a few days to calm down before writing a review. That's what I learned to do.

[John5097]

@Julie4477 

I don’t see how that was defamation . I respect that you accept responsibility for understanding that the guest count when making the reservation needs to be accurate. The fact is that you both had perfect reviews until you decided to disregard the most basic agreement. You still had an issue with this and thought you were entitled to invite any guest you wanted and it’s up to you to decide if this was included as the guest count or not. Reviews are intended to help guest and host make improvements. Each listing is very different. I’m also in a very sensitive neighborhood. She may have also Ben stressed out about something else. A lot of people are in past three weeks, my take on it is that the host had to enforce these specific rules or she can’t host. Many cities have strict rules and host are supposed to keep records of all guest. I’ve also found that even very good guest can become stressful if other guest or visitors don’t know the rules. I used to have up to 4 guest and sometimes one would show up without the door code. I was tempted to just open the door for her, but asked her to contact her friend, and as it turns out one of the other girls was in g t he apartment waiting for her. So had I unlocked it it could have been an invasion of privacy. Likewise maybe the dog gate you mentioned had been left open.