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Welcome to the Community Center! I'm @Bhu...
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Welcome to the Community Center! I'm @Bhumika , one of the Community Managers for our English Community Ce...
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I host a flat in Edinburgh. Recently, we had a guest from England message to say they wanted to cancel, with a full refund, because the wedding they were due to attend had been cancelled and also because the financial circumstances of some members of their party had changed due to coronavirus. We operate a strict cancellation policy which meant they'd get back only 50% of the cost of stay if they cancelled. I said that nevertheless, in addition to that, if they cancelled and we got another booking then I'd pay over any profit we made - I didn't want to profit at their expense. I heard nothing but then noticed that the booking had been cancelled from my calendar by "Supervisor", without me getting any notification, and that the cancellation was said to fall within the extenuating circumstances policy. I thought there had been some mistake - the reasons given to me didn't involve any claimed inability to travel. I asked AirBnB what had happened. They apologised for not messaging me to give notice of the cancellation but they say that they won't give me the reason given by the guest for cancellation. They won't even confirm that the reasons given to ME would not fall within the policy.
I think I can be almost certain that it is simply not true that any guest from one part of the UK will be unable to travel to another part of the UK due to coronavirus - there are no restrictions whatever on internal travel here. Does anyone know how I can point this out to AirBnB and have the decision reviewed? At the moment they are just refusing to engage with me. It would seem very unfair if I think I can show that a guest must be being dishonest about the true reason for cancellation, and in such a blatant way, yet I have no means of pointing that out or getting anyone at AirBnB to properly consider if I might in fact be right.
Thanks for any assistance.
@David2905 Assuming they booked prior to March 14th then I fear you are stuffed. Interestingly the cancelled wedding might well allow them to cancel in law due to their reason for staying being frustrated but its debatable depending on what else they were planning.
You could go to arbitration or the small claims court but I am afraid its likely to be a waste of time and money.
sage advice as always
Thanks for that and you may be right. However, I'm actually a commercial litigation lawyer so know that that definitely would not amount to frustration of the contract any more than, say, you could return a tv you bought because a football match you had hoped to watch was postponed due to bad weather. I may well look into the possibility of legal action but just wondered if anyone had any advice about how to escalate things or complain about how they have been dealt with so far, within AirBnB and short of litigation. Anyway, thanks again.
@David2905 That is just the worst. That means the guest got on to Airbnb somehow (when no one else seems able to reach them) and whined and complained and browbeat them until CS unilaterally overrode your policy and cancelled with a full refund. The only thing I can suggest is that you keep at them. Don't try to prove that anyone lied or try to get them to make sense of the narrative, just keep saying over and over that they overrode your policy and the terms of service and you don't accept it. And that you're a litigation attorney. Repeat and repeat and repeat. Send the same message every day whether you get an answer or not. I don't know if it will work but worth a try before escalating to legal action.
No, unfortunately, the guest doesn't need to whine, complain and browbeat. All they have to do is 'attest' that they qualify for COVID-EC and take the 100% refund in the form of a travel voucher instead. It's very easy. See my breakdown below RE why this is the best possible outcome for Airbnb and why they are likely to ENCOURAGE it.
@Huma0 The OP said the cancellation "was said to fall within their extenuating circumstances policy" - not a word about COVID and no other reason given. And the guest undoubtedly whined.
I'm pretty sure @David2905 was referring to the COVID-19 extenuating circumstances, rather than the general ones, seeing as the guests first told him their issues (cancelled wedding, reduced income) were COVID related. He then refers to no travel restrictions not applying to them, and posted about this on another thread too.
If so, the guests don't need to whine nor provide evidence, as long as they take the coupon.
I had a very similar circumstance when a guest contacted me asking for a full refund. It was clear from the conversation that he did not fall within the COVID EC, which I explained to him and, like @David2905 , offered to refund him further should I get another booking.
However, he didn't want to lose his fees (substantial as it was a fairly long stay) and risk not getting all of the accommodation fees back. It took him minutes to get a full refund from Airbnb - no whining required - and the guest told me himself that he got this refund by telling them his cancellation was COVID related. As I know there were no travel restrictions, no flight cancellations and no illness from COVID involved, he would have had no evidence. Therefore I assume he opted for the voucher. He is UK based and travels to London for work, so it would have been a good option for him.
@David2905 As a lawyer hopefully you can educate me. My understanding based on Edward VIII's coronation (or lack thereof) was that case law allowed that accommodation contracts for said event were frustrated where guests were only travelling to London for the coronation. I assume similar would apply for attending a non-wedding but more than happy to be educated.
I would imagine it would fall under their EC policy for Covid, as the wedding was presumably cancelled because of Covid. @David2905
I also responded to you about this on another thread. The basic problem here is that Airbnb is not requiring guests to provide evidence of COVID-19 extenuating circumstances (e.g. that they are either unable to travel due to COVID-19 or are themselves ill from it) if they accept a travel coupon instead of a monetary refund. To get the former, all they have to do is 'attest' that they qualify and no evidence will be required. You have no way of knowing if they did this or not as Airbnb will not share this 'confidential' information with the host.
This is, of course, totally unfair to hosts but a great way for Airbnb to not only minimise their losses, but actually potentially make more money from these cancellations than they would have should the guest not have cancelled. Here is why:
1. Guest cancels under host's normal policy, let's say Strict. Host gets paid 50%, guest gets refunded 50%. Airbnb gets its fees and keeps any interest they made on the guest's payments to date. Guest may be angry and trash Airbnb on social media/to their friends.
2. Guest cancels under COVID-19 EC and provides evidence. Host gets 0%, guest gests refunded 100% (presumably including Airbnb fees), Airbnb only keeps the interest they have made on guest payment to date. Guest is appeased, doesn't trash Airbnb and is more likely to use it again.
3. Guest cancels under COVID-19 EC without evidence and only 'attests' to qualifying. Host gets 0%, guest gets 100% in the form of a coupon for future travel which they can use on other listings, Airbnb in the meantime gets to keep 100% and make further interest. Should the guest use the coupon, Airbnb also gets to keep its fees. Guest is appeased, doesn't trash Airbnb and is more likely to use it again.
4. Same scenario as 3. BUT guest never gets round to using the coupon by the expiration date. Host gets 0%, guest gets 0%, Airbnb gests to keep 100% of its fees + 100% of the accommodation fees the guest had already paid and has made even more interest on it. Yep, Airbnb get to keep all of the accommodation fees that should have at least partly been paid to the host. Guest can't complain, doesn't trash Airbnb and might use it again.
Given that many guests who don't really qualify for the EC would rather have a 100% coupon instead of a 50% refund and that statistics show that the vast majority of people never get around to using coupons/credit, scenario 4. is likely to happen in MANY cases.
This is the best case scenario for Airbnb because they will actually make a lot more than if the guest had actually fulfilled the booking. Host gets nothing, guest gets nothing, but neither has the right to complain.
So, you can see that it is actually in Airbnb's best interests for the guests NOT to provide evidence of EC.
@Huma0 Yes, and as you and I have discussed before, this is the most egregious result because Airbnb gets to keep funds that they never had a claim to. They were holding the reservation funds as an intermediary. The host has first claim to the funds, the guest has second claim to them, and Airbnb has no claim to any funds other than their service fee.
This is different from any other credit or voucher system where the credit or voucher is offered by the entity actually providing the service, such as when you receive an airline travel credit. In this case Airbnb is converting funds that do not belong to them to their own use.
I know. It's so astonishing that I wonder if it is legal?
I know that the legality of many of Airbnb's decisions during the pandemic has been questioned, but this one seems so egregious, as you say, that I can't see the legal justification for it.
If that credit doesn't get used, how does Airbnb justify keeping all of the accommodation fees and not paying any to the host? @Airbnb Please could you explain this to us?
@Huma0 There is another secondary issue here which is that Airbnb appears to also be retaining the lodging tax for those areas where they collect it. Once they have disassociated the funds from the specific host, there is no longer a local taxing entity that the funds are due to.
For example, one of my properties has a 10% local/state lodging tax. Once that reservation is cancelled and Airbnb is retaining the funds, the local taxing entity does not receive the funds - because Airbnb must hold them in case the credit is used in a different locality. And if the credit is never used the lodging tax funds remain with Airbnb.
To my knowledge, although I have never been able to find out for sure, if a guest gets a 50% refund, they also receive back the lodging tax collected on that 50%. If the host receives the 50% cancellation penalty, Airbnb supposedly remits the lodging tax to the local authority (Airbnb collects and remits lodging taxes on all of my listings so I never see those funds). If Airbnb retains the reservation funds in the form of a credit (which is potentially never used) they also retain the lodging tax.