Have we entered a ‘police’ state!

[David6]

So disturbed & outraged that Airbnb have excluded my dear friend  @susan17 from this community!

Susan is a real. Susan was here from the beginning. She is a SuperHost with most amazing reviews. Reviews of the kind  we only could dream of. Guests all rave about her hospitality. She will arrange a taxi to go buy ANY THING YOU WANT. Guests on a weekend away, want her kind of hosting. 

Susan is my friend. When my apartment was trashed by a party crowd and they threatened to kill me. They caused £12,000 damage. Yes I involved the police. But Susan reached out EVERY DAY to ensure I was ok! She is most amazing asset to this community! She cares about people! She cares even more about hosts! 

I am disgusted that Susan has been excluded. This CC is turning into a police state.

No! Hosts need an outlet to express their frustration. Who are you admins to state a post is ‘negative’!

How dare you exclude a host who supported so many of us!!! Outraged! Absolutely disgusting you could turn against one of the most supportive hosts out there ! Total disgust that you hung @Susan17  out to dry!!! 

[Helen350]

 No offence intended @Cormac0  - it was a JOKE - based on the use of the word  a*se..... My appologies if you didn't find it funny..... Personally, I've spent some wonderful times in Ireland....

[Robin4]

@David6 

Agree with all who have contributed here, it is unfortunate if we have to live with a cloud hanging over us that what ever we say may in some way incur a black mark. 

The unfortunate thing about @Susan17,s case, she never just shot off her mouth like I and some other do here. She could put background research to every post she made....she is meticulous and had the experience to back up her statements, and that is an asset that will be sorely lost here.

But some of the comments here are taking issue with the CC moderators  over this incident involving Susan and, that folks is unfair. 

What has happened here  parallels what White house staffer John Kelly had to go through in 2018 when he sacked close Trump personal assistant, Omarosa Managault Newman ......

https://youtu.be/AXXVQVdTFqE?t=49

It comes across in his voice that Kelly obviously felt incredibly uncomfortable doing what he had to do ...but the fact remains he had to do it!

Our moderators here on the CC do a fantastic job at keeping the forum running smoothly. Although they end up with a pay packet for what they do, it is not from Airbnb, it's the company they work for that provides that pay packet. Sometimes the news they have to deliver is not palatable but, that's not their fault, it's not personal on their part.  

We need to work with the moderators, not against them. @David6 , " @Lizzie  you got nothing to say. How dare you!!! "  mate, that's a very unfair comment.

I know it's not up to me or any of the rest of us to shield the moderators, they are more capable of handling themselves. But they do a great job for us and we need to respect that and realise that some times the news they bring is not the news we want to hear.

The irony of this situation with Susan is, she is writing a book....and it's definitely not going to be a 'Airbnbs Greatest Assets'  book, it will probably be somewhat critical of the company. The sad thing about this is, in her epilogue she will now be able to say 'Subsequent to my investigations I was prohibited from making comments within the company' !

Just that statement alone would give her book an enormous amount of credibility, and will not reflect well on Airbnb in any way! It will look like she has been silenced and that's not the sort of advertising Airbnb do need at this time!

Cheers......Rob

[Sharon1014]

@Alba160 @Robin4  @Ute42   @Colleen253   Thanks for the info guys.  So Susan is writing a not-so-flattering book and she unleashed on another host who got under her skin.  And it seems plausible that she did rattle a few cages with other remarks made (which may or may not include above missive).   So here's the content policy from the Terms of Service.

5.8 You will not post, upload, publish, submit or transmit any Member Content that: (i) is fraudulent, false, misleading (directly or by omission or failure to update information) or deceptive; (ii) is defamatory, libelous, obscene, pornographic, vulgar or offensive; (iii) promotes discrimination, bigotry, racism, hatred, harassment or harm against any individual or group; (iv) is violent or threatening or promotes violence or actions that are threatening to any other person or animal; (v) promotes illegal or harmful activities or substances; or (vi) violates Airbnb’s Content Policy or any other Airbnb policy. Airbnb may, without prior notice, remove or disable access to any Member Content that Airbnb finds to be in violation of applicable law, these Terms or Airbnb’s then-current Policies or Standards, or otherwise may be harmful or objectionable to Airbnb, its Members, third parties, or property.

It's probably best that we don't discuss it anymore so it goes away quietly or  in case someone else gets bumped ..... what does everyone else think? 😉  Should there be a right of appeal and the process of natural justice applied in instances like this?

Aww heck, why can't they all just kiss 'n make up?  Shake hands and be grown ups..... too much to ask?  

btw Robin, I agree the moderators are meat in the sandwich, not their fault.

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

@Sharon1014 @Alba160 @Robin4 @Ute42 @Colleen253 @Jennifer1421 @David6 

So when a guest breaks these rules during a review and the CX staff say "they were expressing their opinion" and their review remains, or instead (maybe) the review - gets removed. Where is this different?

Already the flowery language has/was removed leaving the case 'moderated', all that remains is the reason for banning... That, can now only be described as discrimination.

Theres a whole raft of terms on discrimination as we know, and discrimination is NOT tolerated.

[Sharon1014]

@Ian-And-Anne-Marie0  My 2c of course but moderating a post by omitting the flowery language doesn't constitute discrimination.  I've used a word or two at times that finds its way into the moderators out of order bin.  No big deal.  The irony of it all however is not lost... Airbnb, where everyone belongs! (except Susan it seems).   Now that really is a pity.

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

@Sharon1014 

In light of the way people are treated in offering their opinion based on the same rules it is indeed discrimination. My 2c.

[David6]

@Robin4 @Sharon1014 

@Susan17 is a good friend of mine. We speak regularly on WhatsApp and she has supported me from the day I first posted.

I hardly ever post now, & stopped using these pages as I do not agree with the level of censorship (moderating.)

I feel this community is of little benefit now. Closing posts such as the ‘party house shooting’ & other heavy handed measures. I am sure @Lizzie and @Stephanie are just working to an agenda. My complaint is directed towards the powers-that-be & the policies they are ensuring are enforced. But I do know that lies have been posted by the moderators, regarding the banning of Susan and I am really saddened  by that. I have seen all the messages sent to Susan and her responses.

Airbnb closed the original extremely informative ‘host pages’ several years ago. There everyone was totally fee to discuss openly & without censorship. We hosts ‘policed’ our own pages and never tolerated anything less than civility.

When my apartment was trashed & the guests threatened to kill me, also causing £12K of damage,  @susan17 was hugely supportive. As were many other hosts. Many offered me a complimentary stay in their homes. From Spain, US, even Australia.

Susan supported ALL hosts & was always here to offer guidance & answer question from those new  to CC. She had a huge amount of experience and her posts were sometimes hard hitting but always based on facts.  As many have learnt with the current C19 crisis, Airbnb will literally throw you under the bus. Susan knew this & was trying to warn hosts to get ready & take preventative measures.

I personally believe hosts should be permitted to post on the CC without censorship & the positives and negatives of hosting should be freely discussed. Otherwise hosts just move to other platforms. We are not going to suddenly change our opinion or start sprouting the ‘fluffy, fuzzy, we love Airbnb’ line.

Banning the top contributor to these pages is a step way too far in my opinion.

[Robin4]

@David6 

David, it is a travesty that Susan and all her knowledge is lost to us. Many of us are in her debt for the warnings she has given over the past few years which have saved us from potentially costly mistakes.

My posts here are in no way a criticism of Susan or what she stands for.

If she had been in my part of the world I would have made a point of meeting her and possibly becoming a friend of hers as you have become.

I do know personally a considerable number of hosts, some of them from here on the CC, having been able to get together with them  and share a coffee or a wine. Some them like @Cathie19  have been prodigious contributors here on the CC.

I have had @Lizzie grace us with her presence and spend a night under our roof.......

I have the utmost faith the moderators, Lizzie, Steph, Quincy, Anna would (on a personal level) not censor any material or contributor here on the CC unless that material was slanderous of another contributor or contravened bad language guidelines. I have had at least a handful of posts removed by the moderators over the years ....but not because any of those posts offended them personally, but simply because they fell outside the company's stated terms for use of the Community Centre. 

What has happened to Susan here has come via the moderators, I am sure it did not start with them.

I would be really disappointed if we lost a host of your calibre to the CC David because you feel the CC is being run by censors.

Cheers......Rob

[Ute42]

.

Hi @Robin4 

with all due respect, but this is not a "praise the moderators thread",

it's a "we've lost @Susan17  thread".

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

@Ute42 @Robin4 

@Alba160 

Quote of Airbnb email: "... "...your message that referred to another user as "a**e-licking tittle tattling" " .."

I can see another appropriate use of this language here.

Nobody remotely thinks its the active moderators responsible for this. This has been imposed over their heads.

[Ute42]

.

@Ian-And-Anne-Marie0, @Alba160  

@Susan17   made the remark You have mentioned on april 3rd. It took airbnb 1 month to find out that they don't like it – come on.

The truth is she got banned for posting „negative content“ all the time. The problem being: Everything she wrote was true.

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

@Ute42 

That remark is a total "Red Herring". Negative content is just an opinion and as @Robin4 was saying yesterday about "not shooting the messenger" here is a perfect case of shooting the messenger as the message has been perfectly delivered from the source of the action. 

It is the action in need of change not the delivery system.

Everything she wrote was true, and backed up by evidence.

[Fred13]

Why this is interesting. Just stumbled into this thread. Here is my take on all this and I will speak in general, my personal opinion of Susan17 is another whole subject.

~The Airbnb Community Board is private property, it belongs to Airbnb, Inc. You can participate in it if you are a host, but one must agree to stay within its rules (see them above). They own it, so they set the rules. The moderators in turn work for Airbnb, you bet they will look out for the company's interest.

~The forums are provided to enhance the Airbnb product by giving Airbnb hosts the opportunity to exchange ideas, experiences, opinions which collectively it is the hoped they will be helpful to all hosts.

~Forums by their nature can easily get out of hand and much-too-often get hijacked by the most aggressive participants, this is very common in all forums. Especially when the aggressive types start to change the general tone of the forum by their constant incessant negative criticism of the company, or even start to give opinions that suggest sinister evil plots. Such opinions, whether true or not is immaterial, they do not belong in a privately-owned forum that the public (hosts in this case) get to see at large. Such negative individual campaigns can be very harmful.

~This forum, because of these exceptionally kind moderators, have given us an incredible latitude as to opinions about every category of hosting and even allowed our personal opinions about Airbnb and its owners; however, I do not think it is a  place with absolute social rights.  It has guidelines that are there to limit human behavior, which can become rampant at times. You bet it must censor some off-the-wall opinions or ardent tone at times, it is not a soap box in a public square where even lunatics get to scream whatever they like.

~When all is said and done. Airbnb is a business. If someone just starting and comes into this forum and starts reading on the 'evils' of the company which they just started doing business with - it is not a plus, but a negative. It is simply bad for business.

~Yes, of course it behooves a company to listen and address the opinions of its customers, hosts in this case, but the fact is it doesn't have to meet every person's expectation in order to insure everyone will be content. Everyone is responsible for their own happiness. It is assumed that if one is not satisfied with what the company offers, understandably they will go elsewhere; but to allow anyone to play sabotage as happens in many boards, is definitely out of the question, or should be.

~Lastly, when forums are not a plus for the company, they are simply closed. Period. And that is always a possibility.

[Suzanne302]

@Fred13  THIS: "~Forums by their nature can easily get out of hand and much-too-often get hijacked by the most aggressive participants, this is very common in all forums. Especially when the aggressive types start to change the general tone of the forum by their constant incessant negative criticism of the company, or even start to give opinions that suggest sinister evil plots. Such opinions, whether true or not is immaterial, they do not belong in a privately-owned forum that the public (hosts in this case) get to see at large. Such negative individual campaigns can be very harmful."

Fellow hosts, please don't jump on me for saying this, but my observation is that in some cases, simple posts asking for advice or opinions would suddenly take a turn into something completely different. I think there is a place for criticism and criticism should be heard, but when a host asks for opinions on types of linens, and the thread turns into how Airbnb is the devil, that's not helpful.

[Melodie-And-John0]

@Fred13 , thank you for that very real and dead nutz analysis of this situation.  @Robin4 also hit the nail squarely, smacking the moderators isnt nice nor deserved in this case.  @Ute42 , if I told my boss at my 40 hour a week job "The Truth" on a daily or weekly basis, there is a very good chance even with an awesome work record I wouldnt have hit my 10th, 20th or 26th year anniversary doing the job i truly love like I did May 1st.   The same might be said for my 1/4 century marriage to my lovely wife Melodie, the truth hurts more sometimes than its worth and they payment might be not be worth the investment of a particular POV.  Every situation is different but even being filled with the best intentions, those intentions aren't always greeted with a grin, wink, smile, bow or handshake by the wife, boss, neighbor or our well meaning Police Force even if we are right.   

I know this will sound a bit cold, thats not really my intention but if you remove any particular name of a person from this conversation controversy, you can more easily understand that this is purely a business decision more than a direct offence against a highly revered and respected member of the community. .  After all, this is a real and huge business,  ideals and ideas that are not supportive of the mother-ship can and will be cast aside like folks that violate our rules and such by us as hosts, (and yes, after looking at tons of listings, I realize some of us hosts have some pretty quirky and silly rules and regs).  Its harsh, cruel and sad when folks that we like or love are not part of the conversation anymore, for the sake of the thousands of valuable and heartfelt chats here, I hope and pray it won't blow up more than it seems to be doing right now. 

Im not saying we shouldnt keep it real here, just asking everyone to Think, Push and then Talk in that order so we can keep the conversations alive!  Please stay well, JR