Host awareness

[David6560]

An important factor hosts should know is that even if they opt for airbnb to hold a deposit, it only covers breakages which I thought Airbnb covered anyway. 
Our house sleeps six and Greg reserved a room for two guests at very short notice. 

So amongst juggling two school runs, six miles apart we also work split shifts so getting the place ready was quite a task. 
Greg rocked up with his party who smeared food on the bedroom floor. Left mud from outdoor shoes on the bed and frame. Not only soiled bedding but soiled duvets too. We cleared six bags of rubbish including most things imaginable like condoms etc. Besides the missing items, smashed glass was found in every room of the house! We spent forever cleaning the floors in kitchen, living room, bedrooms, even on the landing and in particular the settee. Our next guest had children so leaving the slightest trace of glass could have spelt trouble.
There is absolutely no way two people could end up needing six bags of rubbish cleared.

We had a Photoshoot 9am Monday morning and only discovered the mess late Sunday evening so it was extremely chaotic to say the least.

We were expecting a quick tidy up after two guests, before the photographer came. We explained to Airbnb the fact we had to clean late at night and very early morning because what cleaner would come at such short notice and at what cost. So we thought it would have been reasonable to claim from the guest additional guest fees and additional cleaning fees but no. Airbnb said there’s nothing they could do about either issue. 
Well and truly hard done by leaving us totally out of pocket. Small fish like us don’t offer the brilliant publicity of the trashed mansions. 

[Anonymous]

@David6560  "Security Deposit" is a misnomer because Airbnb does not hold or charge any deposit at the time of booking, no matter how much you specify.

[David6560]

Hi thx for your msg... do you know any actual benefit of requesting a deposit then? 

[Anonymous]

@David6560  There's no reason not to put some value into the Security Deposit field, but honestly I have no idea why it's there in the first place. The process for requesting compensation is the same without one as it is with one, and I'm not even sure if the deposit has any influence on how disputes are resolved. Perhaps someone who has more experience with damage claims will have some insight here.

[Sarah977]

@David6560  I don't have a security deposit on my listing becuse I just list a private room in my home, where there is not really anything they can destroy unless they were really trying to, and get peaceful guests who don't cause any damage.

But I have read some posts here where hosts said that they got more respectful guests after they added a hefty security deposit. I guess just knowing that they could be charged for damages is a bit of a deterrent to careless behavior.

[Rowena29]

Hi @David6560 

I am one of those host who has a hefty security deposit.

I am well aware that the liklihood that I can make a claim against it is quite slim.

however in my particular circumstance i'm fairly sure that airbnb at least ensure there are sufficient funds on my CC to cover the security deposit should I make a claim .   Guests see to be aware of this, so I view it as a psychological advantage.  I also have a disclosed security camera outside and I think the combination of the two helps to filter out the type ofo guest who plans to do the wrong thing or is overly careless.

I'ts also a useful bargaining chip

For instance we allow pets but only in the garage and yard, not in the house proper

I have had quite a lot of emails from potential guests urign me to allow them to bring rover inside as he is extremely well behaved and would not inflict any kind of damage.

I usually reply along the lines of, well the rules is there for a reason - we've had quite a bit of damage in the past. That's why I now charge a $700 security deposit. but I wont' be there to police this rule, so if you're confident that upon checkout I 'd have no reason to want to claim the security deposit (excessive hair on furnishings, gouges out of the floorboards holes ripped or chewed in the screens) I suppose I'd be none the wiser.   As soon as they think they might be held financially accountable  - ie THEY are wearing the risk of Rover being as well behaved as they assured me he would be, they suddenly decide my house is not for them.  I do the same sort of thing with the BBQ- saying if it's excessively dirty I'll have to claim agains the security deposit

so I find the deposit useful that way - I"ve never made a claim . It's bluff value.

hope this helps

[David6560]

Hi @Rowena29 thx for that. Do you hold the deposit yourself and not via Airbnb? I’ve since noticed some listings require cash deposits which would obviously be a deterrent to the house party I got. 

[Rowena29]

no @David6560 I just go through the standard airbnb procedure. I don't really hold any power at all with the security deposit, but I talk like I do and guests fall for it. ( so far)

Homeaway/stayz/vrbo  DO take the deposit upfront and give you more control over it.

I am very far from an expert - especially as I have never make a claim, just a request from money prior to a trip beginning for extra charges that were mutually agreed upon  - but as I gather from reading on these boards a claim sort of works like this...

 You  want to make a claim for extra cleaning, ruined linens - whatever.

You send a request money to the guest, and in the comments state why.  At this point the guest realises they can decline.  If the guest accepts  - airbnb will take the money from the guests payment method . ( don't even get me started of what happens - or what doesnt' happen when a guest accepts but does not have sufficient funds)

if the guest doesn't accept you have to escalate to airbnb.  Airbnb will require proof (photographic), invoices of costs, if you are to have any chance at all of them finding in your favour (frequently they don't).  The money from this point comes from airbnb's "host guarantee".  Since it's theirs, they're not inclined to part with it.

Many hosts have a robust landlords insurance instead.  For something like extra cleaning many hosts wouldn't bother trying to retrieve the money - however justified it might be, because apart from anything else the effort outweighs the payback, especially when you know making a claim from a guest will almost certainly result in a bad review.

It's a completely unfair system. Hence my using the Sec Dep as a  "threat" if that's not too strong a word.  I refer back to it in my house rules  -  I say money will be deducted from it for this and money will be deducted from it for that. I know I  have a snowflakes chance in hell, but most (australian) guests don't.

Personally in your case - as egregious as it obviously was  - I would probalby have limited myself to writing a super polite scathing review and tank the guests in stars to make it clear to future hosts and possibly the guest himself that his behaviour was unacceptable.

We dont' seem to have a lot of power in airbnb land and things are frequently unfair.

Having said that I have spoken to a couple of Australian hosts who have always had their claims upheld after they have involved airbnb in a dispute

[David6560]

Hi @Rowena29 so your advice is git them with empty threats 😕

Also you think most hosts realise and accept that they have no control whatsoever if someone books a room for two guests and can rock up with no fewer than six people? 
In my case Airbnb advises me there was nothing they could do about that. I just found it so so odd since I request a deposit from my guests. 
@Helen3 says I was wrongly advised though but I haven’t read precisely what the deposit even covers. 

[Rowena29]

@David6560 

To have at least a bit of power you need to have things clearly stipulated in your house rules

eg   The number of guests booked for is the MAXIMUM number of guests allowed. If you booked for 2 guests, only 2 guests may stay. This is an INSURANCE REQUIREMENT.  Guests violating this rule will have their bookings cancelled."     

After a guest books (IB for me) i more or less re iterate the bit about number of guests and ask the booker to please enter the full legal names of everyone staying in the who's coming section. For me this is genuinely an insurance requirement but it also serves to let the guest know I am keeping a close eye on things.  It also helps cover those situations where some guests do genuinley believe it's ok to bring extras - my house sleeps 8 - some guests think  it's within their rights to bring an extra 6 even if they've only paid for 2.  some listings charge a flat rate for the maximum number of guests, some, like me charge a base rate for 2 and then an extra guest fee, so it does genuinely get a bit confusing - not every guest is a scammer ( although yours sound like they are)

if you are going to claim against extra guests  you need photographic evidence or a police report ( so I have been told by airbnb). It's not enough to say you know there were extra guests.

I am a remote host myself so I am not able to be nearby to ensure great behaviour is occurring.

I get a reasonably good feel for my guests by the communication I have with them ( or lack thereof) If I have a bad feeling I am particularly vigilant in watching the security camera. If is apparent there are more guests than those booked for  ( especially FOUR more, 1 i might slip by) I would ring airbnb and cancel the booking.  airbnb would try to persuade me to send a request for extra money, but personally if I thought they were scammers I wouldn't' have a bar of that as it would create bad blood, they'd leave a bad review, they'd be hostile and likely to do some kind of retaliatory damage. I'd want them OUT.  I would be down on money, but I would have the upper hand and would hopefully be sending a message that they don't have carte blanche to take liberties.  You've had a pretty awful experience adn there's no doubt that airbnb have behaved badly. The trouble is David they behave badly again and again and again  - there's stories like this on the boards, 5,6,7 times a day.  They do not have our backs.  IMO our best form of protection is careful ( not necessarily lengthy) communication prior to check in, clear rules, an external security camera, monitoring if necessary and a willingness to cancel if push comes to shove.  Obviously not foolproof.

Airbnb love to be deliberately vague about all their polices - makes it so much easier to deny claims  - but my gut reaction is you won't get anywhere with claims for extra guests with no "proof".  Claims for extra cleaning will probalby not be paid out without photographic evidence and/or invoices.

From airbnb's perspective they will have a host claiming damages and extra guests and a  guest saying nothing of the sort, They don't know either of you. it's he said she said - there's no tangible proof for them to view.  They are almost certainly going to side with the guest. It's not personal, they are completely detached and uninvolved and also just don't care

For a start, for the future, maybe consider setting up your booking requirements so that guests can't IB on short notice? I have a 48 hour advance notice for IB so I can't get any "very short notice" guests ( who many peopel report are usually trouble) They can still request to book, but they can't IB. That way i'm not caught unawares and I still have time to vet and get a feel for who is staying at my place. If I'm at all uncomfortable I'd cancel.

[David6560]

Hi @Sarah977  dont get me wrong. All the guests I’ve had have been predominantly great so I wouldn’t want people to not support the community cos I think it’s a great thing but the one time I was hoping to utilise the deposit I realised I couldn’t so find it pointless requesting one from guests. I was told there the deposit is only to cover breakages but I was wanting to recover part of the cost of cleaning all the broken glass which was literally found in every single room. 
it just took us so long to clean, especially the thick pile rug and settee. 

[Helen3]

Are you saying that Airbnb wouldn't not uphold the claim you made under the Airbnb guarantee the damages, guest fees and additional cleaning @David6560 

Whoever told you the deposit only cover breakages was incorrect.

https://www.airbnb.co.uk/help/article/140/how-does-airbnb-handle-security-deposits

[David6560]

Hi @Helen3 

Thank you very much. I’ve looked at the link and it doesn’t seem to outline precisely what the deposit covers. It does however seem very odd for them to offer the option of requesting a deposit if it doesn’t cover anything they already cover. 
My claim was absolutely minimal and more than fair as it took us much longer to clean than normal and we had to rush it late in the evening and very early next morning. No cleaning co. Would have entertained us at such short notice and late evening without a high call out charge. 

[Helen3]

Exactly my point nowhere does it say the deposit only covers damages. You still haven't said who told you it wouldn't cover cleaning etc.

The issue might be that you don't have an invoice for cleaning rather than it doesn't cover cleaning.

Anyway go back to Airbnb and challenge them on this.