The end of Airbnb as we know it?

[Kath9]

Here's an interesting article i just came across: https://www.wired.co.uk/article/airbnb-coronavirus-losses

It states that 60% (!!!) of Airbnb hosts have MORE than TWO OTHER listings and argues that Airbnb has become nothing more than a hotel chain. Sadly, I have to agree. As many hosts in this forum know, I have long lamented the transition from the original spirit of Airbnb (staying with locals in their homes) to the rise of the professional host with multiple listings. I take issue with many aspects of this, primarily the housing shortage it has created worldwide, and have long been dismayed at Airbnb's unwillingness to regulate this. The hosts who are now in deep trouble and calling for legal action are mainly those who have multiple listings and have made Airbnb their primary source of income.

If Airbnb manages to survive this crisis, it is my sincere hope that it goes back to its core values and becomes a true home-sharing platform once again. 

[Susan17]

@Jessica-and-Henry0 @Robin4 

There are still those who will continue to trot out the tired old "Well this is what you signed up for, when you agreed to Airbnb's T&C's" line, as a means of defending the company’s indefensible behaviour in forcing countless thousands of their service providers to assume 100% of the burden in relation to this catastrophe, consequently plunging innumerable hosts and their families into a state of poverty.

Well actually no, it's not what we signed up for. At all..

The claims that Airbnb's Extenuating Circumstances policy stated "Epidemic disease or illness" prior to the COVID-19 outbreak are wholly and completely untrue. From March 21 2017,  the language in the original policy actually referred to "ENDEMIC disease or illness".

Somewhere between Feb 25 2020 and April 2 2020 (most likely Mar 1, but yet tbc) - without the required clarification, explanation or 30-day (or any) notice to users - Airbnb quietly and arbitrarily amended the policy to remove the term "Endemic", and replace it with "Epidemic".

Additionally, all existing EC pages referencing "Endemic" were subsequently erased from the website and tellingly, the company subsequently offered some minimal compensation possibilities for hosts by way of the $250 million Host Aid fund, who had refunds forcibly applied and provided to guests, under the terms of COVID/EC.

Endemic refers to the constant presence and/or usual prevalence of a disease in a geographic population. Malaria, for example, is an endemic disease.

Epidemic refers to a sudden increase in the number of cases of a disease above what is normally expected.

Pandemic refers to an epidemic that has spread over several countries or continents, usually affecting a large number of people.

Coronavirus is an example of an epidemic which became a pandemic, and can not be interpreted as an endemic disease

[Robin4]

@Susan17 

Susan you follow this more than anyone else here, mate! You are the William Wallace of the Airbnb hosting crusade. There is not much that happens that you cannot put a rationale to.

Me,  I don't think I am a lot different to many of the other longer time hosts here. We have been around long enough to know we are being screwed by the politics of the company, but don't understand, or delve into, the subtleties involved the way you do!

When I went into this game I never looked for dark corners, I never thought I was going to have to second guess what I was doing....it wasn't a game of snakes and ladders to me! I got talked into signing up, and I never looked back. I saw this company as a wonderful adjuct to the travel industry, a way of putting humans back in touch with each other again....it made travel personal, something that had been robbed from them by the hotel lobby. 

I have been prepared to put up with this ever tightening hosting straight-jacket that Airbnb are putting on us hosts. But it now appears that that straight-jack is also being put on guests. .....we are all being screwed! I do think of myself as an honourable person, I always stood behind every deal I made, I never hid behind a technicality.....I owned my problems!

I am struggling at the moment, the performance of the company is not sitting well with me just now. I am seeing heartbreak stories one after another from both hosts and guests. I am seeing mass confusion in the interpretation of the company's rules. The only consistency in all this confusion is.....the company benefits in some way! They are feeding on everyone elses loss!

You Susan can put a logical side to what is happening, I can only put an emotional side to it...and, at the moment I don't feel comfortable.

With all your knowledge, can you see a phoenix event happening here or, is it time we put into place our exit strategy plans.

Stay safe possum!

Cheers.....Rob 

[Jessica-and-Henry0]

@Susan17 

I'm not a lawyer and I'm not talking about the legality of things here.

Just saying that in my personal opinion not expecting to pay/not being paid for a service that (a) the buyer cannot access thru no fault of their own AND (b) seller cannot provide thru no fault of their own isn't really what I'd consider putting the burden on one side. 

Some hosts keep insisting they can host. Well the truth is..... they can't. Except for a few exceptional or unique cases, most of us can't host without threatening the health of everyone around us and our communities.

[Susan17]

@Jessica-and-Henry0

Unfortunately, your personal opinions - or the personal opinions of anyone else - won't feed kids that will go hungry as a direct consequence of this travesty, nor keep a roof over their heads.

As explained previously - and this is crucial - whether or not hosts can or cannot host, the reality is, they stood ready and willing to provide the service they agreed to provide, as per their part of the contractual agreement. **It was no more the fault of hosts, than it was the fault of the guests, that those services were not/could not be availed of.** Therefore, it remains legally, morally and ethically wrong that 100% of the burden should have been forced on the shoulders of one party.

It appears to me that the standpoint of many of those who steadfastly refuse to countenance the inequity and unfairness of one party (hosts) assuming 100% of the burden in this situation, with the other party (guests) assuming 0%, comes from a place of their own fears and sense of self-preservation, rather than a place of solidarity with, or empathy and compassion for, their wronged and undeniably suffering fellow hosts. And that's both sad and disappointing to see. 

[Ute42]

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@Jessica-and-Henry0  , @Susan17 

Jessica, You know that we have chatted in the past several times and I like You. But I am following Your statements on these corona cancellations now for quite a while and I must say You are totally wrong.

On march 9 I believe airbnb has declared a 100% refund policy for all check-ins from march 14 to april 14, unconditionally, worldwide. No other OTA did that. With 5 days notice thenthousands of hosts lost lost the income for a complete month and that put many of these host into a terrible financial situation.

There is a mindset amongst endusers that, whatever happenes in life and even if the world falls into pieces, they have to be kept harmless from any losses and someone else must pay for it. We must break that mindset. The corona crisis is the biggest worldwide disaster after worldwar II and there is a gerenal risk in life which just cannot be insured.

Airbnb made a mistake with their 100% refund decision and they know it. That's why they are now throwing in $250 M of their own money to make up for it.

Yesterday there was a skift video interwiew with Brian Chesky and he sayed:

• In times of this crisis, i would have made one decision differently, i would have consulted hosts more before extending the extenuating circumstances policy, that was a big learning

Correct, he "extended" the existing EC policy. He changed the rules, unrightfully.

What he did was wrong, and the points You are making are also wrong. Dead wrong.

[Md-Mizanur1]

Hi Susan

Most of the people think their own way and only less people go in to the depth of the issue. I found you have sound knowledge about Airbnb and it's activity. We want more contribution from you to this community.

Think we are in one family and we need to take care all of them. May Allah bless you and your family and show us the right path.

Thank you

Regards

Mizanur

[Susan17]

@Md-Mizanur1

Thank you so much for your kind words - greatly appreciated. You made my day! 

Blessings to you and your loved ones too. May there be brighter days ahead for all of us. One love. 

Insha'Allah. 

[Robin4]

@Alon1 

Alon, there is always a shiny new tomorrow. On this side of the world we feel terribly for what you are going through over there at the moment. Being a vast country, social distancing has been far easier for us than it has been for you. But, there is light at the end of the tunnel ......

We are coming out the other side, and in this state of mine, South Australia we are, as of tonight down to less than 50 active cases with 6 in hospital and 2 in ICU

The issue is we have not built up a herd immunity here Alon, we have just simply smashed the current infection rate, but we have left ourselves open to re-infection as soon as we relax our strict distancing regulations with the rest of the world. 

Treatments are on the way though.....not a vaccine but, there are a number of treatments like Ivermectin, a well used head-lice treatment for the last 30 years which has proven to kill the current version of the coronavirus within 48 hours of contact. It doesn't stop people getting covid-19, but it stops them from dying. Early stages but it looks promising!

We will get on top of this Alon, and the sun will shine again.

Cheers......Rob

[Sarah977]

@Robin4  There may not be any such thing as herd immunity to this virus. To date, I've read nothing that points to that possibility. Quite the opposite- South Korea has reported something like 100 cases of people who had the virus, recovered, tested negative, then had symptoms again and tested positive again. Read an article yesterday that some who had it in China are still testing positive 6 weeks later.

There will always be people who have such strong immune systems that they simply don't get sick even if they are surrounded by people who are sick with whatever. But to think that will be a significant part of the population- I just don't see any evidence of thus far.

And a study in New York that just came out says that while fever has been listed as one of the primary symptoms, 70% of patients admitted to hospital in New York who were sick, and manifested other symptoms, like shortness of breath, dry cough, etc. and tested positive, had no fever. There is now another symptom they are finding primarily in children, first reported in Italy- "COVID toes"- a red/blue discoloration of the toes that looks somewhat like frostbite and can sometimes turn into ulcerating sores. It's been seen in those who have no other symptoms of COVID but test positive. 

It seems like this virus can manifest in a myriad of ways, and may be constantly mutating. 

It's great that Australia is seeing the numbers going down. If you keep up the responsible isloation behavior there and keep your borders closed to international travel, you could have a coronavirus-free continent where everyone could move about freely without concern.

[Wende2]

@Sarah977  I just watched this on YouTube the other day.  Interesting interview with a Dr in South Korea.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwoNP9QWr4Y

He did talk about people who have relapsed, said they still have enough of the virus to come back.

[Jessica-and-Henry0]

@Robin4 @Sarah977 @Wende2 

Here's an article about S.Korea relapse cases.

https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20200417006800320

Also beginning May 6, there will be some new (slightly relaxed) guidelines for social distancing since the intense level of social distancing that has been strongly recommended is really NOT plausible for everyone in the long-term. 

https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20200419003252325

Henry and I and our families been following different levels of but fairly strict and for a while very intense (especially during March) social distancing since end of January. Despite the high number of cases, we've been lucky that so far...... I don't have a single family member, friend or acquaintance who is a confirmed case and is the same for most of my family, friends and colleagues. 

[Wende2]

@Jessica-and-Henry0   Thanks for the article, interesting read, you don't hear any news here in the states about this, pretty sure I know why, since "someone" wants to get the country opened WAY too since in my opinion.

Really glad to hear you and everyone you know are well, same with me, I live a small county were we have a total of 31 as of today...24 Apr...our Governor is married to a South Korean and she actually was the one who helped secure 500,000 test kits for our state from South Korea, pretty awesome.

[Helen427]

hello @Wende2

If you use keywords like Corona virus/ Covid19, South Korea news in online search engines it should come up as they do when I use similar tools to see what's happening in the wider world.

[Wende2]

Hi @Helen427  I actually watch a lot on TubeYou, there's a lot of good info there, a Dr in the UK has daily updates and a global on Fri., there's 2 Dr. here in the states, 1 that is working with Covid patients.  Also watched a good interview with a Dr. in South Korea, if you know of some AU channels I'd like to watch those too. 

[Robin4]

@Wende2 

Wende, that South Korean doctor was quite amazing. The part that really riveted me was the distinction between relapses and re-infections!

His comment was, there is no reliable positive test for Covid-19....it requires 3,000 replications in the human body to test positive! less than 3,000 replications will show up as a negative test!

This is why people who are given the all-clear will subsequently return a positive reading again.

Jeez, I was absolutely struck by what he was saying and the implications this has for the US are staggering!

Wende, there is light at the end of the tunnel. We here in my state of South Australia have just about nailed this virus. As of tonight we have 438 cumulative total cases of Covid-19,  we have 401 recovered cases and 34 active cases of which 5 are in hospital and 1 is listed as serious and we have had 4 deaths in total. Six of the last 8 days have been free of any new infections and within a week to 10 days we will have eradicated the virus entirely from this state! Social distancing amongst ourselves has lifted considerably. Groups of up to 10 are allowed and nonessential travel within the state is now allowed. We are out visiting friends again. Nobody is wearing face masks or any form of protection any more and life here is pretty much back to normal......until we open our borders again!

Here is our current graph, we are desperately close to that point where the green line and the blue line meet, and the red line disappears!

I just wish the rest of the world can get back on top of this soon now. I have blocked my calendar for the next three weeks but after that I will open it up again to locals, or at least guests from this state, I am starting to get local travel enquiries again and the risk presented here are almost nonexistent!

Cheers......Rob