A guest damaged my property and Airbnb refuses to pay under the Host Guarentee. HELP!

[Charles14]

Has anyone had a guest who is the son of the booking guest demolish physical property (way beyond wear and tear) and then have Airbnb not only deny their claim but then refuse to escalate the issue to legal?

I feel misled by the Host Guarentee as I believe the damage done and the offender fall within the covered damages listed within the host guarentee guidlines.  I submitted my request on time and according to spec.  Now, the only person who responds to me is not giving me the contact information to legal, as I am requesting, to have a mature conversation prior to seeking arbitration.

This is all over a claim for $299 and I am a host with a perfect hosting record.  (Superhost.) 

Please advise if anyone knows how to get a reasonable human involved in this nightmare!  The only thing I can think of doing before filing suit or compelling arbitration is to reach out to the media, as that appears to be the only way to get higher ups to reach out to individuals.

Charles

Palm Desert, CA

[Maria1146]

I also wanted to add that, using your argument that they are only a booking service, would absolve them of any issues and put all of the onus for any issues on either the host or the guest. If this is the case they should charge a small amount for posting the property and not take a percentage of the total cost of the booking and they should not be offering a bogus host protection insurance which is really not insurance at all.

[M-and-I0]

I hope this might help someone on here:

I've found the best bet is to go through a resolutions claim. Make sure you do so within 48 hours of check out or before your next check in and have detailed photos of the damage plus any documentation or quotations showing the cost of the damage. The guest will likely be unresponsive or decline the claim and after 72 hours, you can click to escalate to Airbnb and they'll reach out to you for more information and a case manager will determine what should be done. In most cases, I find that is there are physical damages that are well documented, and backed up with quotes, Airbnb will be on your side. However, if for things like violating your house rules: smoking, extra cleaning for parties, late check out resulting in fee from cleaners etc. you're likely out of luck.

[David126]

We can agree about the Host Guarantee, not Insurance, but that would not be an issue for you but one for your Neighbour.

I seriously doubt your Neighbour or AirBnB can be held liable for the criminal actions of somebody who stayed at your Neighbours house. 

You said you stay at Hotels, well Hotels also use AirBnB, I myself have a very small Hotel only 3 rooms. Next year I hope to expand to 8 and will need to use other booking systems as well.

I do not know how you book Hotels but if something like this happened and the person was staying at a Hotel and had used say Booking.com do you think you would have any legal recorse against either the Hotel or Booking.com?

I think you misunderstand how AirBnB operates which is understandable as you have never used it.

As always seek competent legal advice.

[Maria1146]

Actually, they can and will be held iable - this was just confirmed by our homeowner's insurance company. We just received communication from them indicating that their legal department will be going after Air BnB and the host to recoup the pitance they are paying out on our claim. I guess it's different in Canada - perhaps the legal system thinks that both Air BnB and the host are liable because they did not do their due dilligence to verify who they were renting to. From what I'm reading on airbnbhell.com, it seems that Air BnB does nothing to check who their guests or hosts are  - don't they say somewhere on their site that it's all built on trust? The thing is that you can't trust everyone and, certainly, not everyone is worthy of trust. I also note that guests claim that Air BnB is all about the host and hosts claim they are all about the guest - you know what? Air BnB is now a large corp. what they really care about is the profit.

As I stated in my previous response, Air BnB confirmed, in one of their emails to me, that they do cover damages to property other than the host's property. Also, you claim to be a hotel - do you have emergency exits clearly marked and fire extinguishers readily available? Are the furnishings in your rooms fire rated? Are you adequately insured should something go wrong with one of your guests? Are your policies readily available and clear to your guests? Do guests have REAL recourse should something go wrong? The truth is that you are not a hotel and this type of business is disruptive to cities by eliminating rental units - all in the name of profits. To make matters worse, as a guest, you don't know what you're walking in to - I've now read so many articles about properies that were misrepresented and yet they remain up on the Air BnB site. A big issue in both Canada and the U.S. is that this company has not been forthcoming and is fighting paying their fair share of taxes - taxes that fund shcools, roads and, in the case of Canada,health care. 

The one thing I've learned is that you get what you pay for - sure Air BnB is cheap and, most of the time, it's ok but there is absolutely NO recourse or support for either the guest or the host when it doesn't go to plan. Sometimes cheap turns out to be more expensive than you can imagine. Good luck with your venture and I hope that you never need support from this company.

[Maria1146]

I can't seem to edit my post but did want to add that Air BnB sells itself as MORE than a simple booking company! They make certain statements, representations actually - including referring to the non-existent million dollar "insurance" - to entice hosts and guests. Simple booking companies don't do that - sure they may guarantee that they can get you the lowest price but that's it. 

My SIL lives on an island off the coast of Holland (Texel, should anyone care to visit - it's truly beautiful!) she rents out two rooms and a cottage on her property via Air BnB as well as a local Bed and Breakfast booking site. She views Air BnB and the B and B site differently - she lists her property on the B and B  site for a flat monthly rate. The B and B site doesn't claim anything and it literally is just like a bulletin board that you can book your stay through.

Here is where the "sharing economy" crap falls down - there is inadequate protection for consumers when things go wrong. That's why it's better, and safer, to stay at hotels that have to live up to safety regulations and pay their taxes. 

[David126]

Actually, they can and will be held liable 

That is a matter for a Court, anybody can sue or threaten to sue anybody especially of course in the US. I would have thought you would be more focussed on the personal injury aspect than the door. That tends to be a much much larger sum.

Due Dilligence

This would be certainly an interesting legal development if a person renting a room and their booking service was required to undertake such a detailed background check. Simply does not apply, would kill the Hotel/Accomodation business stone dead. And quite a few other businesses. Can not imagine Home Depot would be renting too many chainsaws....

Damage to other people's property

They provide the Host with limited  Public Liability Insurance, you can read about it on the AirBnB site, can not see how it applies in this case. Of course all Hosts should have a comprehensive Insurance Policy of their own, but yet again for your situation there has to be a basis to hold the Host liable.

I am a really small Hotel, but yes it a Commercial property and I have to comply with all fire regulations etc. My property was built as a Hotel, it is is a historic building I am still working on restoring and will be at max a 8 room Bed and Breakfast. With 3 rooms AirBnB suits my current operation and style and I will no doubt continue using it in part. I personally know a local 20 room Hotel that is listed on AirBnB, largest I have seen pinging around had 100 ish rooms, usually larger operations list a few of their rooms to get exposure to the AirBnB booking system. Obviously having all your eggs in one basket and just using one booking system is risky, I assume the larger operations use mutiple booking systems and their own direct site. I used to have my own web site but with just 3  relatively cheap rooms not currently worth it.

There is a whole range of properties on AirBnB, I think the minimum is $12 a night, in some areas there are properties listed at many thousands a night, everything from a sofa to muti million dollar properties. Yachts, tree houses, Camper Vans, you name it.

AirBnB has a bit of gloss to try and differentiate itself but at its heart is a booking system, the Trust aspect is just gloss.

Anyway I am intrigued to see how things go, please do keep us updated.

[Maria1146]

We are definitely upset about my son's injuries but he is an adult and he's trying to decide what he should do - he has consulted with a lawyer and is trying to decide what, if anything, he wants to do. As you may be aware, we have universal health care in Canada so he/we are not out of pocket for his medical treatment except for a $45 ambulance fee which is a mere drop in the bucket and hardly anything to worry about. He is healing up but he is an accountant and had to work the next day looking like he'd been in a bar fight. As a matter of fact, one of the firm's partners actually made a comment to that effect.

To be clear, we are not after money for the sake of money, we are after being made whole and not spending a penny out of pocket for a situation that we did not create. The door estimates have come in higher than we expected - more than double what is being payed out by our insurer. And we want to be fair - we are getting four quotes to ensure we are not getting gouged. We are still waiting for two more quotes to come in including one from a neighbour who owns a door and window company who is sympathetic and trying to get us the best deal he can. If we manage to get a door within what our insurance company has paid out, we would gladly consider this case closed even though our homeowner's premiums will likely increase. I think we would be relieved to just move on with the criminal case. We're tired and somewhat overwhelmed by this situation.

We are concerned with the door because it is not secure in its current state and the guest and his guests know where we live (they are from the same city.) At this point the guest has been brought in by police and provided the names of those individuals causing the damage. They will most certainly be charged with assualt and property damage greater than $6000. Right or wrong, we are worried about some kind of retaliation though the police have told us this is not likely. We have not slept well since this all happened. As it is, if we ordered a new door today, we are still at least six to eight weeks away from installation.

Air BnB has its own insurance company and it is through their insurer that they pay out claims. Our adjuster knows several of the adjusters at Air BnB's company so perhaps he is more familiar with the system than either you or I are. Again, Air BnB did confirm to me in an email that they will pay out for damage to property other than the host's. Air BnB is a $30 bn corporation and is definitely representing itself as something more than a booking company - they really need to stop doing that if they are not going to live up to their statements, implied or otherwise.

I wish you all the best in your business endevours! Your property sounds amazing and it seems like you are a responsible host, that's all any guest can ask for.

ETA - We are also still considering the media. We've already approached our local TV news channel and they are very interested in this story because our city wants to regulate short term rentals such as Air BnB and most people don't think the regulations go far enough. Our story would certainly prove that. If we haven't heard anything by Friday this week then we will have no choice but to warn potential hosts about this company and the lies (misrepresentations, whatever you want to call them) they are telling. By all means, be a host, but go into it knowing the potential pit falls and that you are, despite what this company says, at best, minimally covered should anything happen.

[Christine442]

please add me to any class action, or media coverage.  Airbnb is shady!  I jumped through all their hoops twice just to get an email stating that they will do nothing for the damage caused by a guest...

[Christine442]

I have the same situation - will be filing litigation.  if anyone wants to join the suit.  reply and we can talk on the phone - or in real life.

[David126]

Obviously in the US first thing people think of is Medical Expenses, counds like your Son had not loss of earning but undoubtedly pain and suffering. Any basis he may have legally is the same as any basis you have so I would look at them in tandem.

My back ground is Insurance, I had dealings with Canada but not at the personal level.

Usually how a claim for something like this works on your Home Insurance is that you have cover on a Reinstatement as New basis, so you get your estimates submit them to your Insurer who agree one of them and they either pay the Contractor direct or reimburse you. Subject of course to any deductable/excess, not sure what the normal term is in Canada.

I may have misunderstood but you make it sound like they want to settle for a given sum and leave you to pay any balance. Having paid you the Insurer has a right call Subrogation to go after anybody who can be liable just like in a car accident. But your cost should just be the deductible/excess.

[Maria1146]

Despite owning a home for 30+ years, this is our first claim so we are really newbies to this. The insurance company sent out a door specialist and he determined that the door was irreparable and would need to be replaced. He also installed a special strike plate to make the door more secure and provided a replacement value to our insurer. Our insurer, in turn, payed out that amount less our deductible of $1,000. We were fortunate that the host gave us the deductible amount as a show of good faith (though, in reality, he needed a little encouragement to do so.) We have reported to Air BnB that the host gave us this amount.

We were originally going to use the door specialist for the new door but a couple of things worried us:

1. He promised to come back the next day and board up the broken door lite but he neither showed nor called and my husband ended up taking the day off for nothing. We realize that contractors are busy but a quick call is all that it would have taken so that we were not wasting our day waiting for him.

2. He gave us a book of doors and lites to choose from but they were of a lesser quality than the door that we had (particularly the door lites) and anything above that was more money and wouldn't come in within the sum alloted by our insurance company.

We weren't confident in his ability to do the job on time and within the price he gave the insurance company so we thought it best to shop around. Our door was not that old, it was replaced about 8 years ago. We may still have to use him and hope for the best but we want to make sure that we are getting what we had not a lesser product. It's kind of a whirlwind situation -  it was very quick and we didn't think to argue with the insurance company about how our door was valued. We will be sending them an email encouraging them to get a different door specialist because this guy did not inspire confidence - it wasn't even clear what he was going to replace the door with.

It works the same way with cars so, for example, if you are in a car accident, you bring your car to an insurance approved shop and they fix it and give you a rental. The insured has no clue what is being payed out - it's just done.

[David126]

They offered a cash settlement and you took it, personally I would not have done that as you never know until you have the final bill, always things that can come up. I do not know if you can reopen the claim, you may have agreed in full and final settlement, but worth trying.

[Maria1146]

Yes, I think that you are right except, of course, we were relying on the expert they sent to provide a fair evaluation of the door. Again, this is our first home owner's claim. We are thinking about trying to re-open the case but not sure they will do that. 

What we didn't realize is that the cost of a new door would have more than doubled in the space of eight to nine years.

[Emily280]

Hi there, 

I'm a British journalist interested in covering this story. I'm keen to hear about damages done to properties if anyone would like to discuss please let me know.

Thanks, 

Emily

[Eleanor16]

Hi folks

We're looking for some advice or help please...

A guest damaged our property and left it in a complete mess that took more than three times the usual length of time to clean and bring back to standard.  They admitted to the damage and agreed to pay for it in writing via the airbnb message facility.  

We include a £200 damage deposit in our listing/bookings.  The total claim was circa £219 including the additional cleaning, which the guest disputed.

We submitted the claim on time, included photographs of the damage and an invoice from our cleaner.

Airbnb has refused to pay out at all, not even on the damage element from the damage deposit!!

Our cleaner is a school mum and they basically told us they didn't believe the invoice was genuine because they could not find her company listed...she's a school mum not a limited company.  The fact they implied we are liers has me incensed.

They have now told us repeatedley that their decision is final, we keep contacing them and the end result is the same refusal to pay out and communicate further.

We are superhosts, whatever that really amounts to, and up to this point we have been singing their praises but I'm utterly disgusted with the way in which airbnb has handled this matter.  How can they possibly refuse to pay out on the damage element when they admitted it, agreed to pay, we include a damage deposit and submitted photographs of the damage caused?

We will continue to contact them and reopen the issue, we refuse to let this go, but would be grateful for any advice from others who have had success or a similar experience.

It's only £200 and could have been a lot worse, I feel for those who have been left significantly more out of pocket, but it's the principle of this.

Emily, if we do not get a satisfactory resolution from airbnb we will happily speak with you to help raise awareness of the pitfalls of using the service.

Eleanor