Couple of Thoughts on Airbnb

Couple of Thoughts on Airbnb

Hi, I have been a regular Airbnb guest user for several years. I've noticed some trends occuring in the last year or two, that for me have changed my attititude about the service. I think it's a fantastic resource overall. But I'd just like to voice my two concerns and solicit some friendly opinions. Because, I'm only one perspective, myself. 

 

1) Recently I looked at a studio in a scenic town in a mountain state. It was $65/night, which is totally fine. However, there was a $50 cleaning fee. Then a $30 service fee (Airbnb's cut), then a $24 occupancy tax. What was a raw rate of $195 for three nights became a total of $299. This strikes me as a rather excessive amount of add-ons? I realize it's not centralized effort - each entity adds on their fee as necessary. But it changes the overall picture for the user, and the decision making process. I understand fees, but it just seems excessive amount to have to factor as a burden on the guest side of the equation. $299 is a heck of a lot more than 195. 

 

2) I have noticed that using Airbnb in other countries is significantly less expensive than in the U.S. Significantly. Which leads me to a broader philosophical point about hosts who want to capitalize on their extra space/property, vs the opportunity to inflate and gouge guests. The word "greed" comes to mind, but I don't want to make as much of a negative accusation about hosts. And I completely understand the market forces at play, the price will be what the market will bear. But I have noticed even in remote towns, not big cities, average nightly rates well above $100, 200, and I'm thinking, does it really need to be *that* expensive? People use Airbnb in part to avoid the excessive costs of a hotel. But Airbnb rates in the US seem to be skyrocketing. I have used Airbnb in Europe quite a lot, and it is a joy because people are not trying to always push the limits of how high they can charge. Rates are attractive and easily affordable. Just sayin'

 

Thoughts?  

132 Replies 132
Carol239
Level 2
Clements, MN

Just a note from the host perspective.  We have a condo that we rent when we are not there using it, we live in another state.  This requires us to hire a cleaning crew to wash all the lines, bath towels and beach towels and clean the entire space, we charge exactly what they charge us.  We also are required by state and local government to collect lodging taxes and would not want to try to sneak by and get caught.  These fees and taxes are shown before you book and you always have the choice to look at another rental, but in our area all rentals are required to collect lodging tax.

Jayesh0
Level 10
Urangan, Australia

@Christopher64

 

On another topic altogether - I know you sound a bit fed up and I don't want to upset you by replying but this is a totally different answer and it sounds like you are really searching for host perspective.  

 

We had to put our prices up after we had a bad batch of guests do a lot of damage and received no compensation.  Airbnb's reply when the guest refused to authorize any payment was to tell us to put our prices up to recover our losses - this was with photos, receipts and the whole resolution centre hoops danced through.  Basically hosts do not have access to their damage deposit and most frequently get paid out at a rate of about 10% of their actual loss.  We did not even get the measily 10%.

 

We went down to a 4.2 / 5 mostly because of the cottage having guests who did not value what we offer.  We had to raise prices on the Spa Cottage to recuperate about $800 in damage from one set of guests - not including my FREE labour (by the way) to bring it to an acceptable state for the housekeepers to enter.  This declining compensation is special to Airbnb guests and they are creating a culture of guests who know this.  Hosts have to compensate by having a cushion for bad guests.

 

Suprisingly, after raising the price we have had the BEST guests who are SO appreciative and find the property is excellent value for money!  I don't really pay much credence to the superhost status - it is really mostly that hosts have figured out how to get super guests.  My attitude has totally shifted now that we are attracting such wonderful guests and this would never have happened if we had not raised the price.

 

I do sympathise with the added on fees.  I think this is regional.  We have a 10% GST fee and the cleaning fee that we incorporate into the price.  For those who think we are overpricing on this, we find that the longer a guest stays, the more cleaning there is to do.  We may even have to bring in a 3rd person to get the cleaning done on time.  

 

I think this hurts us when guests do an initial search but they are happy when they fall in love with the property and key in dates and find no fees beyond the standard Airbnb charges.  Perhaps you should also do a search of hotels as the closest one to us that offers similar amenities and is not even as nice is $350 per night as opposed to our $225 without fees. 

 

I really believe that most hosts are doing the best that they can.  Until we get a damage deposit that we control, we have to add on to cover expenses that we will never recover from guests who just click decline when the request is made for compenasation.  With so many of us mindful of non discrimination and hosting new guests, this is just a roll of the dice that we have to factor into the pricing, not so much greed as self preservation.

 

Lisa

Bruce43
Level 10
Kfar Blum, Israel

Israeli Tax Authority Sets Its Sights on Airbnb


More than 30 percent of owners fail to report income from short-term leases arranged through Airbnb website.

 

128,000 guests from 124 countries used Airbnb while visiting Israel.

 

 

The Israel Tax Authority is targeting homeowners who rent out their properties to tourists, after finding that more than 30 percent of them had not reported their income from short-term leases.


As part of a broadly based effort to combat tax evasion and black market capital, the authority has been conducting snap audits in Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Haifa, and Eilat of short-term lessors, many of whom work through Airbnb — the web-based service that pairs homeowners and short-term tenants.


Most homeowners who failed to report their rental income to the authority claimed they didn’t know they had to.


It’s possible, however, that change is afoot in the short-term rental market. The Tourism Ministry is currently considering suggesting a plan to the Tax Authority that would have short-term lessors pay a 35 percent tax rate.

 

This would be collected via apartment rental firms such as Airbnb. There is also a proposal that would impose a flat 400-shekel ($106) monthly fee on lessors.


In recent years, the short-term rental market has blossomed in Israel. Although this activity is entirely public on the internet, the homeowners’ income is sometimes not reported, or not accurately reported, to the Tax Authority.


Airbnb pairs landlords and short-term renters in more than 190 countries. The authorities in New York, Berlin, and Barcelona have already openly come out against Airbnb for permitting properties to be rented contrary to building regulations and local bylaws.

 

In Berlin, landlords must obtain a special municipal permit to rent via Airbnb, with violators facing fines of more than 100,000 euros ($110,000).


Last year in Tel Aviv alone, there were more than 6,500 short-term rentals (including sublets), while Countrywide the figure was more than 10,000, the Tourism Ministry reported. Short-term leases can run from a few days to a few months


Until new regulations come into force to clarify the situation, it’s important that homeowners verify that they can rent out their properties without running afoul of the terms of building permits.


They should also check various taxation options and consider tax benefits available to those leasing residential property on a long-term basis. It’s also worth comparing the tax take on vacation rentals — where revenue is fully taxed — and the option of a flat 10 percent rate if the property is rented for residential use and not to a business.


Homeowners whose facilities are being used for commercial purposes must disclose the business activity and pay income tax in full (as well as VAT and municipal tax). The law on taxation of residential rentals provides an exemption on rental income of up to 5,030 shekels (as of this year). The exemption does not include rentals or sublets for commercial purposes.


A year ago, the Israel Hotel Association approached Tel Aviv Mayor Ron Huldai, asking that the tourist rental market in the city be regulated. Such regulation could generate as much as 175 million shekels in taxes for the city.


It has been claimed that short-term rentals not only harm the hotel sector — where millions are invested in business development — but also make it more expensive for tenants who are looking for long-term rentals because the short-term rental business removes some properties from the long-term rental market.


.


@Bruce43

 

Wow, excellent post!  Makes me glad we don't even have to get a business licence and are still living in the wild west.  Kudo's to all the battlers out there giving a big chunk to the government!

 

Lisa

@Bruce43  and Lisa (see note below about why it won't allow your profile name in full)

Really useful and interesting info in both your posts - I am grateful to read them, but sorry they had to come at the tail end of this bitter negative focus from the original poster.

@Bruce43 that is a great article from your newspaper - and reflects the latest happenings in Las Vegas. Interestingly, as one would first think (especially in Las Vegas which is historically a hotel dominated city) this pressure isn't coming just from the hotel industry - but mainly from community & neighborhoods complaining. The City & County authorities are also starting to wake up and are imposing wildy differing responses and taxes, and using the actual booking agencies listings to identify and chase down non-payers.

Lisa  - loved your Spa Cottage example about pricing - and how worrying (but believable) that there is an underclass of guest who know that, through Airbnb, there is a possibility to rent a place with no damage comeback or recompensatory responsibilty - all they have to do is search out and find the right property and combination of inexperienced/new host. Just like any large insurance or medical underwriters department - Airbnb claim staff must have so many examples of this that we will never see!

 

Best Wishes.

 

 

PS - LISA - the system is still removing your profile name in my reply! When I push send - it flashes up this message -

"Your post has been changed because invalid HTML was found in the message body. The invalid HTML has been removed. Please review the message and submit the message when you are satisfied."

And it removed the 2 name inserts I had for you next to Bruce's...... This isn't just my settings - it is more general..... so when you read this post - was it because you were notified that someone had mentioned you? If not - then please let Lizzie know to correct it.....

Farah1
Level 10
Seattle, WA

I personally not sure how charging a cleaning fee can be considered/seen as "cheating". It is not a surprise and there is no hidden fee.

You see it and read it before you book the place. It is clearly and honestly telling you what are the breakdown of your total booking fee, this cannot be fairer than that. It's not like it says $125 for example, then on your bank statement, you are being charged $150. The same as if you book a hotel room or any accommodation for other sites. It will tell you how much is the room and how much is tax (and any other fee - if any). I feel like nobody has the rights to push their "way" of doing Airbnb to others.

The way I understand this post is that you have concerns about it. So, some hosts try to explain the reasoning behind some of your concerns (including cleaning fee) and the writer of the post seemed to feel offended instead.

If you charge a cleaning fee, great. If you don't, great. Do what works for you as long as it is "fair" (I know this can be subjective) to everyone. If you charge a cleaning fee and the place reflects it, then that's good! And if you prefer to add it to your base price, you can do that too.

The way I see it > the price that you see when you do your research supposedly for the room/unit that you are booking. There is nothing that says it must/supposed to include cleaning fee.

I host and travel with airbnb, so more or less I understand both perspectives. I charge $25 cleaning fee for a 1BR apartment unit that I rent out and it's always busy.

When I travel with my husband and I see that there are places that charge for a 2nd person, if I do not think it is worth it/I don't want to pay for it, then I just look for other places.

"...the opportunity to inflate and gouge guests.  The word "greed" comes to mind, but I don't want to make as much of a negative accusation about hosts."
 
Yikes Christopher, you just did!  
 
To presume to know the cost of operation and the reasons behind hosting for each host while using flawed math is disingenuous.  
 
You fail to mention that hosts pay a well-deserved commission to Airbnb for each reservation.  Your inclusion of 'occupancy tax' as host fee is misleading.  Airbnb will collect occupancy tax from the guest and is paid directly to the local jurisdiction to meet local tax requirements.  Hardly a gouge by the host.
 
The Airbnb website offers an extensive,  well laid out grid of listings in which a potential guest can define their search and choose what they are willing or unwilling to pay.  There is a listing for most any guest, and value is found when guests don't over buy their needs and stay within their budgets.  
Polly19
Level 1
Cary, NC

Hi - I have to agree that the cleaning fees and other fees are adding up.  I do not charge a cleaning fee since I clean up myself - if I hired someone because I am not available/not living there, I can understand the cleaning fee. If that were my arrangement, I personally think I would try to adjust my room rate in order to allow for at least a portion of the true cleaning fees.  Room rates vary in most places depending on season.  I think many hosts could reduce their room rate a bit to help offset especially if cleaning themselves. There isn't anything we can do about the taxes and fees from Airbnb - altho I do think that the Airbnb fees could possibly also drop a few dollars to help.  The point of Airbnb was to be a win-win for both users and hosts, and I'm trying to stay in that spirit. 

Leola0
Level 2
Irvington, NY

Thanks for your feedback, Chris, which I will keep in mind for my pricing. 

I think a lot of the problem in the US is that insurance companies, if they are willing to ensure Airbnb dwellings, charge more than double the normal rate if a home is rented through Airbnb; guests expect a home to be "hotel clean" which takes a lot of time and/or cleaning service expenses; Airbnb provides the platform, money exchange, some protection to hosts and guests, etc. so they need to be paid; hotel lobbies who recognize Airbnb has become competition have made sure that hotel taxes apply to Airbnb rentals; the high cost of housing in many areas of the US (remember that the host may have a mortgage, property taxes, higher utilities, wear and tear on the home, etc.); some local municipalities charge hosts a registration fee...all this adds up to lots of expenses and fees that need to be covered by hosts and renters.

As a host, I like very much being able to share the extra space in my lovely home and I want to make it affordable.  Airbnb guests are wonderful -- I feel lucky to meet so many great people!  But, the reality is that what I charge almost makes the mortgage but doesn't cover anything else.  Compared to hotels in the area, it's still a good price for renters and I benefit from having extra mortgage money and the gratification of having people enjoy my home as much as I do.

Like you said, Chris, this is just my perspective.  It's helpful to hear each other's opinion so Airbnb can continue to be a win-win type situation.

Folks I'd like to clarify some of my comments and conclude my presence on this thread. I want to thank everyone who contributed their thoughts on hosting and the costs. I lost my cool a bit yesterday on this thread, and I want to apologize if I offended anyone. I should have known better than to give in to my lower instincts in my response, though I did feel like my opening comments were misunderstood by some, and it got the better of me. The intention of my post was to start a dialog, and it certainly did. I got frustrated when some isolated my choice of words and become defensive regarding my comments about "greed" - which was not at all the central theme of my comments. Though it was a lazy choice of words, so I can sympathize with that. My mistake. The topic of cleaning fees was not really my focus either. I was just trying to see if anyone could relate to or shed light on how all the fees add up so significantly for the guests, to see if it was indeed an issue that is shared more broadly. I did not realize it was a forum predominantly populated by hosts either. I didn't mean to attack the hosts.  

 

I learned a lot about the hosts perspective though, from all the comments of course, so that is enlightening and helpful towards understanding the efforts that hosts make, and how they protect against the occasional disrespecteful guest. I do not need chocolates on my pillow. Although I was tried the hosting side for a brief period, I use Airbnb frequently as a guest. I pride myself on being a quiet, polite, clean, and respectful guest, and look forward to using Airbnb again. So again my apologies if I offended anyone.

 

Cheers,

Chris

I literally DO put a wrapped chocolate on each bed pillow for my guests as a goofy gesture! No one has complained about that!

@Christopher64

All good. Respect to you for coming back and emphasizing your original points - and for apologizing. That is appreciated, as well as the discussion (on point or strayed) as it prompted a lot of interaction and thought, and no doubt will have helped several hosts, both old and new, to have an alternative think about things. So thanks!

On your original point -just a quickie from me - I am disturbed that any potential guests get an additional 22% whacked onto my booking rate. 11% for NC State taxes (State and County) and Airbnb 11% (and I know the Airbnb fee went up in order to collect the State Tax so a double edged sword there). So for my humble cabin on the mountain - my guests are paying $142 a night for a 2 night stay (it does go down for a longer stay but 2-3 nights is my average booking) and I get paid $109 a night.

I have done my homework, researched the area and competition, and add a lot of 'extras' (food, wine, charcoal/firewood, hot tub etc) that others charge extra for (that bugs me as well!), and I know that $140 (total) a night is good value. But I know that if I charged $140 as my base rate, the additional taxes and fees would push it up into that 'greedy' level (my words not yours) where the quality of offering does not match the price charged. So I charge less (base price $87 plus cleaning) to keep it real - but have more really happy/satisfied clients (so far at least!).

And you would be more than welcome to stay as our guest - anytime. (And I offer a 10% 'great guest' discount for returning guests and Airbnb fellow hosts - so you would qualify for that as well! ;-).

 

Enjoy your travels.

PS. The only chocolate to be found on offer in our cabin goes with the marshmallows and graham crackers for 'smores at the firepit!

Karen313
Level 10
San Clemente, CA

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