Got a fine from the city because of guests behavior - Airbnb refuses to collect. Thoughts?

[Ana-and-David0]

Not long ago I was fined by the city for unpermited gathering and exessive noise. It seems my guests had a party and neighbors called the cops and code enforcement. On top of it I was also fined by my HOA for exessive noise.

I submitted all of the paperwork (invoices, fees, hearing I have to attend in the city) and video recordings coroborating this event.

Unfortunately Airbnb refuses to collect these fees from either security deposit or host guarantee.

Does anyone have an idea how to fight this ridicilous situation. At this point I owe over $2000 in fees alone and everyone is playing dumb.

[Inna22]

@Sam397

because our terms with Airbnb prohibit us from doing that. And because the fine is given to the host for host's failure to prevent the behavior, not to the guest for the guest’s misbehaving. Of course you can spend time and money arguing all of this in court (or in arbitration)

[Ana-and-David0]

Well not quite. Fee was given for the infraction regardless who caused it or how was it caused. It is tied to my property because it happened on my property. 

I do not think that anyone can expect that I can "prevent" any other person from doing anything they want. I can just react to what already happened. Specifically this party started at 2AM. How are you to prevent that?

[Fred13]

  This 'situation' does bring up a most interesting dilemma and perhaps hints at a future trend. IF hosts are not 'able' to prevent certain actions by the guest during their stay that will have a negative impact on one's neighbor, especially one governed by either an HOA or local laws, because they are NOT even 'there' - who will indeed be held responsible?

    It is no different if the owner of a home is having just friends over, they cause chaos - the owner will certainly be held resposible.  The fact they are send via Airbnb shouldn't make a difference, on the contrary, In that latter case it is a 'business' situation which is the reason it happened in the first place. 

   Which of course this all touches on the reality of 'absentee' hosting, meaning those hosts NOT on the premises, or not have someone else watching what is going on. If a host is running multiple listings, then the chance of guest disruptive behavior will be much higher, or a listing which allowing say 10-15 persons, which are definitely harder to control without direct supervision. Is Host Guarantee or that Security 'Deposit' suppose to cover such situations?

   An interesting question folks, and one that will certainly come up a lot more in the future as communities are becoming so 'touchy' about the potential impact of STRenting and so aggressive to stop them.

@Ana-and-David0 You too come across as cool people. The above is just meant as  philosophical question that came to mind. Here, we tend to discuss everything. 🙂 

[David126]

@Fred13

This is a management issue and as a property owner you need to address it and deal with ot or suffer the consequences.

[Fred13]

   Precisely @David0. It never dawned on me that I could just add a listing in Airbnb, and not 'keep a close eye'  on it, at all times, personally or via someone else, because after all guests are largely  'strangers' to hosts and Airbnb.  Somehow, the original model has been 'stretched',  by the hosts actually; in example, many who have made investments in multiple properties to do run through Airbnb and without enough safeguards, are then expecting  Airbnb's infamous 'Host Guarantee' to cover them.

   If Airbnb continues to keep that insane policy in the future, perhaps the actions of municipalities holding hosts personally responsible for 'visitors' to their property (guest or not), will finally force them to drop it.

   I have never been a fan of this policy, for in essence, it is forever being used as 'group insurance', its cost being shared by all.  

[Ana-and-David0]

Oh of course! The title of it was a discussion so I welcome all opinions.

The problem with that entire behavior is that even if you watch the cameras 24/7 you can not do anything to prevent it. Example: Guest rolls to the property in a buss full of people. Followed by 7 cars full of people. As they are exiting the buss they bring their own sound system with them. Takes them all but 10 minutes to hook it up and start blasting. 
I can't even put my shoes on in 10 minutes, let alone go to the other side of the city and break their shenanigans. 

[Fred13]

If someone was there to greet them, to make sure all is cool, perfect. If absentee, and cameras show a multitude arrives to play havoc on ~your~ neighborhood, need to have 'Tony the enforcer' ready if you can't be there quick enough.

[Ange2]

@Fred13   Ha!  Amusing but true.  Sometimes, I have 'Tony the enforcer'  sitting at my kitchen table when the guest arrives. Always best to have your own back-up plan.

[Fred13]

Hahaha, Tony/Guido. same difference. Actually, Guido tends to go postal at times, a bit of a loose cannon; one time he smashed a guest's face for not reading the House Rules, can't have that. 😉 

[Kiet--Sean-0]

Airbnb is horrible when it come to this type of situation.  They did not secure payment for a reservation at my place, still allow them to check-in  - I caled Airbnb and send them messages several times and kept telling me its ok - we are working it out.  The people ended up gettign thrown out of my place because books were torn, spill food and drinks every where.  Allow her handicap child to pee and poop on my floors and mattress.  I felt bad and took her out of my apartment, which is designed by an interior designer, and pay for a hotel night for her and her children.  All this while Airbnb still continue to tell me that they are trying to work with her to secure payment.  Then when it come to damges, they asked for pictures reciepts and all that was given.  Well over $2000 in damages and not to mention the almost 2 weeks of my time.  Took cleaning crew of 2 - 6 hours to clean up the apartment at $25 an hour.  

Airbnb come back with " Congratulation!!! we approved your damges at $183"  because the damages did not effect the functionality of the item ( refering to my Mattress).  What a Joke!! That's the environment Airbnb want its host to provide to guest.....paying top dollars to come a sleep on a mattress that smell like urine and poop!!!  We all be better off taking our business to VRBO and HomeAway!!

[Ana-and-David0]

@Kiet0 maybe you responded to a wrong thread?

[Inna22]

@Fred13 Why do you think of an idea of them letting us opt out of host guarantee and lower our fee (or guest fee)- doesn’t matter to me, all comes down to how much my place costs to the guest. Or keep it only for hosts who share there own space? 

[David126]

@Inna22

ABB sell it as something of great value and Hosts might expect a significant discount if it was deleted.

[Fred13]

 @Inna22   Maybe, drop the universal Host Guarantee and sell 'host' insurance separately, 3 tiers, so each host can select a policy according to their needs. Inexpensive, within reach of most hosts. 

    I got a letter from Airbnb on this very subject, and that is what I suggested. Imagine, insurance with sane rules and not those crazy impossible-to-meet requirements of timing, etc.

   As is, the situation is way too crazy. 

[Inna22]

@Fred13 I am paying Farmers for a special STR policy. I would be just as happy to pay ABB for it