London 90 day letting regulation 2017

[Susi7]

Hi all,

So I've received the email today from AirBnB saying that listings will automatically be stopped after 90 days hosting due to the new regulation in 2017 for London. 

I rent my whole house out now and then when I'm away, and separate rooms when I am there. 

Do you know if the regulation applies to single lodging rooms (which would presumably fall under the Rent-A-Room scheme rather than whole home letting?).

Thanks!

Susi

[Ralph18]

@Zandra0 Right - they're asking you to certify that you have permission:

"If you want to host more often, you will need to certify that you have permission to do so or apply for the relevant permissions from your local council."

The question then remains what certify means:

"I have permission to host beyond 90 nights. How do I keep my listing open to bookings?

You'll be able to notify the system of your permission in spring 2017. No listings will be limited until the mechanism for providing this is communicated."

So evidently they don't know yet what they're going to ask for, or how they'll do it. Interesting to see how far they step into this. What they have said about sharing data is:

"Does this limit mean that my data has been shared with local London authorities?

The protection of our users’ personal data is and remains a priority for us. <snip> We have not shared the personal data of our users with the London local authorities in connection with this system change. So the onus is still on the local authority to run the checks."

[Michael502]

The airbnb line at the meeting was that they do not/will not share your data with authorities UNLESS you self-certify in wh. case your data can be shard. [I didn't know that about normal non-sharing  data. I thought that authorities would have automatic access to all such financial income data. Apparently not. Comments v. welcome]

[Ralph18]

There is a fair amount of data that is already out there. I know one national newspaper ran an article about the amount of properties that were a full residence and booked for more than 90 days. They were able to break it down by Local Authority (LA) etc. Whether they had specific addresses wasn't clear.

As for financial data information, LAs shouldn't be able to access your tax return - or I'd be very surprised if they did. There could be the scenario where the HMRC indicate to LAs that an individual's return includes airbnb income, without the specific numbers, which would then allow the LAs to follow up and investigate what's going on there.

All this assumes that this is one of the highest priority for HMRC and LAs and that they have a) data readily available and easy to share between themselves without breaking data privacy rules (unlikely for many reasons including different systems and no shared management) and b) have the resources available to manage the whole effort - identification, investigation, prosecuting, fee collecting etc. If there is more income to be had than the cost of processes and collecting and prosecuting etc. they'll do it. Writing it all out like this makes it feel super unlikely that they'll follow up on this though. Although maybe I'm being hugely optimistic.

[Michael502]

Thx Ralph. QUick question. Are you saying  HMRC as distinct from LA's has access to your airb etc income  data?

[Ralph18]

@Michael502 so I submit a tax return to HMRC explaining my income (which includes what I get from airbnb) and airbnb declare revenue to HMRC including data of who they've received revenue from (who and how much) - so logic says that HMRC could put that together and work out how much of the income I get comes from airbnb. That is IF they were so inclined to do so, and again, assuming this was their highest priority - rather than chase down tax fraud for example. As I understand, they're struggling to process the basics and answer the phone, let along open a whole new range of investigations.

But I see absolutely no reason why a LA would have access to the specifics of my tax return. And I struggle to see what justification HMRC would have for sharing my tax return data with them. It could only be an indication at best.

And who's to say what income I could get in 90 days! It might look like a years worth to some people and 30 days to others... so not the greatest indicator of this going on anyway.

I don't know - maybe I'm making too many leaps here.

[Michael502]

Ralph, purely the 1st part I questioned : a) you (or I) don't submit airbnb inc only overall income to HMRC

and b) question mark - do airbnb (and/or other sites) submit your income details to HMRC?  My impression after meeting is "no" - altho i'd thought in this day and age, that is perfectly pos.    Re LA's etc, I take your points.

[Ronda4]

Since receiving the email from Airbnb about the 90-day capping for entire properties, I have been avidly reading the comments from many hosts hoping that someone will conclusively explain how this will work.

I have a self-contained Studio in my house, but because it has its own entrance I list it as an entire property, although it is part of my house. I changed the listing to read ‘private room’ but have had far less views so I have changed it back.  I only host when I am there, so am not an absentee landlord.

Will Airbnb de-list me after 90 days of bookings?

[Michael502]

Ronda - they will block not delist you fpr further bookings that year, but still take for next year.

Your experience is interesting - cos I'm thinking of same. How bad was deterioration in views/bookings over what period? Can you be sure it had nothing to do with normal erratic clustering of views/bookings (wh I at any rate get while doing pretty well over year)? Thx

[Ronda4]

@Michael502  thanks for your reply this was confirmed by Airbnb and I have reluctantly changed my listing to 'private room'.  Will have to keep an eye on things.

[Ronda4]

Reading through the posts on this thread I can see that there is considerable peripheral confusion concerning the 90-day rule imposed by London’s LPAs.  I hope the following alleviates some of your concerns:

Everyone earning an income in the UK whether through Airbnb or otherwise has to declare this income to HMRC.   Under the Rent a Room Scheme you may be eligible to earn £7,500 per year tax free.  You can opt in to the scheme at any time if:

• you’re a resident landlord, whether or not you own your home
• you run a bed and breakfast or a guest house

You can’t use the scheme for homes converted into separate flats.

HMRC are not obliged to inform local planning authorities (LPAs) the details of your tax return, as long as you make an accurate tax return they are happy.  Airbnb do not divulge the details of individual host’s income to HMRC or the LPA.   If either body did so it would be a breach of the Data Protection Act.

Airbnb will only enforce the 90-day rule for entire property listings.  It is down to the LPAs to investigate individual cases but this an uphill task for them.  In a recent newsletter from Karen Buck, the MP for Westminster, she explained that the LPA in Westminster had a team of four working on this and they are primarily investigating absentee landlords who rent out whole properties.

Whilst 90 days for short lets is better than nothing, there is no sense in the rule for those who rent out a room in thier homes for short periods, as they are not denying the property market of an entire property.  Somethings LPAs claim is happening.

For my part I feel that there needs to be a distinction between the landlord who rents out entire properties commercially and those like myself who rent out a room in the true spirit of the sharing community.  If anyone wants to start a lobbying group I would be more than happy to lend my support.

[Julia66]

@Ronda4 you are letting out a studio that is part of your own accommodation and @Michael you are letting out the self-contained top floor of your house.  I would imagine that your local authorities would only want to implement the 90-day rule if these accommodations could be let as self-contained units to long-term renters.  Otherwise, as you state about hosts of private rooms, @Ronda4, you are "not denying the property market of an entire property".   Obviously, Airbnb's criteria may be different.

[Michael502]

Good points Julia. However, I think airbnb only cares about your classification on airbnb,  "Entire Home" or "Private Room".If you are the former, you are automatically taken as subject to the 90-day rule, even if your actual residential status is in between Home/Room. It would be nice if there were an in-between category.  Especially since there may well be many of us. And,arguably, we bring foreign currency benefits to the country (or does the gvt. take more notice of the claimed lost benefits to hotels?) 

Ironically, another rental site incl. a tick-box for something like "Host gives you space,but is available" - because quite a lot of guests like an available, discreet on site  host. It IS actually a positive from many guests' POV.

[Marcin16]

han Just a small correction. I f you earn less than 7,500 under the 'rent a romm scheme', you dont have to declare anything. Its specifically states that you are only obliged to declare earnings from a renting a room if its over 7,500. I know coz i checked this specifically as i never go over the 7,500 limit. 

[Carl-and-Elodie0]

Hi everyone,

I just saw my mail and looked the law 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/letting-rooms-in-your-home-a-guide-for-resident-landlords...

There are no limitation of day letting your room if you are a resident landlord.

In their mail airbnb mentionned entire all listing so I guess it will appy just for that

[Alon7]

Hello all

Like all of you, I received the email about 90-days limit, which got me very confused.

I have read of indications that some hosts have already tried to get planning permission or their properties, but all have been refused. Does anyone have the actualy criteria for such permission, or is it completely out of the question to explore that path (as someone here said - no LA will make that political mistake to approve a private property as a commercial one)?

In addition, would Airbnb be able to enforce to rule if I set up another listing under a different account (under partner's name for example)?

Many thanks

Alon