Blocking Security camera view to sneak in extra guest

[Judy508]

I'm new to Airbnb and hosting my 3rd group of guests. My home only allows for 4 people, clearly stated on my listing. When the guests checked in, they brought 5 people. I told them the 5th person could not stay. They said, OK he will go somewhere else to stay. Later that same evening, all 5 left for dinner as recorded on my RIng at the front door. After dinner, they came back and one of the guests obviously blocked the Ring by standing in front of it so that, I presume, they could sneak the extra guest in. I went over there today to make sure everything was ok for them, and I could not see the extra guest, but the doors to both bedrooms were closed and I didn't demand to search the house! LOL

What should I do? They clearly violated my house rule to not block the security camera. Accident? I think not. But I can't prove any of it. If they block it again tonight after they come back from dinner, should I say something? Suggestions, please!

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

@Judy508 

They clearly violated my house rule to not block the security camera.

Breaking House Rules is a reason to ask the guests to leave. your other posting makes this an easy option as they offered to leave already.

For a letting platform historically based on trust there's an awful lot of untrustworthy guests using it !

[Kaylee18]

@Judy508  You can always look into adding additional costs for additional guests, unless your accommodation does not have enough room for 5. 

This is a tricky one because I would think you need some proof that the 5th person was actually there and staying (which I am sure you are right, he probably was!). 

I am assuming your Ring is a doorbell Ring? You could always look into getting a camera to place higher on the house so it can not be covered, for future guests. Since doorbells are easy to stand in front of and block. 

[Anonymous]

@Judy508  These are interesting times...now the crappy underbelly of guestdom already knows its way around the newfangled surveilance apps, so either you have to keep them hard to spot (and hard to jam on the transmission) or come up with an altogether different strategy.

And on that last point I have to pause. The moment these guests arrived with 5 people, it was a dead certainty that 5 people were going to end up there, no matter what anyone said. 

At that point, all your options were bad ones. You could refuse entry to the entire group, but then you're stuck with a financial loss and cancellation penalties. You could offer an exception under duress, but then deal with the stress and damage potential of a larger group than your furnishings are intended for. You could turn a blind eye and wait until you see the place at checkout, but then get stuck with the fallout of letting dodgy guests think they can get away with anything, on top of the minimal odds of getting adequate compensation for any damage they've caused. 

On the balance of things, I find outright refusing entry to be the safest, despite being the harshest in the short term. For one thing, you quickly see the quality of people you're dealing with when they're quick to act like they'll just throw friend number 5 under the bus; these don't tend to be people you want having keys to your property.  But I can also empathize with the difficulty of being a single person confronting a group of 5 angry entitled douchebags  (I'd especially hate to think of it in America where any idiot can have a gun). 

If that's the route you decide to take, the procedure would be to contrive a time-buying excuse at the door ("I'll need a little extra time to work out how to accommodate a group of your size; I'll call you as soon as I'm ready") . Jot off a quick message in Airbnb messenger confirming that a larger party than booked has arrived. Initiate your report to Airbnb that the group that arrived has exceeded your capacity and you can't accommodate them, and lubricate the process toward a penalty-free cancellation under the pretext that the group booked your property in error. And make it clear that there is no accommodation on your property until you have evidence that the extra person or people have booked elsewhere.

It's unlikely that you'll get the customer service you deserve through all this, but at every step in the process it's important to keep this as your guiding principle: It's your property. You're the boss. Airbnb is just a service that you use - and one of many.

[Chris232]

@Anonymous  @Judy508 

"These are interesting times...now the crappy underbelly of guestdom already knows its way around the newfangled surveilance apps, so either you have to keep them hard to spot (and hard to jam on the transmission) or come up with an altogether different strategy"

Why not install a dummy camera in a very prominent high position facing the front door which is out of their reach, Clearly identify this one in your listing to divert forth coming guests attention away from the doorbell Ring camera.

I know this does not help now but may help in the future to scupper your next set of chancing guests.

[Kat84]

"And on that last point I have to pause. The moment these guests arrived with 5 people, it was a dead certainty that 5 people were going to end up there, no matter what anyone said." 

And not only that... Account removal after 3 cancelations. 

Airbnb has to do something about guests showing up with undeclared people. It is definitely out of host's control! The death is more predictable than undeclared guests! You never know what particular guest will bring extra people as they will be sweet in messaging.

Some properties are just so attractive for bringing extra people. Big houses are at risk. Look at innovative people that are not scared to play games with cameras... 

[Rich-and-Yan0]

@Judy508 Yeah, that's a delicate one. @Anonymous has already outlined, in precise detail, all of the main dilemmas that you face with doing this. 

We are also new hosts and are trying to navigate our way through this very tricky (and guest-friendly) booking system. I mentioned in an earlier post this week how we had had guests who did not meet our minimum booking requirements (e.g. no government ID, no recommendations from other Airbnb hosts, etc.) were allowed to send us booking requests anyway. A couple of these were clearly groups of young people looking to party (one even said so), and after some of the horror stories we'd heard this past summer about crazy young people having trashed the places of friends we know who were hosting, we were not going to let them into our new place.

It was thus left to us to turn them down. I tried writing to Airbnb to explain, but of course, nobody reads those. And so we started off as new hosts with three acceptances and three refusals, which has us at a 50% acceptance rate. 

So, I understand how you feel. If you cancel on them, this counts against you, regardless of your reasons. With them having blocked the camera, it would also be very, very hard to prove that they had sneaked the extra guest in. They may have violated your house rules, but if you had to try to prove this to Airbnb, then they would ask for evidence--which of course, you couldn't provide.

Given that, the best solution might be to relocate the camera where it can't be blocked or get a second one, if these options are possible for you. When we started hosting, our house manager, who is also a Superhost, strongly advised us not to let guests check in with a lockbox and to make sure that she would meet them when they check in and check out, despite the inconvenience. She explained that what you have just outlined here is exactly why we would need to do it that way. Again, I don't know if this is an option for you either, but it seems like you are going to have to come up with a new strategy to combat dishonest and sneaky guests. 

Good luck!

[Shauna28]

Since your listing is for four guests, I’d adjust the reservation and add the extra guest (for a fee) noting your observations in the message. This would start a conversation trackable by ABB and support claims you may need to make in the future. The guests, knowing they were caught, may accept the adjustment. If they push back, the evidence is there in your change request. 

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

@Shauna28 @Judy508 

Adding a fee sounds like an easy thing to do. It isn't unless you already have that fee in place.

You can 'get around' it but that requires resetting your booking settings and adding an extra 'unauthorised guest booking fee'. Plus, this might be over maximum permitted occupancy levels by government or insurance requirements etc... so there's extra responsibility added onto the host. In addition you need to have the capability of accepting say 10 guests when you only actually can accommodate 8.

I prepared for this previously and have had to use it once. In the house rules I state an additional guest fee. In our settings I already place an additional guest fee. I only book our place for maximum occupancy and so the 'extra guest fee' is never normally encountered where it may be if we were to stage let our property on 2,3,4,6,8 guests. 

Confronting guests that they have too many at your property is difficult enough. If you were going to do this then you would need to be prepared to evict them for breaking your rules. Hosts wouldn't want to do that as we appreciate the organisation guest go to to get other friends or families to attend and we wouldn't deliberately want to ruin their stay, but we expect rules will be followed. If at this point you can provide options - pay additional fee OR leave - then thats the guest's choice. If they decide to stay then you send a payment request and state that it requires immediate payment, or they leave.

Regardless of what you do, you need to expect a petulant review from an expectant guest.

[Kat84]

Can you do that after the stay ended? 

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

@Kat84 

You could, if you have evidence then you should be within your rights, but if you send payment request then the guest can 'accept' but only pay you a fee they want to as payment requests do not need 100% payment.

To take your question further... you could request payment after the 14 day review I guess.

[Linda-And-Richard0]

Our last 2 bookings each brought an extra person over our maximum occupancy of 6.  The first advised me minutes before check-in that an extra person (child) would be staying at the property.  The youngster shared a bed with the parents.  Second group was 3 couples for a total of 6 persons.  On the second night, a relative of a group member that lives local stayed at the property.  Story was that person drank too much and was not safe to drive home.  The guests acknowledged the extra person but stated they did not know how to let me know the situation.  My review for them reflected their disregard for 2 house rules, of a visitor and then exceeding occupancy limit.  I will be adding an extra charge of $300.00 per person over the limit.  

[Sani3]

Before my guests check in I send them the list of my rules asking them to confirm that they  read  and understand, including one that says "only the number of guests in the reservation can enter the house, no visitors are allowed or a penalty will be charged for each extra person per night";  this rule solved my problem. I guess when you talk about money they respect the rules better.

[Thomas1033]

If you don’t have an extra guest fee entered it will say exactly extra guests no charge.  WRONG!!!  Put a huge fee in for over 4 guests.  Ours is $100 per person per night.  Hey if they want to pay it I’ll give them an air mattress and tuck them in too!!  Without an extra guest fee you won’t get diddly squat from Airbnb!