Booking to minors

[James820]

Hi All,

      I have a pending request from an 18-year-old to stay with three friends for a post-Prom weekend. I have a lot of experience with teens (I was a teacher), so I don't have an irrational fear of them. But, where I live, hosting an event where there is (or may be) underage drinking makes the host liable for any injuries and criminal charges as well. I don't know the laws specifically in Vermont, where the rental is. What is your experience? What would you do?

Thanks,

Jim

[Willow3]

How close to the border are you?  The drinking MAY be legal, and therefore not your problem.  I don't know about Vermont laws, but I would hope that so long as you are not the provider of the alchohol, you won't be liable.  The bar/server/shop would be the responsible party.  

This type of situation is tough for me.  I happen to like teenagers, and I've got one getting ready to graduate right now.  And if she and her friends wanted to rent my space, I would happily allow them to do so - they are great kids.  But there are also kids in her class I never let out of my sight, lol.  This age group is a real mixed bag.  How indestructable is your property?

[Ange2]

@James820  Difficult call,  there are many fine, upstanding, responsible 18 year olds around. But in my opinion there is a risk, and not just with 18 year olds, you say you are not around on your description. If they are up to something it gives them carte blanche to do whatever they want to do because they know no one is looking. You could try initiating a conversation as to their intent and extract some promises about no alcohol etc. but it still would be based on trust and intinct. I would find out what the local law is.  Personally speaking, and I'm sorry to say this as I know many responsible, trustworthy teenagers, I would not do it the risks are too great.

[James820]

Thanks, Willow and Ange,

       I loved working with high school age kids MOST of the time. But of course, their judgment is not fully formed and they make mistakes, as do we adults. I don't know what "border" you mean, Willow. Canada? I see that all surrounding states have a 21 minimum. (When I was growing up there, NY was 18, and many young men and women from MA and elsewhere lost their lives driving drunk back from there.)

       True: I would not be there. I believe that does make "trust" the key factor, and since I don't know the young man who inquired or his 3 (only?) friends, I worry. Also, having daughter, I remember all the "small parties" that got out of hand as additional guests showed up—not at my house, by the way.

       The local law is important. Here is CA, the host is criminally liable for allowing underage drinking. Fines are steep. And there are stairs with open railings, second floor deck, etc. Lots of things that could go wrong. 

       Thanks for your input! Leaning toward "No."

JB

[Willow3]

@James820 - yes, Canada... drinking age is 18 there.  But they would be stopped at the border if inebriated, so again, not on your property.  

Per your scenario of mom and dad going out - leaving whipppersnappers unsupervised - the alchohol is mom and dads, and they KNOW it's there.  If there is no alchohol on the premises and you are not having it delivered, you cannot be liable to my way of thinking.  For the record, I think if kids can fight a war, they can have a beer... countries with more permissive drinking attitudes (and decent mass transit! but that's nother conversation, lol) don't have the issues we have here.  But no one asks me, lol. 

[James820]

Hi Willow,

      The "enabling" element is tricky and I suspect subject to legal interpretation. I would hate to be in court for that interpretation. In CA, where I live, simply allowing minors to have alcohol, whether or not it was yours or you provided it, is a misdemeanor and carries fines. Vermont isn't that strict, as I interpret what I was told. But less the fines, there could still be legal consequences.

       I hear you about fighting a war, etc. Yes, you can kill but you can't have a beer seems very inconsistent. But the laws are what they are. 

J

[Kelly149]

@James820 ABB expects you to be willing host an 18YO. Full Stop.

(there are a few 'my insurance disallows it', 'the HOA doesn't allow it', etc exceptions but rare)

My house rules bar any illegal activities and I get names & ages of all guests, so if I have even 1 underage guest on a reservation then I am very explicit that any alcohol on the premises, at all, violates the terms of their stay and will get them an escort out (this is for all young people reservations, traveling with parents is a whole nother set of circumstances of course).

this works in my case bc 1. it's a guesthouse in my backyard, I'm on site 2. I have security cameras at the parking/entrance 3. I have no problem going and enforcing the eviction

I don't see how a host who provides no alcohol and expressly states that no alcohol is allowed could be construed as being at fault for the actions of others but it sure would be worth looking into

[James820]

Hello Kelly,

      I just spoke with local law enforcement, and they had a different read. Vermont law states that "enabling" consumption of alcohol by minors is against the law. Typically that means, "Your father and I are going out, so you kids have a good time at home." And I'm not even that close to "supervising" them. I was further advised that if one of the minors left the house and got in a car accident after drinking on the premises, I could be liable. 

       I see the language about age discrimination you cite. I also take this from the AirB&B guidelines:" Airbnb. . . does not require hosts to violate local laws or take actions that may subject them to legal liability."

      Unlike you, I am not on site, I have no security cameras, and enforcing eviction first means knowing the situation at hand, which I would not. 

      The young man sounds responsible—already addressing concerns before they are raised. But I don't know his three friends or if there will be more than three (post prom, after all). I think there are too many risks. Thanks for your words of advice, though.

Jim

[Randy-And-Diane0]

SO, I just declined two guests who had the decency to at least tell me they were 18 and 19 yo..,but there was no photo, no prior stays anywhere...was asking for a gov ID to be put on file w Airbnb asking too much? I didn’t think so in this case. What if they were really 16 and 17 yo? Who would I call if something happened to them? 

Just saying...