Mass Shooting in Airbnb house in Orinda last night, 4 dead

Lan1
Level 10
El Cerrito, CA

Mass Shooting in Airbnb house in Orinda last night, 4 dead

Breaking news:  4 dead, many injured in  an Airbnb party house in Orinda CA last night ( 10/31). The house is just few steps away from my second residence in the same street. About 10:00pm, My daughter and I were driving back to our residence, noticed that the street were full of cars. After a while, we heard police helicopters and ambulances arriving ....Neighboor next door told us there was a mass shooting in the Airbnb house few steps away.

The head of Airbnb trust and safety announced that  they will conduct serious investigation, according to the news.

My dear fellow host, I have been posting  many times regarding my concerns to Airbnb unsafe booking process.  My own house has been targeted several times for huge parties/criminal activities, but it couldn’t get enough attention from Airbnb trust and safety 

department.

 Please protect yourself and be safe!

周蘭
837 Replies 837

I think that Airbnb will have to carry out vetting of properties in a clear and transparent manner and they already have appointed senior professionals with a law enforcement background. The cost of these checks could run into millions, but nobody knows how many millions. Airbnb may find that investors will wait and see what the final hit will be to the profit margin for the coming year. I see a similar issue that Airbnb will have to face in improving the vetting of guests ID and reassuring hosts that repeat offenders are not being allowed to book into their homes with them unaware that other hosts had declared to Airbnb that they would not host that person again. I can also see going forward that investors will be wary of the function of editing reviews that Airbnb carries out. The laws on publishing are different all over the world so therefore an investor would want to know just how much exposure there is to the bottom line. The good news is that Airbnb is in profit and can easily ratchet up it's vigilance but the cost will not be one-off rather that cost will carry on as part of the ongoing business costs. What is clear that Airbnb is moving up as an operation valued at billions but as we saw with WeWork these valuations are fluid.  

Hi Suzanne,


How did you put in place a house waiver, and house rules which must be signed prior to checkin?  Were you able to do this with air Bnb?  I have just started hosting and will be looking at other sites to increase bookings for off season. I do have exterior security cameras. 

 

Terri

 

How do you vet people when you must first accept their booking BEFORE you can even contact them to try to find out who they really are and then if you feel uncomfortable with them and cancel you are punished by airbnb in search.  

 

You sound k=like you work for airbnb.

 

They are fully responsible for those dead people and for all the damage and bad things that have happen and continue to happen to hosts every day.  Their greed to make sure they collect every penny is what drives them to block direct communications with travelers, punish hosts if we cancel a bad booking, and in fact offer hosts no support after something goes wrong.  Blaming the hosts is just stupid.  I can tell more about a person by speaking with them on the phone BEFORE they book my property than any airbnb system can ever tell. Just the way they speak tells me most of what I need to know, but I can't do that because I don't get even an email to contact them before they book and then all identification they may have provided airbnb is hidden from me, and then if I feel uncomfortable an cancel I am penalized and since airbnb and homeaway are monopolies I am helpless.  But not anymore, it took people dying but now many of us will engage our government break up these monopolies and force them to change their dangerous and un-American policies.

 

Helen3
Level 10
Bristol, United Kingdom

Are you talking to me @Paul5861 ? - not clear as you haven't actually said who you are replying to 🙂

 

No-one who reads my post would ever think I work for Airbnb.

 

I vet guests by only taking those with a clear photo on their profile, with photo ID, by not accepting one night weekend bookings, by asking guests about why they chose my place and purpose for my stay. My house rules make it clear that guests not on the booking can't be on my premises without advance permission from me.

 

I can and have asked Airbnb to cancel bookings where the guest does not provide this information (that forms part of my IB rules) after it has been requested on a number of occasions.

 

If you want to speak to guests before they book, then why not market your place directly and use listing companies that enable you to do this.

 

Not sure what you feel is 'un-American' about Airbnb's policies -  but if you don't like how they work then use listing companies whose ethos you prefer.

 

Airbnb and Homeaway hold a monopoly.  That is what is UN-American

Yes there are a few other places but you will never get booked up.

I have one of my 3 personal homes in Naples Florida, I also belong to a group of home owners who rent there.  Between us we have almost 3,000 websites.  Still if you do a search for vacation home rentals in Naples Florida you can go and look at all 30 pages of so called relevant google results and find 0% of owners pages no matter how much money we have spent optimizing them/.  Why?  Airbnb and Homeaway pay Google millions after millions of dollars to purposely game their own search results and show only them.  Google calls it being relevant but what it means is being relevant to their pocket.  

 

These companies have to be broth to justice.  They need to be reported by as many owners as possible to congress, we must stop their stranglehold on the rental industry that worked just as well before they came along.  

 

This is not the only crime comited by people that airbnb facilitated, this just happens to be the one that made headlines.  Home destruction, abuses by both travelers and hosts go on all the time and will continue to go on as long as hosting companies try to appropriate the homes and get paid by the traveler.  

 

Profile pictures mean nothing, government ID given to airbnb means nothing, house rules mean nothing.  What good are house rules when someone who said 4 were renting  invites 30 for a party.... What is the host supposed to do? call the cops?  sure that will then bring the association in the community down on the owner and there goes the ability to rent so, basically the owner is screwed.  Just take the damage and hope they leave soon.  

 

I have been renting homes since 2007 by now I have seen a little bit of everything.  There are horrible hosts out there also.... Howe much vetting did airbnb do of you?> Me? NOTHING.  Absolutely nothing.

 

The way it used to be, a traveler got onto a rental site, they could see both the home and my phone number and my email and a link to my site.  The traveler contacted me directly and if he liked me, and I liked them we rented.  I can tell a lot about someone just be the way they speak.  

 

When someone says they are coming with 4 and they have family and friends that live in town that is an immediate reason for me to not to want to rent to them.  I have a fabulous home of course they are going to want to invite all those people to come over, use my pool, sit on my designer furnishings....  All liability for me, all reasons for my community association to get upset when 30 people all take over the sauna room or the community pool etc.  

 

Why do I think you work for airbnb?  Because it's either that or you are totally blind for the dangers involved.  

 

 

 

Helen3
Level 10
Bristol, United Kingdom

How rude of you @Paul5861 to speak like that to a fellow host. 

We can disagree here without being nasty. Perhaps you could try it?

People are dead.  Dead, never again to see another day.  Doesn't that bother you?  All that seems to bother you is that I am upset about it? 

 

Nobody ever wants to talk about the big elephant in the room.  These companies are evil.  They care only about money not community.  They hide behind words like community but in the end they cause anguish and now death.  

 

What if a child of yours had innocently attended that party?

What if you innocently happened to be the host?

 

There was no need for this.  Stop hiding traveler information from hosts, charge hosts charge a lot if you have to, but give us the power to protect our self's, our communities, our homes.

 

To sit here on this board and blame the hosts (as she did) for these unneeded deaths is as bad as what airbnb and homeaway do, except if you do it for nothing than that leaves questions in any sane persons mind.

 

If people dead is the host fault, then, any damage at all done to anybody's property is the hosts fault.

 

Somebody has to pay for this, and that somebody will not be airbnb or homeaway, it will be us as our communities forbid rentals.  

 

So in the end, we loose, the traveler looses because all that will be left are homes outside of communities/  Homes with less value, less caring hosts.

 

I rent 3 homes, all my own homes, I have a home in Europe, one in Naples Florida and a nice family estate in NY.  6,500 square feet of heaven on a private 9 acres just 45 minutes outside Central Park Manhattan.  This could have easily happened at my home, I am a prime target for this because my home is so private.  

 

So I call every traveler, but some of then don't call or text back.  So I cancel and then I get punished. 

 

Personally I enjoy renting the homes, I don't really need the money.  I think it;s great that while I am away in Naples Florida someone is paying me $3,000 for the weekend to watch my home.  I give every traveler a great experience because I am proud of my home and love to share it, so for me to be relegated to page 3 billion because I turn people down who I can not verify is no big deal.

 

But I am not everyone.  Most people get a vacation home and can only afford to keep it if they rent it to offset the costs. 

 

They worry about not getting enough bookings, and then there is the constant pressure from airbnb and homeaway to compete, to garb every single inquiry and make it a booking, they treat us like a sales force, a stock broker or insurance sales person with a quota to fill OR ELSE!!!!.

 

For most people that will eventually result in a slow lowering of standards, slowly they will take on renters they would have flat out refused just 3 or 4 years ago. 

 

Just a few years ago NOBODY would have rented their home without FIRST speaking with the traveler, doing deep due diligence using a photo ID, and finding out everything there is to find out about that group.  Now we are INSTANT booked.

 

As far as I am concerned airbnb and homeaway killed those people, because they failed to consider that this was possible, that they were creating a system where robbery is easy since they publish our homes location and a calendar telling the world when we are away, they have created an environment where you can buy a home in what you think is a safe community and have your child end up dead because your neighbor rented his/her house and did not do proper vetting because he did not have the information and was encouraged to take EVERY BOOKING no matter what OR ELSE you are punished.

 

Yes I am upset, if you think that's rude then so be it.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

@Helen3 I do all the above and it is exhausting. And a couple of times they have slipped through. Those were after parties and they did not start till 2 AM. So I didn’t know about one of them because I was simply asleep - something I should be able to do as host and the other one I watched closely because I had suspicions so at 3 AM I found myself kicking out large humans well police said they will wait for me outside. I should not be put in that position.  I have to agree with @Lan1  if I know that a local last-minute reservation means trouble, Airbnb should be able to flag it before it even gets to me. Someone listed as Tee Rex should not be able to book my house. Everyone on the reservation should be required to be added to the reservation with full IDs And Airbnb profile. I think that will prevent a great majority of trouble bookings.

Everyone on the reservation should be required to be added to the reservation with full IDs And Airbnb profile. I think that will prevent a great majority of trouble bookings.”


Im a new host. This is something I called AirBnB to change. They said to leave my request in the “Feedback section”

 

A guest lied about two service dogs (I don’t allow pets) who left unattended (against house rules)  did $2000 damage. AirBnB will not allow me to have guest information to pursue lawsuit. AirBnB compensation was less than 1/2 of two estimates to repair damages. 

Even though I left a bad review, the guest’s account is active. Also the guest was staying with her husband. Future bookings can be made through the husband’s account & the future host will not see my review. 

> D. hosts or their co-hosts don't go over to the listing at the first sign of trouble, rather than letting a party get into swing and neighbours be affected by noise/anti social behaviour.

 

There was a shooting at this party.   You think a host going over to break it up would have been helpful?  

 

> A. when hosts don't take the time to vet guests properly to minimise the risk of guests booking a listing just to host a party.

 

AirBnB is not helping hosts to do any vetting and their policies are actually hindering the hosts in doing so.

 

> B. hosts don't have systems in place to monitor remote listings to ensure only guests who have booked enter the property such as CCTV and local co-hosts

 

I think it should be a REQUIREMENT that all hosts (at least full home hosts) have external cameras but a camera will not PREVENT extra guests from entering.  It will only give evidence that it happened.  

 

> C. hosts don't have house rules and settings to minimise risks of a party for example a two night stay. having the names of all guests for listings that tend to attract party guests etc

 

A two night stay will not prevent a party.  Guests can just book for two nights and stay the one.   It only limits the risk as long as there are some around with one night stay but if ALL hosts have two night minimum, then it does nothing.    AirBnB does not assist hosts in ensuring that hosts have ACTUAL names of guests either, in fact AirBnB helps guests to be anonymous with their policy.  

 

> go over and ensure the booking is cancelled with Airbnb

 

This is part of the problem.  AirBnB does NOT assist in a timely manor hosts that have an ACtive issue and often backs the guest over the host in such situations.  

@Helen3 wrote: "Sadly these sort of situations occur when... when hosts don't take the time to vet guests properly to minimise the risk of guests booking a listing just to host a party."

 

How can hosts vet guests when they cannot see their profiles before booking?

And even once you have a confirmed reservation, and can see the full guest name, it is meaningless.

 

VERIFIED ID IS USELESS. The profile name has to match the ID when it's verified, but they can change it immediately after.

 

So Brock Turner, the convicted Stanford rapist, could verify his ID and then immediately change his name to John Smith before booking your home. You'll only ever see his name as John Smith.

 

Airbnb's TOS clearly state they can't (won't) guarantee the ID of a person or the quality of their background checks, yet they're entirely reluctant to empower Hosts to make those decisions themselves.

 

Airbnb should look to their own culpability rather than throwing hosts under the bus.

Branka-and-Silvia0
Level 10
Zagreb, Croatia

this is terrible @Lan1  and just yesterday you posted you quit hosting for the same reason. Obviously your location attracts the wrong people 😞

 

For this and many other reasons, I always suggest hosts take personal information from all their guests. The host should know who has access to their property and police should be able to get this info from the host. I am sure it would discourage such behavior and such guests to book or at least it would be fewer incidents like this.

 

@Helen3   I believe every host is doing the best he can to protect his valuable property but that's not an easy task. Things like GDPR, instant booking, Airbnb hiding guest's personal information and even profile pictures , no actual security deposits, a refund for guests evicted for breaking house rules or even criminal behavior, etc... are not helping to prevent such parties. You can't just cancel their stay or kick your guests out if you "smell" the trouble. The host is pretty helpless I am afraid and this is the result.

I expect more and more such headlines in the future.

@Branka-and-Silvia0 @Greg6 I always appreciate your comments! Guess what? Check my last listing, the party guest  just gave me ONE star in review, never got ONE star before in this listing. Called Airbnb again and again, they promised me supervisor would get me back again and again, few weeks now, still waiting.

周蘭

DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH WAITING TO HEAR FROM AIRBNB!!  

 

AND, even when/if  you do, they will no doubt tell you that it is their DUTY TO PROTECT THE GUEST'S FREEDOM OF SPEECH.  whether it is true or not is irrelevant.

 

My pedigree:

  hosting for 2 years

  attained Supherhost within 3 months

  All reviews since beginning are 5&4.

   Busy 12 months a year

THEN CAME THE SLANDEROUS/UNTRUTHFUL REVIEW. in August 19 2019!

   I contacted Airbnb immediately - NOTHING THEY CAN DO. 

      NO INVESTIGATION- NOTHING.  LEFT HORRIBLE REVIEW STAY ON MY ACCOUNT

**SINCE Aug 19 - I HAVE HAD ZERO REQUESTS TO BOOK!!!!!

I have called, written, called again - to no avail.

TO SUM UP-  BECAUSE OF THEIR NEGLIGENCE IN VERIFYING THE TRUTHFULLNESS OF A REVIEWS AIRBNB HAS DESTROYED MY BUSINESS!!!

 

i WILL NOt be continuing with Airbnb as they are NOT HONEST/FAIR PARTNERS FOR HOSTS!!!.

 

Beverly

seattle