My host guarantee experiment

[Inna22]

I guest stayed Saturday night and checked out New Year’s eve. The scene at checkout was scary. How does one break a bed in half?? At least I knew how the ripped the leather on the chairs- using a hook of a hanger. Everything combined, there was a few thousands worth of damage. Furthermore, I had only 5 hours to remedy most as another guest was moving in. Even though I have read enough about host guarantee to know not to waste my time, I thought I would try it for myself once. Just so I have a story to tell. As if I don't have enough host stories already. I do have a $600 security deposit but it was obviously not enough to cover the damage.

They split my case in two. One was for all fees- smoking remediation, moving the furniture, etc. That one got denied pretty quickly on the grounds that they "did not like the invoice". Just did not like it. End of story. My repeated requests to find out what would they like to see were just not answered. 

The second part was for the actual items, handled by a different person. The types of requests I got could be a chapter in a book. "An invoice from a licensed chair repair person for the cost of repair and explanation from the licensed individual as to how the guest is at fault". As you can imagine, there is no licensure in chair repairship (is that what it would have been called if existed?). And I actually double checked on that. Also, obviously this individual would not have had a clue as to how it was the guest's fault because he/she was not there. Clearly, these requests are designed for you to not be able to comply. But guess what? I got them every last ridiculous piece of paper! If you are wondering how I dealt with the chairs, I found a carpenter with a college degree in carpentry and current chair building experience to examine the chairs. I was very determined to see my experiment to the end.

Since they had no reason to deny the claim, they just denied it for no reason. Just like that. Case is closed. Experiment is over. Zero paid out.

[James682]

Sadly, I also joined the club of people who have had bad guest experiences (two out of 15).  Airbnb will want to see issues go away and quietly.  I do believe the name and shame route is our most powerful offense and defense.  I thought yesterday about setting up a website where unhappy hosts can post factual experiences they have had with guests.  As the list grows, an index can be added - search by name etc to find black reveiews. We will all benefit by identifying the problem people.  The problem guests will find their behaviour has made it much more difficult to get bookings.  The wise would-be guests will learn there is a forum which wil penalise them by naming and shaming them.  Thoughts?  Hotels may want to pay to access the list and/or contribute to it.

Airbnb's restriction on access to host ratings of guests is total BS.  Of course, we should have access to such important information.  

The practical approach to your dilemma is to do exactly as you are planning - externally insure or self insure (effectively allocating some premium pricing to a fund which effectively pays for the damage).

[Branka-and-Silvia0]

@James682 2 bad guests (who caused damage) out of 15 is very high percentage 😞  Is it just a bad luck or you should change something?

[Sarah977]

There is something fundamentally wrong with the lack of guest behavior parameters on airbnb. As hosts, we have to comply with all sorts of airbnb policies, quake in our boots lest someone give us a bad review or we loose Superhost status, but it seems that guests do not feel they have any repercussions to fear and many have a skewed idea of what an airbnb rental is.

I have a friend who owns a 2 unit home (a studio, and a small 2 bedroom) here in our Mexican beach town. She and her husband come down for a couple months a year and the rest of the time it is a vaction rental, listed on several platforms. She has consistently good guests, out of hundreds only one bad review and refund request from one of "those kind of guests" who lie and nitpick and want a free vacation that we are familiar with or have been lucky enough not to host.  However, the large house next door to her is also a vacation rental, sleeps about 10, and tends to have very noisy, inconsiderate guests who are screaming drunkenly in the pool and carrying on until 3 in the morning. She has had to contact the home owner several times over the past 2 years, who only seems concerned about making $.

One day when I was visiting her, she told me they were having a terrible time with the guests next door, who kept them up all night 2 nights before. She had talked to them the day after, and they did tone it down somewhat the next night. However, the following day (the day I was there), someone in the house had been blasting music all day. I had heard it going for 3 hours from a block away where I was working. She and I went out to my car to go into town, and just then 2 guys who were staying in the party house drove up. My friend is very soft-spoken and tactful and re-interated that someone in the house was still being very disrespectful of the neighbors, blasting music at full volume all day.

One of the guys instantly became belligerent and said "It's an airbnb rental!". How do guests get the idea that "airbnb" is synonymous with acting like animals and disrespecting all the neighbors? Airbnb really needs to address this perception on the part of guests. It's not just the hosts' responsibility- it's one thing to list our house rules and try to enforce them, but it seems a lot of hosts are having to also battle this misconception.

(BTW, the other guy looked embarrased about his buddy's response, apologized to my friend for the noise and said he'd talk to his friends and make sure no one did that again. Apparently the sound level was reasonable after that.)

[David126]

@Sarah977

You make a very good point, usually the big issue on a stand alone rental is that you have to put down a Security Deposit, I could be wrong but AirBnB is the only site I know of that does not allow this.

[Branka-and-Silvia0]

@Sarah977 @David126 many many problems would be avoided if hosts could actually collect security deposits. This is the biggest problem and downside of listing on Airbnb and the main reason why some hosts decided not to list here any more. We are all playing russian roulette by listing on Aibnb.

[Fred13]

  I been reading these 'Host Guarantee' cases on these forums for 3 years and I wonder if the day will ever come when this whole absurdity will finally stop. The Airbnb model is becoming, in many ways,  unsustainable because over time it has gotten too complicated, economically and even politically. It is full of conflicts of self interests.

   You have a company that gives the illusion (for marketing purposes, let's get real) of this $1,000,000 delusional 'guarantee' that when one reads the 2nd part of it (see Terms) then it is obvious they really do not have to guarantee anything if they choose.  The hosts have to learn new trickery to get around the stonewalling (see Twitter). The upshot is that when hosts send in claims, the battles begin, and it is usually as much fun as getting a root canal and Airbnb will make sure it be like pulling teeth for the host to get anywhere. On the other hand, how could Airbnb even remotely pay out some $5,000 claim when they have collected say a mere $500 in fees from the same host for the last year? As a consequence of this cat and mouse game, Its Customer Service is now an adventure to get a hold of in the first place, and when a host does suceeds then it is a wheel of fortune or misfortune which case managers they happen to get; it is like different referees following a different rule book officiating the same game.

  Now, there is a wide spectrum of hosts (4,000,000), throughout the world (this is no longer a U.S. reality), who are under different laws,  who range widely in personality (and ability), who range from on-site to absentee landlords, offering a single place to multiple places, simple dwellings to 'risky' homes resembling a museum filled with priceless delicate artifacts, who range widely in risk since some allow 1 guest and others a combustible 24, some rent a separate dwelling and some are truly sharing their actual private homes and finally some take full responsibility of guest actions while it is happening and others 'report' a fiasco after the fact and expect Airbnb to have their back and compensate them for what some 'stranger' did to their home while they watched or where not there (absentee landlords). Even insurance companies try to stay with some parameters of risk or charge differently for demographical differences.

   Sooner or later, Airbnb will have to be once again what it was originally somewhat - a booking agency that for a small 'fee' (3%) which sends guest 'leads' to people wanting to rent their private places. The responsibility of guest acceptance, screening, deposits, private insurance for possible damages, taxes, meeting local legal requirements and actual guest behavior, should be left up to the individual host. If this day ever arrives, Airbnb can stop hiding information about the guest (age, photos, etc) to achieve some social goal which supposedly either are dear dear to them or is being forced on them by some hyper-sensitive country like the one where it originated from (U.S).

   I think this is the only way that the host 'fees' that Airbnb is charging will remain low - which is really Airbnb's original claim to fame; list individual places spread throughout the world and advertise them through its system to absolute millions.

[Branka-and-Silvia0]

@Fred13

AMEN !

[Rene-and-Zac0]

@Fred13 I had the same conversation a few days ago with a friend.

It does seem unsustainable and it almost seems like a Ponzi scheme where you need ever increasing new participants to stay afloat. The true tell would be what is the ratio of repeat guest as opposed to first timers. 

‘You know it’s hard out here for a Host’

[Fred13]

   @Rene-and-Zac0 I think what is happening is that Airbnb has expanded horizontally and vertically at the same time, with the warp speed of a bursting star.   

    Horizontally expansion: They originated in the U.S. but are applying the same set of rules (and knee-jerk mentality) to the whole world as if they are applicable everywhere else. They currently offer ​4 million listings​ across ​191+ countries, but only roughly 700k are in the US ( -20%). ​I think their social crusades comes from the founders themselves or now probably from the also-young kids now running the place.

   Vertically expansion: They are a booking agency (100,000,000 a year), a collection agency, an 'insurance company' (not really but lets make believe for the sake of argument), an arbitrer, tax collectors (where they have to), and always play judge, jury and executioners in all conflicts, which probably run about 10% of the time with bookings (that is 10,000,000 probable cases). Talking about control freaks, and talking about a heart attack. 

   I always looked upon at their now-bloated model as really being a rabbitt in a 'race to an IPO', then it will change, then it will go a simpler model, once the blue sky is eradicated.

[Jen0]

Has anyone ever contacted their state's attorney's office regarding refusal of claims?  I've also recently had an issue regarding ruined and stolen items and they insist on using generic prices for high-end items I've had destroyed. They also insulted me in the email I received from their customer service person. "We regret that this decision has negatively affected you, but we believe this to be a fair resolution, all things considered."  This is the response I received after complaining that the items they chose to base their decision on was unfair, considering the discrepancy in quality. Polyester blend towels to replace linen/cotton blend towels? I'm also wondering if the Better Business Bureau is an avenue one can take.  It may not give any immediate change to policy, but if enough complaints roll in it may. 

[David126]

@Jen0

If anyone has ever contacted the State I have never seen any mention of it on here, not sure how they would have an involvement.

Ditto BBB, do you not have to be a member for them to be able to do anything?

[Jen0]

You can become accredited through BBB, but there is no need for filing a complaint or leaving a review.  It would defeat the purpose if so.  It's also a good place to validate a company for any reason, eg. jobseeking etc. I've used the website many times and filing a complaint about the refusal of ABB to honor it's host guarantee policy is definitely something one can do there.  The state's attorney is designed to protect consumers, so I would assume one could at least be advised by the office regarding policy issues. 

[Kevin-And-Pat0]

I have had a few mostly bad experiences with airbnb resolution center. True they come up with any excuse not to pay claims. I just had one and guests cancelled and claimed mold. I had 30 great reviews and i stayed in the home past 5 days. But we tired of ABB crap so we just accepted cancellation with full refund. Better to not even waste your good time and energy with Airbnb support. It is useless.So i use the time to stay at my home like my own vacation and go deep sea fishing and do some home improvements.  I use twitter messaging to get faster responses.ABB fast for booking problems that they fix if it money in their pocket. One time i had a cancellation accidently hold up my superhost for 1 year. So in this one case that went no where a new rep said he see it unfair for this cancellation to hurt me the whole year. So they did clear that up positively.So i started using that instant book feature and you can cancel requests if you "do not feel comfortable with a guest" with out penalty. So my place is really popular with repeat business. I not afraid to cancel questionable requests.My last complaining guest booked for the lowest price ever i must been desperate. He stayed the whole week and requested a refund and said my house costed too much. So i made videos and pics of all their mess and requested extra money from them.I had to wait until their request was denied. Then i put mine in.A smart lawyer who wants to make money will file a class action lawsuit for hosts for this fake guarantee ABB offers. ABB has all these records it be easy case. 

[Jilea0]

If you know what consumer laws cover Airbnb in your country, you'll find that Airbnb is just a paper tiger when it comes to the Host Guarantee. I had the same experience as hundreds of others. After 8 years of hosting, I'd never so much as claimed a dollar from any guests' security deposit. Then I had two charming individuals who dyed their hair red in my bathroom, staining tiles and woodwork, going through my drawers and leaving dye everywhere. The icing on the cake was stealing around $20 worth of tea. I did everything asked of me by Airbnb and my Host Guarantee application was refused on the grounds of an invoice for re-painting being too small to read. Instead of asking me to re-send it in a different format, they refused the claim, shut down the conversation and said their decision was final. Same old story. I went to the Department of Fair Trading. Within 24 hours, Airbnb asked me to send the invoice again, apologised for mis-handling the claim and paid up. In full. The experience has left me very disillusioned and unhappy with Airbnb. It's not an honest process, in fact Airbnb says it's purely to inspire confidence in their platform, not to actually pay anything to injured and abused hosts. "Airbnb provides Hosts with the Airbnb Host Guarantee benefits described herein free of charge solely for the purpose of promoting use of the Site, Application and Services by building customer loyalty and strengthening customer confidence as to use of the Site, Application and Services."

Just challenge them. They'll fold.

[Fred13]

"Airbnb provides Hosts with the Airbnb Host Guarantee benefits described herein free of charge solely for the purpose of promoting use of the Site, Application and Services by building customer loyalty and strengthening customer confidence as to use of the Site, Application and Services."

They would have saved a lot of words had they just said: 'It is simply an advertising gimmick, not to be taken too seriously'. 

The day they are forced to 'fold' too often, meaning the payouts exceed percieved advertising benefit, is the day they will drop it altogether, and probably follow VRBO's $1m liability protection.  And hosts will have to do their own thing as to insurance.