To clean or not to clean!

[Robin4]

While I do not justify exorbitant cleaning fees, I have come to the realisation through, not just being here on the Airbnb CC but, on other sites I am active with, many guests are unhappy with having to pay a 'cleaning fee' and don't realise why they have to!

I host through Airbnb and I have a $15 per guest stay cleaning fee. As you all know that is not a per night fee it is a once only fee for the duration of the stay. I would say to many guests 'Would you consider that ridiculously high?' But some guests consider that even that fee should not be charged!

The second thing is, there is a difference, hosts don’t expect guests to clean the property, they just don’t want the guest to walk out and leave it like a pig-sty! No host expects a guest to prepare for the next reservation to arrive.

We don’t expect you to wipe down the walls, the counter-tops, attend to those coffee cup rings on the bedside and occasional tables, checking for insects and spider webs.

We don’t expect you to strip the bed and remove those blood, alcohol or makeup stains from the linens, put them through the washing machine, dry them and iron ready for a future guest.

We don’t expect you to wash the towels and provide new face-washers to replace those that were destroyed by nail polish remover, acne treatment cream and fake tan lotion.

We don’t expect you to remake the bed with fresh linens and put out a new set of towels and face washers.

We don’t expect you to vacuum the carpets, rugs and steam mop the floors.

We don’t expect you to clean the toilet, shower alcove, sinks and taps.

We don’t expect that you will wash, dry and put away the dishes, cutlery, saucepans and glassware that you have used.

We don’t expect you to restock the fridge with a cheese plate, milk, eggs and bacon, fruit juice, a beer and a cider and water from the re-stock facilities.

We don’t expect you to test that the TV, the fridge, the hot water, the DVD player, the air conditioning filter, the washing machine, the smoke alarm, the microwave and hotplate, the electric blankets are all working!

This is what we charge a cleaning fee for! To return the property to the state which the guest enters it in.

We just expect you will put your rubbish in the bin, pick up those used nappies and condoms that were left under the bed and dispose of.

Put furniture back the way you found it.

Leave the property in a relatively tidy state.

That’s all we expect!

There are certain overheads that must be covered in order to provide a listing in the first place.

There is a property mortgage to be covered, insurances, council rates and permits, maintenance, breakages, gardening, electricity and gas, water the constant supply of condiments……..This is what you pay for in the listing amount.

It is most unfortunate that many guests do not seem to be able to differentiate between the two!!

The listing amount covers the cost of supplying the property. The cleaning fee covers the cost of continuing to offer it to guests!

Cheers…..Rob

[Robin4]

@Sarah977 

I am toying with the idea of putting my cleaning fee up to $20. That would enable me to have Fran more frequently. I would like to get to a situation where she does every second turn-around instead of every fourth. When you are only charging $90 a night you can't give away $30 in cleaning fees, but if I am getting $110 for that first night and I am averaging 3 overnighters per week all of a sudden it becomes a good deal for me.

Maybe I am just getting old and lazy Sarah, but I do appreciate the help, I have enough to do trying to run the main house, not to mention all the restoration work I am doing around here!

Cheers.......Rob

[Emilia42]

@Robin4, I have cleaning fees on two of my listings. $10 on one which takes me 2 hours to clean (so $5 per hour) and $30 on the other which takes me 3-3.5 hours to clean (so $8-$10 per hours.) These are by no means decent wages so I don't think of them a cost for cleaning but rather just some extra cash to offset the length of stay/forgive a broken glass. Because the cost is so low, guests never mention anything and are still almost always clean/respectful. My point is, I don't think raising the fee to $20 will make a difference to guests. That is only $10 a day for a 2 day stay and $5 a day for a 4 day stay. All still very reasonable and some extra money in your pocket.

[Ange2]

@Robin4     I do absorb the fee into my nightly rate to avoid the disconnect with guests who think they can be slobs if there is a cleaning fee. 

I take the previous year total cleaning costs and divide it by number of nights booked in that year and then if need be add in an amount to take into account increases in cost for the current year - it works out pretty well unless there is a complete cleaning disaster or booked nights increase dramatically.

(Prior yr cleaning cost / prior yr nights booked) = xx to add to night rate.

Then add a % to account for current year wage raises etc.

Of course this means people staying 3 nights will be absorbing less for cleaning costs  than people staying 14 nights, but the amount added to the nightly fee is so minuscule (unless the cleaning fee is enormous) it is unlikely to dissuade people from booking.  The upside is it gets rid of the contentious cleaning fee,  which if guests leave a mess (because they are charged a cleaning fee) often ends up being more costly and time consuming to clean than the cleaning fee charged per visit covers.

[Dimitar27]

Sad, but true-some guests will be more responsible and will keep clean, if they know, that you are cleaning the place on your own.

[Rowena29]

@Robin4 

Because of the very reasons you state - guests hate paying a cleaning fee  - I no longer "charge" one.  I have a 2 night minimum stay, so I halved my cleaning fee and added the half to the nightly rate.  To stay competitive and not rip my guests off,  I offer a discount for stays of 3 nights or more which more or less cancels out the cost of the  extra fee added on to the nightly rate.   ( if my rates go up or down dramatically this doesn't quite work, but usually by rates stay within a reasonably small price range).  I'ts completely psychological - I'm getting exactly the same amount of money,  perhaps a tiny bit more sometimes, but I have found guests to be SO much more receptive to keeping my home relatively neat and tidy,  because they perceive me to be so reasonable in not charging them a cleaning fee.

I hear what you're saying about very large cleaning fees,  and like you I can't imagine booking a place where the cleaning fee is $300.   BUT I can believe that these are reflective of actual costs for larger listings.  In fact I KNOW that in my area,  there are hosts   who are charging $180 - $250 cleaning fees, who are genuinely only passing on what they are actually being charged themselves by cleaners.   

Even though I am a remote host, I do all my own cleaning - for a variety of reasons. I've extensively checked up on cleaners in my area to have as a back up - absolutely no way I can get anyone for under $35 an hour, and they're not prepared to wash linens or make beds ( and they ones I've used were not very good) - I have up to 7 beds needing making.  2 lots of beds are zippered queens - which can split apart into 2 singles.   If I have to move both from one configuration to another, physically hauling them apart, changing the base packs over -  mattress pad, liner, protector - that alone can take over 1 hour.   Our home is 12 metres off the ground on the top floor.  We try to clean the glass panels on both decks (each 10 m in length) between every stay as they are the feature of our home and why most people choose it ( we believe) - they provide 160* views of the ocean and hinterland.  Cleaning them  on the outside - which is the part that gets dirtiest due to salt spray - requires setting up scaffolding - a 2 person job - as is moving the scaffolding  every couple of metres.  We can't always do this after every stay, but we definitely do it after every 2nd or 3rd.   I do a jig of joy if it rains on arrival day - it means I don't have to bother with cleaning the glass on the decks.   This kind of set up is not particularly unusual in the area where our listing is - there are a lot of treehouses, lots of glass, because of the views.  Even if guests have left things pretty neat and tidy and I"ve only had 4 people staying I  often can't get the house ready in much under 8 hours and that's going pretty flat out.  and NOT cleaning the glass on the decks or the  6 sliding double glass doors.  If I do that, add at least another 2  hours to the job with my husband assisting.   In touristy area where cleaners are in hot demand they will often just flat out decline tougher jobs and /or charge much higher rates.   (This is why we were so vigilant about sticking to our investment plan  - buying a low set,  low maintence,   brick home.   HAH)

.

[Robin4]

@Rowena29 

Rowena that is why I posted the screenshot of that listing!

We were not talking about a mansion that accommodated 20 people....that screen shot was for a listing that catered for 5 guests in 3 bedrooms.....in other words it was simply a domestic residence and the required cleaning (on any level) would not have taken  more than 2 hours.....and yet the cleaning fee was $323.00.

Rowena, I am not having a go at hosts who pass on legitimate cleaning fees, I am having a go at hosts who try to pocket another $150-$200 above the cost of legitimate cleaning fees to compensate for what they should have displayed in their initial listing description! 

Cheers......Rob

[Rowena29]

I completely get you're not having a go @Robin4  - I didnt' think you were ( Have to say though, if you can do a complete deep clean and change over for 5 guests in a 3 bedroom home, you're a better man than I am Gungadin. Would take me an hour just to get rid of the sand!)   I also agree with you about the cleaning fees being so much more than the stay - but the thing is, I don't actually think a significant proportion  of guests DO think that way - especially for longer stays.  I have a lot of places around my listing charge $280 plus for cleaning ( real costs), they charge a flat fee of some ridiculoulsy low amount of $150 a night whether for 1 or 10 guests. No extra guest fee.   By the time you get to 3 or 4 nights  with 5 or 6 guests their total fee gets cheaper and cheaper much more competitive than listing with a realistic nightly charge and no cleaning fee.  They are routinely at high occupancy and have great reviews  -  most of them.     Do you think it's a factor of how guests search?   I think if you are just looking at listings with no dates entered and no number of guests   - just looking around   - then the cleaning fee discrepancy really stands out - like your screenshot.   BUT if, when you're searching you enter the number of guests you'll have, and the dates you actually want, you just get shown the totals  - and if the total is cheaper even if the cleaning fee is really high, I don't think the guests really care HOW the total is broken down, they just go for the cheapest large family beach side holiday accom they can get.  That's how I think it is working in my area anyway.

[Emilia42]

I agree @Rowena29. When I am looking for a place with a group, I look at the per person cost. So if 5 friends can stay for three nights at $50 per person per night that's a deal ($750 total). I don't really care how the cleaning costs/fees/taxes work into it. These houses around you are obviously attracting groups, and like you said, the longer they stay, the 'cheaper' it is. But if I was looking for a smaller place for a quick stay with a significant other, I would be very aware of the cleaning fees, etc, because a high fee can add a lot to a one or two night stay for only two people. I definitely think it depends on the nature of your listings and the groups of people who are attracted to it.

[Sarah977]

@Robin4  Well, there is no way whatsoever that a 3 bedroom entire house listing would take me only 2 hours to clean. I spend almost that long on the one private bathroom/bedroom I list. A three bedroom house, , presumably with kitchen, living room and probably a couple of bathrooms would take me more like 6 hours. And I don't putz around. But even if it took 8 hours, and cleaners were getting paid $35/hour, it still amounts to $280, not that $323 that listing was charging. 

[Suzanne302]

@Sarah977  I think we've talked about this before, but yes, I spend a good 2 hours just turning over my single bedroom/bath in my home. In a pinch, I can rush it, but I get nervous if I can't give myself at least 2 hours. A 3-bedroom house? For a single cleaner I can't imagine turning that over in less than 4-5 hours!

[Mike-And-Helen0]

@Robin4 @Sarah977 guests don't always understand that most of us have waay higher standards for airbnb cleans than the average person has for their domestic clean.

I rarely clean my own place on hands and knees or lint roller it. I ALWAYS do for my listing.

Its the mismatch between standards that guests don't get.

(Sorry if anyone DOES clean the private home that way but with two full time jobs, three kids and four indoor pets, we don't!).

[Suzanne302]

@Mike-And-Helen0  Ha! Exactly. My guest bathroom is pristine. My own bathroom? I'm lucky if I have time to wipe down the counters once a week!

[Sarah977]

@Suzanne302  The way my house is constructed, the bedrooms, both mine and guests', are upstairs, accessed by an outdoor staircase. There is one bathroom upstairs, between the 2 bedrooms, which I lock off when I have a guest, so that becomes their private bathroom, and I use the downstairs bathroom. But guests also have kitchen use, and sit at the terrace table, right outside the kitchen, to eat, and often just like sitting there to read or do their online stuff, or we'll be chatting over coffee, or whatever. The guests who I really get along with and we both feel very comfortable with each other will sometimes say "Do you mind if I just go have a pee in the downstairs bathroom?"  I always cringe, because I know it's not at all pristine and sometimes can't recall if I remembered to flush the toilet after tossing some moldy leftovers found in the back of the fridge in there. So I always say sure, no problem, but enter at your own risk ;.)

[Paul154]

Everybody is way over-thinking cleaning fees.

Just do what the local competition does.  There is a reason your competitors do or don't charge a cleaning fee.  In my area, it's $15 for a room and $60-$80 for a studio.

One note: You must find your competitors "real" cleaning fee.  

If a host doesn't charge a cleaning fee, but has a minimun length stay, that truly is a hidden cleaning fee.

Cleaning fees allow for 1 night stays.

[Sean433]

I like to think of cleaning fee as "cleaning and replacement fee".

I always charge more than the cleaner actually charges because I take into account the cost of cleaning supplies which we supply (not the cleaner), cost of replacing towels and linens every so often, cost of replacing other amenities such as coffee & tea, broken dishes and mugs which happens pretty often etc.

I also like to allocate a portion of it to the cost of the wear and tear brought on by guests on an average basis and damages to the home. Since airbnb does not take a damage deposit from guests and I will not pursue guests who damage items worth less than $50, this fee helps to cover that.

So if the cleaner charges me $100 to clean a home, I will charge around $150 which will roughly cover the cost of the all of the above- "cleaning and replacement fee".