Protests Riots and Black Lives Matter

[Stan-and-Jan0]

I am quite beside myself with disgust and disappointment that Airbnb would enter the fray of political turmoil by supporting an organization who's stated mission is not only a lie but as they demonstrate daily, the protests and ensuing riots one has to know that it's not about racial equality. I will get into a long diatribe here but I'll just say that every time I see BLM box on the website with a donate button, I have to wonder if anyone at Airbnb actually knows what BLM stands for and what their true mission is. Look at what's happening in Seattle right now. It's really quite disheartening.

Very little respect left for this company.

[Patricia55]

I don't get why opinions are polarised around methods of dissent! Surely all forms of peaceful protest have the potential to bring about change? Believe me, I'm not exactly an activist (more of an armchair moaner) but even I have been motivated to get up off my fat a*se a few times to march against injustice. I've also written to my MP. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

By the way, @Helen350 , I've noticed that you've referred to Martin Luther King disparagingly a couple of times as a “serial adulterer” (whether he was or wasn't, I don't know, but I don't see the relevance to the topic under discussion) yet elsewhere you've claimed to be a fan of Boris who, let's be honest, has a reputation for “putting it about” and is less than forthcoming about how many children he has fathered https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/life/weekend/boris-johnsons-busy-love-life-how-his-messy-romances... This seems a like a double standard on your part – or have I got that wrong?

[Melodie-And-John0]

@Patricia55 ,  MLK was a great human but like other great ones in history, he had great notable flaws as well, Im sure Coretta was strapped with moral and ethical dilemmas over his less notable achievements as well.   We often must overlook a persons faults to recognize the noteworthy historical deeds they deserve to receive otherwise history will be erased.  That isnt always easy and sometimes impossible but sometimes causes larger than the sinner require imperfect vessels of change to make for better days ahead. 

Actually, I don't think peaceful protest and talking strongly to our elected representatives is a problem for many US Citizens, its a hallmark of a vibrant and relevant society.    I will add that I don't know a single person that believes the particular actions taken by those pi55 poor excuses for Police Officers that cost someone their life was warranted in any way or acceptable in our nation.  Furthermore, I'm sure most of us would be fine if they rot in prison for the rest of their lives and forfeit any retirement benefits they think they should have coming to them to the victims family.  The laws and acceptable practices of policing will receive a new scrutiny that has the ability to bring about meaningful change but compromising others rights to get there won't help to hasten the change, just increase the pain getting there.  I hope we can move forward with a sense of purpose quickly and not just sit in the pit of despair that helps nobody.  Stay well, JR

[Martina714]

@Stan-and-Jan0 airbnb is a company, point. airbnb is trying to raise again its and our incomes after this bloody torpedo straight in our ass, point. airbnb is always been not racist and now following the wave of BLM, point. What is wrong? If someone did not understand we live in a capitalist society... you better take a cold shower. point.

[Sally221]

I'd like to point out that anyone who thinks that while  there are a few bad apples in the criminal justice system it is basically just fine has forgotten  the second part of that folkism which is that those apples, left alone, will spoil the whole barrel. To fix the rot you have to empty the barrel, clean it up and start over. The police are not trained to work with students in schools, handle mental health & drug use emergencies or have resources for domestic violence.. The funds that currently are used for  police unions that shield the worst actors and cost cities $$$ in payouts after rogue cops are finally held accountable in civil courts could be better spent on  a better mental health system, school monitors who are trained in conflict de-escalation and social workers who don't have caseloads in the 100s.  Cops with guns didn't save anyone in Parkland.

[Sally221]

It is hard for people who have benefited from an unequal system to step back & see it for what it is. I am a beneficiary of being a child of a1st generation American whose parents emigrated to the U.S. as an alternative to working in a coal mine. My dad served in WW2 and then went to college on the GI bill and got a GI loan to buy a house. Yes, he served bravely & worked hard but being able to go to school & get a loan to buy that house had a huge impact on his fortunes, my fortunes & onto my kids.

   People of color didn't get those loans or get to go to college on the government's dime, even though they paid taxes & went to war. They were shut out of the economic boom of the post war.

I didn't set the system up but it certainly favored me because of how I look & I'm not going to pretend that I earned my place in our society solely by hard work, I was raised to tell the truth, my dad was a journalist.

Sure, we don't come into this world with the same gifts or temperament but we also don't get the same chances either. The invisible hand of privilege smooths the road for some of us, others have to endure the blight of racism & phobia that makes for a road treacherous with obstacles  and hidden pitfalls.

[Melodie-And-John0]

@Sally221 , Bless your dads service to our nation and other nations being overwhelmed by Evil tyrants, that was no small feat and there is no shame in a grateful nation rewarding its warriors, only in leaving some out of that as you mentioned.  That said, the sins of those that have been already returned to the earth 50 years ago wont be erased by anything we could do today no matter what.   

The great news is your comparison of 1945 with 2020 should also recognize that those particular injustices of that era were eliminated over 4 decades ago in the New GI Bill, the bad news is those benefits are not nearly as lucrative today for any service member as they were back then.  BTW, in my state of NY you can get many of those same benefits that were in the GI Bill without serving in the military.   What Im sure of is this isnt 1945 or 1960, the problems we are dealing with are all about the new millenniums challenges  not flower power protests and they will demand solutions made for 2020 not times long past,  Stay well, JR

[Ann72]

@Yadira22 @Sally221 @Anonymous @Suzanne302 Thank you for your cogent and well-reasoned arguments.  They all strike me as unassailable.  But arguments like those below are fallacious and shouldn't be swallowed whole:

argumentum non causa pro causa:  Protests lead to violent riots, violent riots are wrong or ineffective, therefore protests are wrong or ineffective

argumentum ad verecundiam:  I served in the military, therefore I know what's right for the country

argumentum secundum quid et simpliciter:  Success is available to everyone, therefore if someone isn't successful, he or she just didn't try hard enough

[Suzanne302]

@Ann72Bravo! Also tired of hearing the, "I married outside my race/My best friend is black/etc. so therefore I can't be racist" argument. I have a relative who has a black best friend. They are truly best friends and he does like this person, but......He's his best friend because, "He isn't like all the other blacks" and this relative consistently votes against anything that might benefit his black "best friend."

I find it ironic that @Melodie-And-John0 cites Star Trek in one of his posts. That show was ALL about social commentary on not only sexism and feminism but also about calling to light racism and improving race relations. The crew of the Enterprise would 100% support Black Lives Matter!

Funny too that the original concept of Airbnb of sharing a couch in your living room would never be embraced by the people upset at the BLM donation. They are the, "I'll share my couch only with those who look like me" types.

[Helen350]

You make sweeping generalizations & untrue statements @Suzanne302 .

Yes, I married outside my race. My hosting style is the epitome of the original Airbnb concept, except it's ME that sleeps in the living room, & guests get the 3 bedrooms upstairs!

- Last night I hosted (off platform - calendars blocked in UK) 2 separate Nigerian men; one of whom is a regular, & the other of whom had rung me that morning, saying "Hi, I'm a colleague of X, (black Tanzanian), whose stayed with you a few times, have you got a room for tonight?"

I don't agree with BLM, not because black lives don't matter; - they do, but because of their other philosophies which have nothing to do with race, & because of how they operate.

I find your statement "the original concept of Airbnb of sharing a couch in your living room would never be embraced by people upset at the BLM donation. They are the 'I'll share my couch only with people who look like me types" upsetting, offensive & defamatory.  - It's A LIE!,  & is an example of the "NO TRUE SCOTSMAN FALLACY"!

I home share, with people who don't look like me!

@Ann72 

[Ann72]

@Helen350  You're an intelligent and caring person.  That is clear in all your posts.  I just think that for Americans right now, it's not comfortable hearing broad criticisms of a movement that is doing some important work in raising consciousness in places where it didn't seem to exist.  I want to stay positive while understanding there is still a lot of work to be done.

[Juan63]

@Ann72 problem is many of us don't think #BLM is doing good work. Many of us also believe their premise is a lie, their methods are worse and their political aspirations are not about black lives.

[Yadira22]

@Helen350 

Notice how neither @Ann72 nor @Suzanne302  specifically mentioned you with regards to the comments above yet to felt compelled as to respond?! Furthermore, these cannot be technically considered defamation as it a generalised statement. 

Legally speaking:

Defamation is the publication to a third party of a statement about you which has caused or is likely to cause serious harm to your reputation.

Source:https://www.carter-ruck.com/media-law-defamation-libel-and-privacy-lawyers/libel-and-slander-faq

However, for the purpose of personal insight and awareness to yourself and others reading the whole " I am not a racist because I have a family member/friend belonging to another race" probably one of the most contradictory statements to make. 

1. Tokenism

The need to " create a symbolic effort as to be inclusive to members of minority groups" into your retort is in fact a very passive micro-aggressive behaviour to targeted minority group used. Many may even go to say that this behaviour could be categorised as "passive racism". 

2. Logical Reasoning

Under your logic, being friends with a person for "targeted race" liberates you from being one. In this case Hitler is not racist as he was friends with Rosa Bernile Nienau (of Jewish heritage, he knew this)  and yet he killed about 6 million Jewish souls among other members belonging to minority groups. I and many others would categorised his actions, philosophies etc as racist.

3. Individual vs collective representation 

Your family member, friend or whomever they may be represents an individual or select defined group of said racial community and not its entirety and as Suzanne above highlighted the accepting of the individual is different to the accepting of  the community as a whole. 

4. Centralised Racism 

Psychologically speaking it is the practice or believe as an individual you are inherently "less" because of your own racial identification, seeing another as being superior to yours.

Under no circumstance am I calling you racist or or any other derogatory term  (implicitly or explicitly) and I am most definitely not comparing you to Hitler!!!

I truly believe your heart is in the right place and will always choose to lift people up and not push them down. This post is created as to bring self awareness and beg anyone reading this to please stop using the excuse above, it's really disheartening on so many levels. 

Stay safe Helen and thank you for your time. 

[Ann72]

@Yadira22  This needed to be said.  #2 above, saying or implying, "If I have friends or acquaintances from another race, I can't be racist" (like @Suzanne302's friend), is also a form of moral equivalence, another logical fallacy.  The opposite is equally a fallacy:  "If you're a racist, you can't have friends from another race."

The importance here is that racism is so insidious, and sometimes so subtle, I believe each of us must look within ourselves frequently to tease out threads and assumptions that arise from our privilege and examine them for signs of racism.

@Helen350 is actually taking important steps to reduce societal racism by not discriminating at all.  Big social change is important, but so is regular individual action.

[Melodie-And-John0]

@Suzanne302 , Im not sure where the Irony lies in what your saying, I brought it up because it was relevant to the topic direction about those that arent the perfect physical specimen duplicate  of a Ken Dolls not being fully included in all of the choices of work that Ken and Barbie can and my point was technology was the great equalizer not law when it came to that.  You can't order an airline to hire a blind pilot yet but someday with the right technology, that wont be a no-go! 

And yes, I would say some of what your saying is true about that show being cutting edge on more than dilythium Chrystals, phasers and tricorders- on the other hand, many of the themes or costumes were not anything Feminists would have thought was flattering to their cause in many ways.  

I do take issue with your implication that not supporting BLM means someone must have racist tendencies and wouldn't share our couches with people who dont look like me.  I would dare say Ive had many more room and tent mates of color in my life that were much closer to me than renting a couch in my home, how about you?   Its been a few years since I shared a pup tent with a Dark Green Man but I cant say the same about Bearpath Lodging where we share our home and even our couch occasionally with folks we have never met from everywhere and every walk of life.

Many of us choose to hold the people we elected not disorganized protest groups responsible for both recognizing inappropriate force and changing the way LEO's respond to Unsubs.   The fact we may not choose to pay lip-service or the equivalent of the cost of 2 happy-meals and a Filet-o-fish sandwich to an organization you support as our means to act against injustice within our borders makes none of us racists.  Many of us just happen to feel our mayors, governors, legislators and judicial systems are in a much better place to address these things than  marchers that only get a single vote once every 2, 4 or 6 years to vote for change if they show up at all, stay well, JR

[Sarah977]

@Melodie-And-John0 Had it not been for the protests, the cop who murdered George Floyd and the 3 cops who allowed it to happen would still be walking around free.