Protests Riots and Black Lives Matter

[Stan-and-Jan0]

I am quite beside myself with disgust and disappointment that Airbnb would enter the fray of political turmoil by supporting an organization who's stated mission is not only a lie but as they demonstrate daily, the protests and ensuing riots one has to know that it's not about racial equality. I will get into a long diatribe here but I'll just say that every time I see BLM box on the website with a donate button, I have to wonder if anyone at Airbnb actually knows what BLM stands for and what their true mission is. Look at what's happening in Seattle right now. It's really quite disheartening.

Very little respect left for this company.

[Sally221]

Exactly, if education is tied to the current job market it is always going to be one step behind anyway. What if we thought of ongoing education as investment in the infrastructure of society ? I wish that we thought of health, education & a fair justice system as things that underpin a well functioning society and invested in them, that would be a tide that really did lift all boats. The wealthiest among us benefit from the  infrastructures already in place, Jeff Besos , for example, is reaping massive amounts of profit by using from our transportation system, why not have those in the 1% help pay for the things that make business possible in the first place?

[Fred13]

(Another post from your favorite Drive-By-Poster)

@Melodie-And-John0 You mentioned BOCES, a fabulous program indeed. I never bought the 'everyone has to get a diploma from college' bid, reminds me of 'everyone has to get a trophy' to feel good about themselves nonsense. My son was incredibly lousy in sports, our mantle is full of sports trophies, you kidding. The quality of that diploma will determine how one will be able to compete effectively in the real world, not the world those institutionalized ivory-tower professors think it will be. 

    I learned a few things in my 7-years in college (Cornell with professors like Carl Sagan, Rod Serling, etc.)

1. Distribution of subjects is the key -  expose kids to a broad range of subjects. The hell with getting 'good grades' in just a few subjects to impress some employer in the future; if  you have broad knowledge, you will be able to think conceptually, conversely so acutely you can't ever see the forest from the trees. Graduate school should be the place for specifics.

2. College will only  teach you how to learn (and hopefully the fun of it), but most importantly how much there is to learn. If a kid comes out of college and is leaning forward during a conversation when people speak, they will do well, its a mathematical certainty, and maybe by the time they are 40+, they will have a clue. Those coming out already convinced they are 'ready' and leaning back with their arms-crossed are screwed because they will be defending what little they already know the rest of their frustrating lives.

3. All students must spend one semester overseas, or summer, to expose them to other lands, culture and remind them about taking the believe in exceptionalism too far. 

@Sally221 Talking about the most fortunate being able to do the most good (concentrated private wealth can move mountains, vs. the incompetence of government), go no further than Andrew Carnegie (a library in every town) or Gates (computers in every school), imagine what Bezos can do with his fortune. Ok, so sometimes they step into areas that shows their ego, like Gates, though of course he means well, but without a sense of humor we die prematurely  >

/off to the island for another round of endless application of wild ideas.

[Sally221]

And there is the logical fallacy - Bill Gates doesn't need to become an immunologist or get a degree in any related field, he can reach out to those with decades of experience in in those disciplines and listen & learn about best practice.  I realize that science had become another arena for political divisiveness but  you can't fool the physical world any of the time, nature will always bat last.

Considering how much debt the United states has taken on by bailing out the banking, automotive & airline industries it's hard for me to see how big business is actually superior to government in executing much of anything (besides concentrating wealth)

. It's true Carnegie built libraries, local governments must keep them running & I for one would hate to see a society where the bulk of the population had to hope the 1% would build a bridge or highway or school or hospital instead of an island or sports franchise.

[Fred13]

/back from island

     You are correct that nature will bat last - specially human nature.

     'Big' business is really built by the combination of  'small' innovative businesses (employees less than 500) which big companies buys because that is where the most innovations and efficiency can be found. Sony is really comprised of 500 smaller companies, Microsoft constantly is buying small businesses. Big businesses are oftentimes not bailed just because they are 'big' and the best lobbyists, more because they employ a lot of people collectively, and those are then political self-interest moves. Their concentrated wealth is what makes it possible to buy those 'small businesses' in the first place. Of course, these types of conversations usually turn into the populist struggle of the 'evil' Goliath (big business) vs. the powerless individual, but leaves out the reality that the real majority (small businesses) is really the backbone of the most efficient  economies.

    Conversely, government-run programs or 'businesses' just about every time have usually proven to be incompetent, slow, wasteful, choked with regulation and ultimately extremely corrupt, because of human nature; once you protect a group of people from scrutiny, higher standards and/or accountability via politics, incompetence will rise. Every historical movement throughout history by the best economic thinkers has always come with the warning about being very afraid of creating or allowing 'big government' to rise. The sphere of government should be kept to only  public projects (highways, military, federal courts, etc), matters beyond the collective concern of individuals.

   There is a reason why the biggest 'socialist' states in the U.S. perpetually find themselves needing government bailouts though on the surface they look like economic 'marvels' in absolute terms, but at what cost? There is a reason why California is trying to keep its citizens from leaving (via taxation) to places that place more emphasis on the individual vs. government (i.e. Texas). 

   Good for you that you feel California is the way to be and is so imperative to the welfare of the nation, but the rest of the nation doesn't agree and that is why they do not live there, despite California's amazing natural geographical beauty. 

[Ann489]

@Fred13    " There is a reason why the biggest 'socialist' states in the U.S. perpetually find themselves needing government bailouts though on the surface they look like economic 'marvels' in absolute terms, but at what cost?"

I think you are confusing "blue states and red states".   The biggest "welfare queens" in this country are the red states, constantly last in everything from education to healthcare, to employment, constantly in need of bailouts--courtesy of the "blue" states.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaharziv/2020/05/12/blue-state-bailout-red-state-residents-received-la...

[Sally221]

Yowza Ann! See, this is what I love about this site, voices from other places who blow up my preconceptions about those other places. As a Californian who hasn't traveled much outside my state I want to find common ground with folk who are also searching for common ground but not at the expense of facts. When people call out my beloved home as a failed state (the most populous in the country mind you) it makes me clap back every time. I am so angry about the latest tax code which takes even more money out of my state, I am so angry about how little we count in our congress, now that the federal government has decided to ignore the House, the only democratically elected body in Washington.  Yeah, my state with its dumb stuff like health care for all is so terrible that housing is ridiculously expensive.  The big boys that got the bail outs & spent the boodle on stock buybacks are not the top employers in this country, more people are employed by small businesses, you know, the ones who were at the end of the line in the latest bail out. The current resident of the White house and his thug at the Dept of justice have no respect for the constitution whatsoever, except the 2nd amendment. Empires fall, if those traitors suborn the next election there will sound a crash heard around the world.

[Sarah977]

@Sally221   "...voices from other places who blow up my preconceptions about those other places. As a Californian who hasn't traveled much outside my state I want to find common ground with folk who are also searching for common ground but not at the expense of facts. 

On that note, have you ever watched the youtube videos of "Liberal Redneck" Trae Crowder? He's my favorite youtuber- whip-smart and fast, really funny (altho he's dealing with very serious subjects) he's giving a voice to liberal southerners and telling the rest of the country to pay attention to the fact that they are ignoring that not everyone in ole Dixie is some illiterate,  gun-totin' ignoramous.

[Sally221]

My big kid was talking about him, I get checked for snarling about red neck type people & he mentioned Trae. My kids are more woke than I am which is to the good.

Yah, mine is an incompetent state with the 5th biggest economy in the world and so abusive, why we tried to make auto makers hew to a higher admission standards, can you imagine? The shame! We are so darn abusive that we have the empty middle states, with a small fraction of our population, taking our $ & telling us what to do. If the economy in those states is going pear shaped it must be our fault because, well just because. It isn't as though we had a voice in the senate or anything wonky like that, ooh, it must be because we have Hollywood? Or legal pot? Though thug Barr is going after that industry, he doesn't like it & that's enough for the top cop, state's rights in our case are state's wrongs.

[Fred13]

The stimulus checks are not bailouts, they are a temporary help to people and really to spur the economy; what I was talking about is the bailouts to offset states running deficits well before Covid-19, which tend to be the most incompetent and abusive on the nation as a whole. 

[Ann489]

@Fred13   yes, Fred, as already established--with a few exceptions, those are predominantly the red states.

[Sally221]

@Fred13The bailouts  I referred to considerably  predate the era of Covid- Chrysler, the savings & loans, the wall street idiots, Enron, the sub prime mortgage meltdown and I'd argue that Boeing was bleeding from self inflicted wounds.

 I'm not sure how the party that self identifies as that of fiscal responsibility squares Mr. Mnuchin sitting on 500 million bucks without even the whisper of oversight. I'm also confused about the multinational  company Sony being used as an example of small businesses that employ the bulk of Americans. Or how Jefferson's ideal of a nation of gentlemen farmers is applicable in today's world. (without slaves doing the actual work) Locke's views on capitalism have been interpreted several ways, McPherson's reading of Two treatises is no more accurate than the king James version of the bible is for biblical scholars.   I'm not sure how Burke would view the idea that corporations are persons or  his thinking on global businesses.

[Yadira22]

@Fred13 

---

@Fred13 wrote:

The sphere of government should be kept to only  public projects (highways, military, federal courts, etc), matters beyond the collective concern of individuals.

---

Ok, great then please hand in your constitutional rights, lets begin with the first amendment- the right to free speech, and 6th (Protects the right to a speedy public trial by jury, to notification of criminal accusations, to confront the accuser, to obtain witnesses and to retain counsel) and 15th (Prohibits the denial to the right to vote). 

If you are going to be so bold as to make such statements please verify and/or specify more clearly the intents behind them, as seen here generalised statements can be quite damaging. 

Have a beautiful day 🙂

[Fred13]

Generalized statements (aka personal opinion) can be quite damaging to who exactly and how? I do not have explain anything, it is my personal conclusion after studying and observing the evolution of society over the last 50 years (adulthood). We do not have to agree since we are not really dependent on each other's thoughts, since we do not even live in the same national nor political entity..

Btw, I did include federal court system who apply constitutional rights to all states and all individuals. The point is the smaller and the leaner the government, the better, but do not take my word of it - look at the endless historical examples of the last 300 years. The tendency of all governments is to become bloated over time and then become a many-headed monster hard to control. It is a warning to all nations, made by endless excellent minds that have been proven to be very wise (Locke, Edmund Burke, Jefferson, etc).

I will have a great day once again, being freer than I ever been, since not having to live no longer under 'Big Government'  🙂

[Yadira22]

@Fred13 

You are right, you do not have to explain anything to me, nor am I asking you to or vice versa but I enjoy your retort to this, especially when you then go on to spell out the basis for your opinions and outlooks (i.e. Locke, Edmund Burke and Jefferson) and need to highlight your age and within the context of this discussion please be reminded that: 

“Age is of no importance unless you’re a cheese* ”
― Billie Burke

*or red wine/great scotch (insert any quality vintage alcohol)

Do also note that this is not the first time you have highlighted your age difference almost to indicate a superiority in experience and knowledge- I grant you have greater range in experience than I do currently simply for being older and have had more time to accumulate it but knowledge does not necessarily correlate with age, as its based on education (both conventional and otherwise) and defers vastly upon subject matter.

For everyone, please do remind me what does this has to do exactly with the validity of the Black Lives Matter movement? Because if honest, this discussion has moved onto a Democrat vs Republican debate. Plus the need to identify a stimulus check being or not an example of a bailout has more to do with being correct and feeding one's ego and very little with the discussion in question- should/do Black lives matter (YES for me, ALWAYS!!) and do government and other institutions recognise this ( for me, not necessarily)? Thanks. 

[Sally221]

I think, at this historic moment, everything in the U.S. comes down to party. It won't always be thus, one way or another things will change after the election. (I'm studying Canadian history being a pragmatic worrywart who thinks we are ending our great experiment, we had a republic but couldn't keep it)