Airbnb party shootings, here we go again!

[Robin4]

When is Airbnb going to stop supporting the guest?

April 9th 2022: ELK GROVE (CBS13) — A party at an Airbnb rental in Elk Grove turned into a nightmare when an 18-year-old was shot and killed, said the Elk Grove Police Department. The incident took place at a residence in the area of Bowmont Way and Brandamore Court around 2 a.m. Saturday morning.

April 13th 2022:  A 23-second running gun battle in which 30 to 50 shots were fired during a teen's birthday party at a rented Airbnb house in a suburb of Houston left one person wounded.

April 18th 2022: Two teenagers were killed and at least eight people were wounded when a barrage of 50 gunshots broke out early Sunday inside a Pittsburgh Airbnb rental house, where police said roughly 200 people were having a party. Some escaped the gunfire by jumping out of windows. One of the gunshot party-going victims was 14 years old!

The dust has only just settled on an Airbnb  Sunnyvale California shooting on the 9th August 2021 where one person died, The 150+ people at that Airbnb party were aged between 15 and 19!

Airbnb, you are killing our industry! Your emphasis on protecting your guests at all costs, limiting them to any liability and shielding them from host scrutiny is forcing experienced hosts to leave Airbnb in droves and it is killing the industry for those of us that remain. Airbnb is now a dirty word, can’t you see what is happening?

@Catherine-Powell  you were lured to Airbnb with an incentive package that none of us hosts would ever dream of receiving in a lifetime. Instead of issuing feel good statements that in reality don't seem to lead anywhere, please start earning something of that $15m package that attracted you to Airbnb as global head of hosting! You are a person of influence within the company, represent your hosts! Please give us hosts the tools we need to stop this sort of mindless behaviour from happening. Local parties don’t just crop up out of nowhere, organisers don’t travel 100s Kms to stage them…..they are invariably local bookings! Work with your hosts to prevent them from happening! Local government authorities around the world are just going to keep on putting the screws on short term rentals!

Give us hosts potential guests verified information prior to booking, not just a generic letter!

Liaise with police enforcement to give a rapid response to out of control situations. You are the ones that hold all the relevant information…..make it available in a timely manner, not expect the hapless host sort it out because nobody in support knows what to do!

We have heard plenty of the talk, now is the time for action while there is still something of respectability in the company left……

Please support your hosts!!!

The thing Airbnb have to realise, good guests don't mind scrutiny, in fact it's their badge of honour......poor guests resent it and abuse it!

Cheers.......Rob

[Kristen479]

I am very strict in my hosting policy because AirBnB is not, but I do understand that security is more important than money and so I request my Guests provide me with certain information that I can verify, and if they don’t, it raises a red flag in my mind and I do not host them.

It wasn’t the hosts fault About the awful party & the shooting, But it really was not all AirBnB’s fault neither, in my humble opinion because the hosts can double check with a guest, why they are staying, and firmly state that no other guests are allowed other than the stated guests. I require identification from everyone that will be staying in my home.

I avoid anyone that is from my local area, preferable to have someone From out of state, so I don’t have the risk of friends and family coming over to hang out or have a big party. But it could happen to anyone.

It was a horrible thing And I pray it never happens to me. I try real hard to weed out anyone suspicious, anyone that’s recently joined and has no reviews, that can’t provide a good reason why they want to stay. I hope AirBnB will reimburse the owner of that property. As for the people that were killed, you can’t blame anyone for that. It’s just the violence that goes on in this country.

It’s fueled by alcohol and young people that don’t have any control over their actions and don’t fear any reaction. The shooting could’ve taken place anywhere these people were together, they just happen to be at this particular AirBnB. You were coming down really hard on Airbnb, and they have provided me a platform that I never dreamed of & an income that is helping me get through my years.

I don’t think they’re perfect. I do believe they should at the very least get a guest & host  drivers license And for hosts, I think they should do a background check. To make sure there’s no criminal background. Also AirBnB could alert the host that it is the responsibility to check out the potential guest, unless they want the liability and fear of a giant party. In a hotel, they’re only renting a room.

But you’re renting an entire house that can be abused. You have the right and you should get more information about the person that’s going to be living in your home with all of your possessions. I do a complete background check of every guest before I accept or decline them. If they refused to give me the information, I decline them.

As for refunds for bad  guests, I am unaware of that policy, although I did have an incident with one guest who made up a story about mold, all it was was a little rotten wood outside in a corner of my house, but we were having other problems and he use that as an excuse to go to Airbnb and request a refund and then he wrote an extremely obnoxious review of me, my first and only. And AirBnB supported him. They didn’t even ask me to confirm or deny the existence of the mold before they made their decision.

So I think they need to get somebody that can fairly resolve host/guest issues But in other cases, AirBnB has assisted me so I don’t believe they’re all bad they just need to improve.

[Jenny]

Hi @Kristen479 

Welcome to the Community Center!

Thanks for your thoughtful and measured reply on what’s been a sensitive but important topic, though I am sorry to read about the issue you faced regarding the refund.

Your requirement of a background check is a sensible one. I know that other members in this thread have been concerned about safety because they’re a solo Host - out of curiosity, do you Host on your own also?

How could you see Airbnb implementing more stringent checks i.e. in an ideal world, what do you think could be implemented in order to provide more security in advance of the booking?

Thanks,

Jenny

[Kristen479]

Dear Jenny, hello!  I am a solo host, I have my mothers home and have lovingly fixed it up for a guest house.  I care deeply about my guest being happy, but I also am concerned about my neighbors, and how my home will be left when the guest departs.  As such, I believe in stringent checks.  AirBnB does not require a drivers license.  We should have the minimum information as a hotel will ask, a copy of the drivers license (on record with airbnb, not asking for them to release it to us, just knowing they have it in case of emergency is good), and the vehicle and registration that they will be parking on our property - this is the minimum.  Of course, I go way beyond because I have owned rental properties since 1981, and have had almost everything in the world happen to me, good, and bad, with tenants.  I even had a tenant move out and take my refrigerator.  I have learned to deal with it by being proactive, ensuring that the person has a good story, that it is verifiable, and always avoiding renting to local people - because why would someone local want to rent except to have the event somewhere else then their own home?   I believe that AirBnB should require a copy of the drivers license, and privately, provide the home address of the guest to us.  AFter all, after they confirm their reservation, they have our address, and our entry code, and we have nothing but what AirBnB gives us.  In my case, they do not get in unless I do a full background skip trace, criminal, civil and bankruptcy.  I would rather have a vacancy than a tragedy, any day!  Thank  you so much for your kind reply Jenny, I wish you the best in your business.  Air BnB can easily implement checks - it could be known as a secure venue, not the wild wild west like we saw on TV last week. 

[Helen3]

@Kristen479  the reality is we don't know whether at this stage there is any culpability on the host. For example how did they vet these guests? what security do they have in place to monitor their listing as a remote host. Why was it that neighbours rather than the host had to alert the policy to the party happening.

As business owners we need to take some responsibility if we don't put systems in place to minimise the risk of anti-social guests using our spaces. 

[Kristen479]

Robin, I totally agree!   Remote hosts have extra to worry about, they cannot get in their car and get over their quickly.  That is the risk they take.  They should spend the money to hire a local manager, or do an extreme vetting such as I do.  We do need to take responsibility and I do to the maximum.  I lose money, I leave my home vacant when I am offered a great rate for over 30 days - if I cannot vet the guest, if they will not provide the information that I need to check them out, then I do not accept their request.  It also helps that I am a P.I.  All they have to do is give me their name, even just the first name, and their home address, and I can run a full skip trace on them and check for civil, criminal and bankruptcy data.  

[Branka-and-Silvia0]

@Kristen479  good for you, but the rest of us are not PI and we don't have access to our international guest's backgrounds and criminal records (at least not here where I live) .

 I have to have instant booking enabled or my listings would be buried where nobody would find them

The only verification I can do is to meet my guests personally on check-in and take a photo of their IDs  and then hope my neighbors will call me in case a party starts at my place

 Our insurance companies don't want to insure Airbnbs for damages or theft done by guests.

We are playing Russian roulette with our properties on a daily basis

[Robin4]

@Kristen479 

Kristen, on reading that and relating it to my personal experience here and now I feel that is a bit over the top.....but I am not in your position, I am not a remote host and my listing would not appeal to a partying guest.......but I have been just that in the past!

I did for a while rent out a 10 person river houseboat on our local River Murray but I did it through a company who specialises in just that....renting houseboats. Their requirements for a rental agreement were literally dozens of times stricter than Airbnb's. But there were no issues with any of those rentals, even though a group of 10 people plus kids is obviously going to be a party/celebration get together.

But as I have said elsewhere on this thread, good guests don't mind providing whatever verification is required no matter what hoops they have to jump through.....Security bond of $2,000 paid by funds transfer 7 days prior to boarding....no problem! None of this hold on the guests payment card stuff. Airline loyalty card number, or similar.  Regular boat to shore communication......absolutely!

The company who handled the rentals knew exactly what the risks were, and they covered them. 

Mind you they made more out of each rental than we did.....but we didn't mind because they did what they said they would do and looked after our investment! 

Now the rental for that boat was......

7 night, High season..........$6,290    Mid season........$4,350      Low season.......$3,600

Long Weekend   "  .............$4,200    Mid season........$3,550      Low season.......$3,150

Now when you look at these rates they are not a lot different to what a similarly spec Airbnb beachfront villa will charge....typical mid season 7 night for 10 guests = $62 pr person pr night!

So the risk that we and the rental company were taking was for a similar return to a regular Airbnb rental.

The difference was, there is no way on God's earth that boat would ever leave the river bank on the provision of a phone number, an email address and a copy of a drivers license.

We never got bad guests!

Cheers.........Rob.

@Anonymous  @Branka-and-Silvia0  @Mark116  @Pat271  @Paul1255  @Ann72 

[Mark116]

Airbnb's party ban is only slightly more effective than their no third party booking policy.  They don't care if the host doesn't care, outside of I think very, very specific parameters of someone who is under 21, a local and wants to book for only 1 or 2 nights,  and they don't care unless something goes wrong.

As far as any 'investigation' coming from a company that often days days or weeks to 'investigate' that cameras were diclosed in a listing and guest complaint was retaliatory, I have to confess, I don't have much faith in CS investigative capability.

And as others have said, pronouncing guests to be innocent unless there is uncontrovertible evidence and treating hosts as guilty, even punished before they even know what the issues is...that is simply unethical.

[Branka-and-Silvia0]

@Sybe @Stephanie @Mark116 @Paul1255 @Robin4

This is how Airbnb "protects" its hosts and fights against parties - hosts are guilty and punished until proven otherwise

Within the last 8 hours, 2 more hosts wrote a post about their listings being suspended. Their only "fault" was reporting an unauthorized party and terrible guests to Airbnb

listing suspended after the host reported a party
https://community.withairbnb.com/t5/Help/My-listing-was-suspended-after-reporting-party-to-Airbnb/td...

The superhost was suspended after he reported a horrible guest

https://community.withairbnb.com/t5/Host-Circle/Rental-suspension-and-horrible-guest/m-p/1611184#M26...