Are AirBnb host allowed to put a camera INSIDE a private guest house(No common/shared space)?

[Jacob629]

Here is the situation - Whenever I book airbnb, If I am staying more than a night, I like to get a place where I have the entire house to myself. In this case, its small guest house on the hosts property. I booked this guest house for two nights for my girlfriend and I. When we came to check-in, our host greeted us and gave a run down of the house rules. He then stated that there was a camera in the corner of the house overlooking the kitchen and living room area. He said he had it here because guests where not taking their shoes off when they were supposed to. That caused me to pause for a second... Wasn't really sure how I felt about that. 

Now mind you, the house is very small. Not sure on square footage. The kitchen + living room takes up 50% the square footage of the guest house. The other 50% is the bedroom/bathroom/shower. 

So my question is... Is this allowed? It's not a shared space, so there are no "common" areas in the guest house. We booked the full guest house. I went to go and cover the camera, but he left a bunch of notes on it saying "Don't cover it" & "You agreed to this in the listing." So I thought maybe I'd missed it in the listing. I went back and the description and there was nothing about an indoor camera in the listing. I checked the house rules. Only rule was "No obscuring video devices". But nothing about the placement of the camera INSIDE the guest house. I then checked the Health & Safety in the listing, and looks like he has several cameras on the property. But in the health and saftey section, he lists them as things like "walkway-front-E" and "Driveway-On-W&E" and then there was "Kitchen-On-S". 

So while it appears that it did mention a camera in a kitchen, how was I supposed to know that it was INSIDE the kitchen of the guest house I was booking? The host has several guest houses on the property, so that placements could literally mean anything. 

I feel like the host has violated AirBnbs rules on cameras, but I am not sure. He made it sound like AirBnb was ok with him placing the camera there to make sure guests took their shoes off... 

I have no problem with Cameras on premise. Like the cameras on the walkway, sure. The street, sure. I understand that and can't fault them for it. But Cameras INSIDE the guest house? Oh, and one other thing. This guest house has 8 large windows and the blinds that come down are basically see through. This place feels like it has zero privacy. That was just the icing on the cake of what felt like many potential privacy violations. 

[Sarah977]

@Jacob629  It's a bad look for a host to shill for a 5 star review, basically telling guests to leave one. Definitely pushy and I would imagine a turn-off for most guests.

Many hosts try to educate guests on how star ratings work on Airbnb, but educating is different from trying to strong-arm guests. 

Personally,as I am a home-share host, I have have had convos with guests during the course of their stay on Airbnb's rating system. But it's not a  pointed conversation, it's casual and happens in the course of normal conversation- they might be telling me about other stays they have had, or ask me about hosting, etc.

The reason I do this is because Airbnb tells guests that 4*s is "Good", yet turns around and strips Superhost status for less than a 4.8 average and threatens hosts with delisting if it falls below 4.7.

It's the hypocrisy of what Airbnb tells guests, and how they apply the ratings to hosts that upsets me, and that is why I let guests know this and that is exactly what I say. I never ask for a 5* review, in fact I tell guests that of course they should feel free to leave whatever ratings they feel the stay deserved. 

Guests have thanked me for the information. To quote one guest, "Wow, thank you so much for telling me. I've had two previous Airbnb stays that were just fine- the host was lovely, I had no complaints about the place, and I would happily book there again. I rated 4*s, and thought the host would be pleased, as the review form indicates that 4*s means Good. If my 4* rating caused those hosts to lose their Superhost status, I'd feel awful about that. I won't make that mistake again. Why does Airbnb mislead guests like that? " 

To which I said, "That's something you'd have to talk to Airbnb about."

When hosts want 5* reviews, it isn't because they consider themselves or their listings to be perfect, but because of how harshly Airbnb deals with star ratings for hosts. 

I actually wish they would do away with star ratings entirely, for both hosts and guests. They are totally subjective and there is no explanation for why that rating was given. I have no idea if I see that a guest has a 4* cleanliness rating whether it's because the guest left a pile of dirty dishes, or because it's a fusspot host who expects guests to leave the floor clean enough to eat off of.

Written reviews give actual information, and are really all that is needed.

It is polite to offer suggestions for what a host might add or change in private feedback rather than downgrade the overall rating. For instance, a guest might suggest that there be better lighting or that more cooking utensils be provided. Those things are not a reason to downgrade star ratings, but something a host might want to take on board.

But this host you had seems overbearing and controlling and his approach and attitude to any criticism is a poor one. 

[Kate867]

@Jacob629   I agree completely with @Sarah977 .   I think those hosts are pushy, controlling and are extremely rude in the way they ‘tell’ you to give five stars, and address your complaints in private feedback.  I have attached some photo’s of something I saw on a Hosts Facebook post yesterday that I think you may find interesting.

[Jacob629]

Ok, for those who are interested, here are the reviews I gave them, both private and public. Side note, my girlfriend had actually reviewed this place before she sent it to me for opinion and to book. We had looked at a few reviews before we booked, but we apparently hadn't scrolled down far enough to see the ones that were bad or mentioned the camera. To be fair, as @John5097 mentioned, you do have to scroll a bit farther down to see it those reviews. I guess not everyone values privacy. Oh, and she also saw the camera placements, which I talked to in the public review. 

I gave 5 stars on everything but accuracy and experience. I gave 3 stars on those. I was a bit torn, the hosts were very nice people, but I did feel duped and it affected our experience. I'd hate for other guests to have to experience that. I debated on putting my comment about the blinds in the private message, but i see that they are the same blinds in the original photos, so guests should know about that imo. Just incase someone values having privacy as much as I do. The blinds by themselves wouldn't have caused me to give them a negative review, but combined with everything else, it was really just the icing on the cake. 

PRIVATE:
Thank you Keven & Doug for hosting us in your guest house, we enjoyed staying in New Mexico. Allie enjoyed getting to hold Bunn, James Bunn and petting Nama & the kitties. It was a delight, she thanks you for the hospitality and inviting her into your home to wash our clothes. We wanted to mention some things about the cleanliness of the place only because in the title it says “EXTRA CLEANING CARE”. There was dust (bookshelves, acorn bowl, ect.), cobwebs & dead bug on the bathroom window, & the microwave had some reddish mess inside of it. This did not bother us but we wanted to mention it because more particular guests could be bothered. We very much enjoyed the decor and the nature around the house, the chickens and ducks were a nice touch. Interacting with you guys was a delight & it was nice meeting you guys!

PUBLIC:

This was a very conflicting review to write because there were good and not so good (for us) aspects of this airbnb.

THE POSITIVE:
Keven and Doug were very accommodating and responsive during our stay. My girlfriend & I particularly enjoyed Keven’s lightheartedness and humor! We had to arrive earlier than mentioned in the initial messages due to snow and we were very thankful they welcomed us hours early with no hesitation. During our stay there was an issue with the washer and it was quickly dealt with in a friendly manner and we were very happy to be welcomed into their home to have our clothes washed. The guest house is lovely and the decor is personalized to New Mexico which really added to our stay. Keven & Doug have many animals & it was a delight to be able to meet them and see them on their beautiful property.

THE NEGATIVE:
Sadly a glaring discomfort with this stay was a lack of privacy. There is a camera INSIDE of the guest house pointing towards the kitchen & living area. We did our due diligence before booking & read every section of the listing. There were cameras mentioned on the property which we had no problem with. Under “health & safety” cameras are mentioned saying “none in private areas”. We did not know what “Kitchen-On-N” meant and we have stayed in other airbnb’s that offer their private/host kitchens to guests so we assumed it was something like that for that camera. We were shocked to find out that there was a camera INSIDE of the guest house we were staying in as it wasn’t directly listed in the main description. Doug said it was for monitoring if people were taking off their shoes in the house & only recording for a minute when the door was unlocked. After reviewing ALL of the reviews there was a comment made by Doug/Keven which stated the cameras were there for “proof” if/when house rules (cooking, smoking, ect.) were broken. All of these things could not have possibly been recorded in just those one minute increments which made us feel like the camera was always recording or could be viewed at any moment of the day. While I know that our hosts have better things to do, it still caused us to feel very uncomfortable. With all the reviews that had complained about this camera, why is it not mentioned in the listing description to avoid situations like this? I would not have booked this place if the camera location had been listed clearly (like in the description). The blinds provided gave the illusion of privacy. I stepped outside during the night, and could see almost clearly into the guest house (with the blinds down). This was also very unsettling with there being other guests on premise, even more so when I realized there were cameras on the corner of the main/host house, one of which was pointed straight at the guest house. Additionally, in the bathroom, there was a large window right above the toilet (you can see in the photos) that had no curtains or blinds. Although it faced the fenced back yard, it just furthered those feelings of no privacy. All of these privacy oversights made it feel very hard to relax. When you combine that with all the “Do’s” and “Don’t’s” plastered along the many walls, I felt like I was not trusted or welcomed despite Keven & Doug’s warmth. We really wanted to feel comfortable and relax in this airbnb but simply couldn’t because of these things. If the feeling of privacy is not important to you, I could recommend staying here. Also the bed is an older one so it is not the most comfortable, if that’s important to you.

----------------
Their review of us:

Jacob and Allie were the best of guests. They were quiet, social, followed all the rules and you could hardly even tell that they had been in the guest house. Would not hesitate to host them again and can highly recommend them to any future host.
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FYI, even though it wasn't EXTREMELY clean, we still gave them a 5 on that as those things we mentioned in the private review are easy to miss. 

@Kate867 , @Sarah977 , @John5097 , and other hosts out there that read this, do you feel like I gave a fair review? I have no desire to go after these hosts, or hurt what they have going on, but I do feel like other guests should know what they are walking into. The near zero privacy really got to me while I staying there for the two nights. I do feel a little bad given their review of us. But it is what it is I guess. 

Although, if they comes after me with a nasty response like they has others, I have no problem reporting them or possibly getting a refund. I would have mentioned my complaints to them about the camera and the blinds in private or in person, but seeing how they responds to criticism, I don't think they would take it well or act on it even. So in the end, I wanted to help out potential future guests more than the hosts feeling or their AirBnb reputation. 

Thank you @Kate867 , @Sarah977 , @John5097 , and @Mark116 for weighing in with your perspectives, opinions, and for providing information. It is very appreciated. I wanted to know if this was fully my fault due to negligence. I'd have done right by them if so. And thank you also for educating me on a hosts experience of Airbnb. I now know to give 5 by default unless there is something significant that happened during my stay, and will do my part to educate other Airbnb'ers as well going forward. 

[Kate867]

@Jacob629   I think your review of them is written in a very clear and professional manner and is also very fair and balanced.  It is supposed to let future guests know about your experience, contain all the facts etc. and you have managed to get this across very well.  Incidentally, I was not aware that other cameras pointed towards your cabin.. it must have felt as though you were living in a ‘goldfish bowl’ given the issues with the blinds.  As expected, I see that your Hosts have responded and clearly learnt nothing from your review.  I suspect, as I previously mentioned, they deal with camera complaints on site and should imagine many guests have mentioned the feeling of intrusion in their private feedback as clearly instructed to in the Hosts check out message.  Until a Guest actually complains to Airbnb this will ‘enable’ them to continue with this lack of privacy for guests.  Don’t fret about them leaving you a good review.  You deserved it, as clearly demonstrated by your previous reviews from Hosts.  You would be more than welcome to stay at our place in the U.K.,   .. we have NO cameras and have curtains or black out blinds on all windows!  I would also like to thank you for your input here, because as Hosts we are all also learning and your experience will help guide others in their decisions with regards to their properties.

[John5097]

@Jacob629  I was also impressed with your review of them. It was balanced and accurate. I'd also like to thank you for your comments. I've also learned something and think you handled that very well, as in life its often the case you need to address an issue.

At this point I don't believe you would be entitled to a refund. You would have had the option to contact Airbnb and have the reservation canceled on the first day, but that can be challenging if guest are already tired and simply can't get back on the road and start from scratch to find another place.

I also noticed in the response the host missoncruded your comment about the host having so many signs and rules posted, yet he can't be bothered to mention in the listing description that there are cameras inside. He even asked, "What kitchen did you think they were in?" Thats the entire point, he never used the word "in" or "inside" even in the hidden little security section. 

I also thought the rule for making it clear "in the listing description" meant just that, and as @Kate867 pointed out that is indeed the policy. 

I think I'm going to need to take a break just reading this situation! 

All of it could have taken much less time and effort to resolve. Airbnb requires cameras inside to be clearly states in the listing description. Its not very hard. They don't want to do this because they know no one would stay there and be treated like high risk prison inmate and just so strange having someone watching you in a living room. 

I liked reading the review but as these host clearly can't be trusted, I would have limited my exposure and sorted this out with customer service. 

[Kate867]

@John5097  @Jacob629  Actually, even though the stay is now over, guests do often try, and also obtain a refund days after they have left depending upon the circumstances.  On this occasion I don’t think @Jacob629  will because he did not actually raise his concerns (in Airbnb messages) during his stay so would therefore be difficult to prove.  I also did take another quick peek at the listing as the Host in his predictably scathing reply, mentions blackout blinds behind the existing ones.. and there is no way those exist in the living room / kitchen area.  Either way, the Hosts response will not hurt @Jacob629 in any way at all as the only people likely to see this are potentially future guests and this in conjunction with his review is therefore more damaging to the Hosts in my opinion.  Should @Jacob629 decide to complain to Airbnb then this listing will at the least be suspended for a period of time whilst Airbnb conduct an investigation regarding ‘safety issues’ regarding the cameras in conjunction with the blinds.  I still think the Hosts are really being somewhat ‘sneaky’ with their clever wording in both their listing and their check out message.

[John5097]

@Kate867 Yes that goes without saying. He could still report this issue which he said he would do. I think it would have simply been better to contact ABB customer service when arriving and first noticing the cameras that were not properly disclosed in the listing description. Customer service could have allowed the camera to have been covered and moving forward instructed the host to follow the Airbnb policy. 

If nothing changes at some point a guest will contact customer service and the listing could be delisted if they are unwilling to comply with the policy. 

[Mike-And-Jane0]

@Jacob629 I think your review was very fair. I think the host's response was somewhat pathetic and very damaging to them.

I have learnt to skim reviews and only read those that a host has answered. Typically hosts often only answer critical reviews. I feel you learn an awful lot about a host from how they answer reviews. I would certainly never book with these hosts.

[Marissa156]

I wonder why the security camera—especially since they have so many—doesn’t appear front and center in the “what this place offers” section. We have an outdoor cam and smart doorbell at the entrance of our home only and in the “what our place offers” section security cameras are mentioned. I also add it to our welcome message as reminder. This is a screenshot from my listing:

[Biker1]

This must be an American thing, but I don't know why know one has stated the obvious.  I imagine it has to be the same over there, but here in the UK having camera/s inside the private area is extremely illegal and you can face fines and jail time.

And has been mentioned a few times in this thread - it massively breaches AirBnB policy. Why wasn't the host reported to ABB support and the police..?

[Mark116]

@Biker1  The cameras were all disclosed in the listing and the only one inside was in the kitchen, so while it would have been better to have the cameras more prominently discussed, I don't think the host breached Airbnb policy or any laws either.