BREAKING POINT: when you decide that guests just need to LEAVE?

[Huma0]

I know that's a pretty vague question, but I was just wondering...

I mostly host long term stays (28 days or more) but also occasionally fill gaps in between with stays between 10 and 27 days. I have found it more common to resort to the latter recently due to all the last minute COVID (or non COVID) related cancellation and date changes I have been experiencing in the past couple of months.

With short term stays, if a guest is a bit of a nightmare, it might seem wiser to just sit it out and count down the days until they leave. But, even then, I feel some guests are just not worth the hassle. There are certain circumstances where I feel I would rather face the confrontation, awkwardness and retaliatory review than continue to host that person/s.

I'd love to know from other hosts who have faced a 'breaking point'. What was it and how did you handle it? How did it turn out?

[Christina768]

Hi can I ask did you ask the Airbnb customer advisor to remove the incorrect bad review? If so what was their response? The reason I ask is because I recently had a guest stay they checked out very late (on a busy weekend change over day) and left the room in a complete mess that required extra cleaning. They left an immediate review (no doubt negative as I made it clear that were checking very late and the space had to be prepared for the next guest) We always allow a little leeway but not hours (technically trespass) they were not happy. I have until tomorrow to leave mine. 

I have found customer service to be very Guest biassed even when House Rules or Community Guidelines are violated. Superhost status counts for zero. 

[Richard531]

How open/ongoing is your communication with these would-be evictees (is that a word?).

That is, if they are so unhappy (and being such a nightmare), do you think you could interact with them back and forth and ultimately get them to more-or-less evict themselves?  

Try this: 

"I feel like me and my listing have managed to miss the mark in so many areas.  I'm so sorry about this.  How about if we find you a place that better suits your needs as soon as possible?  I'm happy to refund you the rest of your unused days once we cancel the reservation and you're onto bigger and better things.  Is there anything I can do to help make this happen?  I just want you to be happy."  

In a best case, they shape up IMMEDIATELY and then they stay out the rest of the booking silently as they should.  More than likely, they'll take you up on your offer/idea and scram within 48 hours. 

Could that work?

[Huma0]

@Richard531 

I've only once evicted a guest and there was a lot of back and forth with her about various issues. However, she was not a reasonable person (actually quite unhinged). It had gotten to the point where she was hiding in order to avoid me. I called Airbnb and asked them to tell her to leave, which they did. I'm glad I did because it turns out she had already called Airbnb to complain about me, but they had decided not to take the complaint any further.

Another time, early on in my hosting experience, I had a couple staying who repeatedly ignored certain house rules, including making a lot of noise at 3 or 4am. I had tried speaking to them about it but, every time, they apologised profusely and then just continued with the same behaviour. I didn't have much experience under my belt and so I called Airbnb who told the guests to follow my rules or leave without a refund. Their behaviour improved after that! It was slightly awkward, but not as much as I had feared.

I think that if there is any way to convince the guests to leave of their own volition, ideally with them thinking it was their idea, that's the best outcome. I have had a couple of guests who ended their stays early and I was more than happy to see them go and refund them! 

However, sometimes guests are just impossible and the two examples I gave above were situations where the guest seemed to think that the host had no 'power', i.e. no right to enforce any house rules. When they hear from Airbnb, that's another matter. Suddenly they take it seriously, especially as Airbnb came down firmly on by side on both occasions.

[Elaine701]

when you decide that guests just need to LEAVE?

Preferably, before they book 🙂

[Huma0]

@Elaine701 

Ideally! 

Lately, I am turning away more guests than ever before and I've also cancelled/got the guest to cancel IBs numerous times in the past few weeks. There have been so many red flags.

Unfortunately, every now and then a less than ideal guest slips through the net because there are no red flags prior to their arrival. I am not talking about people who are trashing the place and they might be great guests for some other host (hence their glowing reviews), but there's certain behaviour that's just not okay by me.

One example is when a couple books. You only have correspondence with the booking guest, so that's where you do your vetting, but you don't really get a sense of what the other person is like. It's one of the reasons I've decided only to host solos for the time being.

[Elaine701]

@Huma0 

Yes, I know. I've ditched so many lately. More than in our entire history. Not always because they seem "bad", sometimes it's because they missed something important, and when I mention it, they vanish.

For example, had a nice enquiry from what appeared to be a nice couple. They were enthusiastic, and really wanted to book it. I nicely reminded them that booking for two means they have one bedroom prepared. It's written in our listing. They can have another bedroom for 20€ per night. But she was apparently offended by that and left in a bit of a huff. Scared her off, I guess. Probably better off. 

Quite a few others have been pretty obviously "off". Demanding, rude... As if I'm supposed to be desperate for their (ultra cheap off season) booking and should acquiesce to any demand. It's unnerving sometimes. 

But that's how it always is in the off season, when prices drop. It's like a magnet for weirdos. Extra vigilance is in order.

But this year has been exceptional. Not only because of the many I have to ditch, but inexplicably, we've also had amazingly strong bookings from very apparently quality guests. All this after I switched to the full commission model and raised high season prices by 25%. We're currently fully booked for the summer, with the spring nearly fully booked and a few good bookings in the autumn. Never have we booked up this early in the season. I can't figure it out. I'm not complaining, I just can't identify why. 

Now, we're a different animal than you, as you're a share host, and we're a whole villa. By the way, I've just had a peek at your listings, and frankly, they're gorgeous. Really. I'm really impressed. I'd book it! Gorgeous. But I can see why you'd be wary of couples. You have to live with them 🤨

On that topic, despite being a villa comfortably accomodating 8 pax, in the off season, we love couples. And that's why we make it affordable for them, by changing the price model in the winter to a "per person per night" arrangement rather than "one price whole villa" as we do in summer. It would be too expensive for 2 or 4 pax. 

Couples are great. They don't stay up all night, don't party, don't have kids spilling things on the floor, are generally very clean and respectful. We only have to heat one bedroom, one set of bedding to be laundered. And couples love it because they have all this space to themselves. For two, it's a palace. So we price it to attract them. More people, higher price. More bedrooms.

Although the occasional Einstein makes it through the gauntlet, books it for two, intending to bring 3 or more, assuming they can sneak others in and use the other bedrooms, but unfortunately, they're locked, so they find themselves either sleeping on the couch (not nice) 😉, or putting their money on the table. 

Anyway, again, lovely rooms you have. May you be graced with guests who truly appreciate them! 

[Huma0]

@Elaine701 

Thanks for your kind words. Your villa looks amazing. If I was staying there as a couple, I would certainly feel very spoilt (even without the use of the additional bedrooms). It certainly is a palace for two!

I have no problem in general with hosting couples. When I still did short stays, I hosted so many of them and very rarely had any issues. I can only actually recall two couples out of hundreds that were really a problem.

There are a few reasons why I am wary of couples now:

1. I host long term stays. With three guest rooms, I can accommodate 3-6 guests (all rooms were fully booked pre-COVID) and the maximum was fine when it was only for a few days. When you are talking weeks or even months, 3 guests is company but 4 is already a crowd. I absolutely cannot imagine hosting 5 or 6 long term guests at the same time. Short term guests are usually out and about most of the time, whereas long term ones make full use of the kitchen. There is so much more cleaning to do. Already with four guests, it seems never ending and, weirdly, couples do not seem to clean up after themselves as well.

2. Things have changed since the pandemic. Guests are working or studying from home much more and going out socially much less. I hosted one couple recently for 3.5 months and have another couple here at the moment. They barely leave the house.

3. You are only corresponding with one person prior to the stay so you really don't get a sense of what the other would be like. Again, this is no big deal when you host short term, but with long term, you ideally need to feel comfortable with both people before the stay. Yesterday I had to have words with the booking guest (who is lovely) because I felt his boyfriend was being rude to me. Almost without fail, the second guest has not read the whole listing/house rules so you are much more likely to have issues with them.

4. The dynamic is different with a couple. I've noticed that often when they have a problem or complaint, they will team up to tackle you, rather than one person brining it up by themselves. You can feel a bit 'ganged up on'. Luckily I have learnt now not to let guests harass or intimidate me. Solo guests, on the other hand, make much more of an effort to 'fit in', e.g. following house rules (especially RE cleanliness), being friendly to other guests. 

Anyway, all of this has made me recently change the maximum occupancy of my rooms to one person. If I ever decide to return to short term hosting, I would probably change it back to two.

[Huma0]

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@Elaine701 wrote:

But that's how it always is in the off season, when prices drop. It's like a magnet for weirdos. Extra vigilance is in order.

But this year has been exceptional. Not only because of the many I have to ditch, but inexplicably, we've also had amazingly strong bookings from very apparently quality guests. All this after I switched to the full commission model and raised high season prices by 25%. We're currently fully booked for the summer, with the spring nearly fully booked and a few good bookings in the autumn. Never have we booked up this early in the season. I can't figure it out. I'm not complaining, I just can't identify why. 

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@Elaine701 

This is very interesting. I agree that 'low season' attracts more weirdos, but I don't think it's down to price. I don't adjust my seasonal rates anymore because it's not really applicable with long term guests. What I did notice before is that the Xmas/New Year period, when my prices were higher, seemed to attract more weirdos/problematic guests than any other. In general, guests seem less happy in London in the winter than in the other months. They find it too cold, wet, dark and miserable and they also don't get to enjoy my outdoor spaces.

Yes, this year has been exceptional though. Way more weirdos than ever before and also a lot of guests turned away for more practical reasons. There was one last night that I just knew wouldn't be happy here (based on her messages and the review she had left for another host). She tried to convince me but my gut feeling was that it was a bad idea.

I'm guessing the higher prices are attracting your more quality guests. As for being booked up so far in advance, could it have something to do with COVID? You would think that people would be more cautious about making plans in advance, but perhaps they just need something to look forward to and, while it's optimistic to think all will be okay in a few months, it can seem more likely that the pandemic will be better rather than worse in the summer than it is now.

[Elaine701]

@Huma0 

I'm not sure... 

Higher prices do attract a better quality of guest, but generally slower bookings. And you have to be sure to deliver a fairly pristine, quality product. I'm fine with that, but it doesn't really explain the sudden popularity at the higher prices. I suspect many Europeans are ready to take a holiday. Pent up demand.

And I'm seeing no evidence that they're struggling. In fact, I'm surprised at how much money past guests have been spending. After guests leave, we often find receipts for clothing and shoes and what not... that they've picked up in the shops... often in the 1000's. Really. It's pretty surprising. The holiday itself was far from cheap, but then they seem to spend like crazy once they're here. More than ever.. Also unexpected, considering the economic impacts of the pandemic. 

Covid..  You may have a good point with that. We've removed cancellation restrictions to provide a bit more confidence in these trying times. I personally would be afraid to book anything without some assurance that if lockdowns or other covid restrictions were imposed, that I wouldn't lose most or all of my money.

And you're right, I'm less afraid to remove those cancellation restrictions because covid related travel issues are far less likely in summer.

But I think our situation must be different than yours, since for us historically, lowering the price not only consistently results in an almost immediate rush of enquiries and requests, but it's very predictable that we'll be seeing a lot more suspicious and weird guest characters show up. It's like a magnet. Shields up, Scotty! 

[Huma0]

@Elaine701 

Actually, I realised that I didn't phrase that last post properly. I agree with you that in general, lower prices can often attract less desirable guests and that is one reason why I don't agree to additional discounts on top of the long term ones I already have in place. 

What I meant was, now that I don't change my prices seasonally any more, I am still finding that the last couple of months has attracted a lot of less than desirable guests, so there's something else going on there.

When I hosted short term, my prices were lower in winter, with the exception of Xmas and New Year when they were at their highest. Oddly enough, the holiday period attracted the worst guests to the point that I decided not to host any more short term guests during that period.

So, sometimes it's to do with price and other times, there is something else going on. It's really gotten bad recently, which is why I have turned IB off for one of my rooms. I'm waiting to see how that goes, i.e. if I still get bookings or not.

[Maggie35]

I agree.  If you sense trouble in initial communication just don't host them.  Some people spell difficulty before they arrive. 

[Maggie35]

I have never, fortunately, HD to ask a guest to.leave,but I have detected a very troublesome guests who were complaining before they even checked in.  Sensing a problem I suggested that they find another place to stay and helped them with this. Whew!  I prefer losing a guest rather than having a person  who nit picks and complains all the time.  This was not an Air bnb customer.  We cannot do this without consequences with Air bnb as I think once we have accepted a guest.  We should have this right to refuse any guests who present problems right away!.  The guests seemed happier with my help.My place just wasn't to their liking and taste.  Fair enough. We can't please everyone all the time. Reviews are dreadful game we are in .  I don't like it.  I hate the pressure put on us, and how tenuous our rating is depending on so many different expectations and opinions of our guests.  I do my best and I try to ease everyone.  That's who we are but some people are never satisfied.