Damage Dispute Denied Due to 5 Hours of New Guest Arrival

[Anna9908]

So I recently had an issue with a guest. I started another thread on the "review" (which Airbnb helped resolve, THANK YOU) but want to start a new discussion around the actual dispute denial because I don't think it is fair. This guest checked into our property on a Sunday. Normally, I don't stop at the property but I stopped there to check on the place. Both myself and the cleaner were onsite and noticed no damage prior to his stay from the previous guests. He checked in later that day. When he left, an interior bedroom door was damaged. It looked like someone kicked in the door. It resulted in the door closing but not being able to lock anymore. I asked the guest to reimburse me for the purchase of a new door only. This isn't including hardware  ( I think the old hardware will work, but I can't test this until I actually have a new door to put up), installation or taxes on the purchase of a new door. It was $145 request because the door is a natural wood look and because it was broken with a huge chuck out of where the hardware is attached. 

The guest denied my claim, stated the damage was already there and commented that he "joked" with his girlfriend about reporting it. So I said "Ok, let me reach out to the guest before you, if they state the damage was there then I will apologize, if not, then I will ask airbnb to get involved". (While I know we didn't miss anything, I realize I am human and stranger things have happened.) I reached out to the guest before him who stated they never noticed this damage during their stay either. Note, that is now 6 people who can attest there was no damage prior to his stay because that rental party had 4 people. The reservation with damage had 2 people. After my message referring to escalated to airbnb, the guest I have the dispute with got super defensive and left me an overall 3 star review in retaliation (that story on a separate thread). So I got airbnb involved. They denied my claim without really contacting me. I forgot to include my rental agreement that he signed which states he needs to inspect the property when he arrives. 

Here was a the first response I received from Airbnb - No details into why.

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Then here is a response of the second response I received from Airbnb:

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So I feel like this response from Airbnb is that we can't prove the new guest who checked in didn't cause the damage in a short 5 hour window, right?? However, in my private messages to "Jonathan" (who broke the door), he clearly states that the damage was present during his stay. So why is this valid? Anyone have any ideas how to escalate this to someone. They say in their email that responding back to them will not help. It is a final decision.

Also - weird side note, "Jonathan" stated in a conversation that I didn't "try to negotiate" the damage fee. Doesn't that prove guilt? If you didn't do it, why would you suggest there should have been a negotiation in our conversation. You damaged the property, pay for the damages. It isn't a negotiation.  

**[Conversation/messages with CS removed in line with Community Center Guidelines]

[Robin4]

@Anna9908 

Anna, when it comes to dispute resolution Airbnb will hide behind any verbal 'bush' they can cultivate. If the issue is one of Airbnb against you, the host, their rules are open to a myriad of interpretations which they will exploit. But it the issue is you against Airbnb they will enforce their terms an definitions to the letter with no such thing as interpretation!  They will not only bend their own rules to suit their purpose they will actually break them, cut you off from any form of resolution, and if you call them out and still attempt to pursue them for what you feel is justice, they will suspend or close your account.

Airbnb are only a host friendly company as long as you do not make waves or have any disagreements with either the company or the company's guests!

Anna, I have had an electric bed broken, linens and quilt covers destroyed, a glass shower screen broken, plates and cups broken, a chair broken, books and wine stolen, the entire contents of a first aid cabinet stolen, stocks of condiments from the re-stock cupboard stolen. Since 2015 when I started hosting I have had 10 lousy guests who I would not want to have anything to do with again! But I have had 420+ that I would welcome back here again in a heartbeat! It is possibly a bit unfair that the 420+ great guests have had to subsidise the 10 lousy ones but that is the nature of business......you price your listing to cover your costs and make a profit. 

I would suggest you put a portion of each rental amount into a damage fund and that covers minor damage, don't don't hassle the guest or Airbnb at the time, just just put things right and get on with hosting the next guest. You will find your hosting much less stressful!

Faced with this situation I do not leave a review but, once the review window has closed I message the guest through the Airbnb message stream and tell them how disappointed I am at their preparedness to abuse my property and walk away from it. I wish them well but state I would decline the opportunity to host them again. I then report their profile to Airbnb and comprehensively explain why the report has been lodged. That makes both the guest and Airbnb feel guilty. The guest has no way to lash out at me and in all probability has in the 14 day review window given me a good review because they think I have let them dodge a bullet!

On I think maybe 4 occasions I have had  a conciliatory message from Airbnb admin thanking me for my feedback and expressing sympathy that this stay had issues, and offer me support if I need it. I simply message back that I have resolved the issue at my expense without Airbnb's involvement but would appreciate if Airbnb took steps to make sure the guest does not get the opportunity to repeat their behaviour with other guests.

I do know that this tactic worked where four specific guests were concerned because their Airbnb profiles disappeared!

But Anna, it does work the other way as well, of those great 429 guests some have been truly remarkable.......

Some time ago a guest came to me all apologetic, she had broken the bowl I keep in the fridge with eggs for each guest. I said to her ….”Roxy, don’t worry about it, it was of no value, I have plenty more here to replace it”….but she said she felt bad and wanted to replace it. I once again told her not to bother, it was fine!

A week later, out of the blue, a parcel arrived…….

A new bowl with a $50 note in it. I had a little cry when I saw it, it was so nice but so unexpected.

I could see from the parcel that the postage cost her $15, the bowl must have cost around the same. A bowl that had no value to me, I can’t even remember where it came from and I am sure I could have replaced from the local op shop for a couple of dollars, cost that guest $80.

I felt terrible, I wish the incident had never happened, the last thing I ever want to do is take advantage of someone else.

You can bet the next time Roxy wants to stay here there is no way she will pay my regular listing amount….I have to make it up to her some way!

I guess I could not believe that a guest would be so generous!

Anna, we do have to take the good with the bad but if you don't expect too much from Airbnb, you won't be disappointed. Take control is the best advice I can give you.

Cheers........Rob

[Ann72]

@Robin4  "Faced with this situation I do not leave a review but, once the review window has closed I message the guest through the Airbnb message stream and tell them how disappointed I am at their preparedness to abuse my property and walk away from it. I wish them well but state I would decline the opportunity to host them again. I then report their profile to Airbnb and comprehensively explain why the report has been lodged. That makes both the guest and Airbnb feel guilty. The guest has no way to lash out at me and in all probability has in the 14 day review window given me a good review because they think I have let them dodge a bullet!"

This is sheer brilliance.  Well played, Rob.

[Anna9908]

@Robin4 Wow, Robin! Thank you so much for responding. It was wonderful hearing your story about the bowl! I will say the guest after this person was a dream. She said something to me through messenger that almost made me cry, she said how much she loved my place and hoped "People were nice to me, as a host". I know it was a smaller gesture but it was right in the middle of the dispute. I wanted to tell her all my problems (as if she was my best friend) but just said thank you instead. I guess in terms of damage disputes it just seems like a losing battle. I confronted this guest, then 5 minutes later he left me a review. So I knew it was in retaliation. It's hard because you can't read it until you leave one for them. I do feel really lucky that the guy decided to actually mention the dispute in the review and stated how wonderful the property was, this lead airbnb to say that the review mentioned information that wasn't relevant to someone booking the place in the future. In terms of my review for him, I really battled with leaving one. I feel like I always want to give people the benefit of the doubt and believe people are good. I think I wrote something like "I believe this person was a good guest. However, we noticed some damage after his stay. When we contacted him about it he immediately got defensive and left a review. While it could have been a misunderstanding, he wasn't understanding towards hosts". I am not sure if that is a good review or not. I am not even sure I did the right thing by leaving a review but hopefully it helps someone else or at the least makes the guest realize he needs to pay for damages. He can't just damage a place and walk away or get verbally aggressive with a host.

[Robin4]

@Anna9908 

Anna, you know the moment you 'confront' a guest you will get a bad review! Now the object of hosting is to make money, keep that supply of guests walking through your door, and the only way you are going to do that is by manipulating the system to keep the guest 'publicly' happy.

In my 415 reviews (382 on Airbnb) 402 of them have been 5 star. Funnily enough the only 3 star I ever got was from a recent guests who's review simply said...."It was fine", gave me a 5 in all the categories but a 3 overall, which meant the stay met his expectations !

While that review window is open Anna keep your cool, the time for vengeance will come but, you have to wait until the guest can no longer publicly harm you. 

I have probably had  a few guests that would have given me a revenge review......but I never gave them the opportunity!

Cheers.........Rob

[Mike-And-Jane0]

@Anna9908 As with all insurance style issues there are rules that have to be met. All companies use these rules to deny claims as it is a very easy first filter for them. The fact that you didn't meet the rules gives them every right to deny your claim - The rights/wrongs of the rules do not come into it I am afraid.

[Kia272]

@Anna9908  Your cabin is gorgeous!

I'm with @Robin4 on this one. For the amount of $$, I don't know that it's worth the situation you are in with the guest right now, or the review situation it created. You are really lucky that you got that removed. 

The AirBnB system is definitely stacked against hosts when it comes to things like this. We are damned if we do and damned if we don't. You basically have to accuse a guest of damage (unless they confess), and likely before reviews have been written and posted. It's a perfect sh*t-storm for hosts. 

I'd say if there's major damage, that's a different story, but for a certain dollar amount and piece of mind, I'd consider it the cost of doing business, and just let it go. 

You can do as Robin did, and wait until all is said and done, and definitely report the profile. 

We hosts are captive to AirBnB policies and procedures. Many of our criticisms seem to be ignored, and AirBnB is slow to enact change. We simply have to make a decision as to whether being on the platform is worth it. Good luck going forward! Kia

[Robin4]

@Kia272 

Kia, I have my listing comprehensively insured but, I have opted to have a $2,500 deductible/excess so that means my insurer is only obligated to major events.......of which I haven't had one!

For this reason my insurance premium is less than $1.45 per hosting night and is only applicable for nights that I actually host! My STR insurance coverage cost me $261.00 per year ....less that 3 nights hosting!

I have peace of mind that I am not going to be hit with a major claim for either damage or public liability.

My Insurer is one of the most respectable operating in Australia......I have covered all the bases and I have no intention of ever taking Airbnb up on their 'Host Protection Scheme' as I am 100% sure that scheme is nothing more than a company enticer, and when put to the test would result in heartbreak!

Kia, the thing you have to realise, guests make Airbnb money, hosts cost Airbnb money  so, it it is obvious who Airbnb's loyalties are going to favour!

Cheers.........Rob

[John5097]

@Anna9908 

My policy is that if I'm 100% positive guest caused damage and it cost me money to repair or replace I'll take some action. Most of the time guest sends me a message in the app that a glass was broken. I tell them not to worry about that one bit, as its easier and more cost effective to have glass, and I've broken coffee cups myself unloading the dish washer. For normal wear and tear or a stain I can get out myself, also no problem. I don't like it but not going to get into with guest over something I can get out. So far no serous damage, so haven't asked guest to pay. I do know that a claim has to be filed before next guest checks in, and host should do a basic research if that is a concern when they create a listing. I already knew Airbnb insurance would likely not cover most damage or injuries so also have STR rental insurance.   

In all honestly it wasn't clear to me who caused the damage to the door. You just bing on site isn't the same as being 100% sure. I was actually curious how the door got broken or which door it was. If its a whole house rental I'm not sure why a guest would need to kick in a bedroom door?  I'm confident a guest broke it as they tend to break or slam anything they can't figure out, but not clear which guest. That's something a few drips of super glue could piece together long enough that no one would notice just walking by. Right now I clean and disinfect all the door knobs so would have been 100% sure. Just taking previous guest word for it, isn't how it works.  I'm glad you dodged a bullet with the review. I also think reviews should be removed when guest goes into "crystal ball" mode, predicting what host will do with future guest, but have seen those stand with other host who have the same situation.  Anyway its a real minefield with damages. I'm building up my 5* reviews as best I can to take a hit when I need to confront a guest. At the very least if they caused damage that I couldn't repair myself and wasn't an accident I would at least leave them an honest review and low star ratings so they couldn't instant book with me again, and help inform next host. If something is missing and I'm not 100% sure who did it, I'm not going to accuse anyone. That's good your cleaner noticed it. Off the top of my head, I would ask the guest if they noticed it, and just leave it at that, if I wasn't 100% sure. To me its less about the money and more about being honest and accountable, and I have to draw the line somewhere and have a policy. It may also change as I learn more and read other host experiences. Best wishes on your hosting journey! 

[Anna9908]

@John5097 - That was a good point about the door handles and totally forgot to mention that to the guest!!! My cleaner is the one who cleans the place and wipes the handles confirming there was no damage at the time. However, I did not even think about that in my response to him. Wish I would have said it now, but dealing with this person any more is almost not worth it. 

In my case, I wish I could fix it. The main issue is the wood was chipped where the handle meets the door jam. A chunk of wood was taken out. I thought through wood puddy and adding a small piece of wood back into the door but it is larger then that a natural wood door (so no paint to cover up). 

[John5097]

@Anna9908 My suggestions was just moving forward. I never said to keep confonting guest. I was saying just the opposite. That I would avoid accusing a guest if I wasn't 100% sure. If I didn't clean it myself I wouldn't be confident enough to know exactly when it happened. Like I said a few drops of glue and something like that could go unnoticed for a long time and cleaner may have only noticed it when it fell off a month later, or thought it was a repair you had made. I doubt you will have damage like that again for long time. If you are confident he did it, fine, it just wan't clear to me reading your post. 

[John5097]

@Anna9908 Just a heads up. You can contact Airbnb support and request to have your review removed of a guest. I didn't read it. But its best to be careful how you phrase it.

For example, I would have wrote a review. "My housekeeper reported some issues with the condition of the cabin when cleaning." and not "This guest broke a door and lied about it." 

Not accusing you of anything, just mentioning an option for you are anyone else reading this. If your review as like the later I would request ABB to remove it. 

[Marci837]

If you do talk to the guest about the damage,they usually retaliate and leave a bad review.so raise your prices and consider other companies that have your back.