Extenuating policy

[Alexandra1096]

We are all watching the Coronovirus developments which are having an impact on individuals and businesses alike. In the UK it was the final straw to bring down a national airline, and there will be many businesses going under this year as a result of cancelled bookings. This is why I find it surprising that without apparent consultation, Airbnb has changed the cancellation policies for all Airbnb hosts, all of whom are now subject to the new extenuating circumstances cancellation policy.  Firstly, presumably this is permitted within the terms and conditions by which hosts sign up with Airbnb?   Secondly, whilst the financial impact on a holiday maker is for that holiday alone, and a holiday maker may well have insurance in place to cover cancellation,  the financial hit of Coronovirus for hosts could be the majority if not all our bookings being cancelled  over an entire season or more, with the consequent financial distress, and possible business/ hosting closures if hosts cannot meet their running costs (mortgage, insurances etc.) Surely the 'extenuating circumstances' policy is disproportionate in the way it affects hosts compared to guests?  I myself have only moderate cancellation policies in place to date, so little protection anyway. But what about the hosts chose stricter cancellation policies for the financial protection that gave them?  Guests who booked with these hosts did so with full knowledge of the cancellation policy, and could have made different choices. With prior knowledge that Airbnb can simply change these cancellation policies, might some Airbnb hosts have preferred to take up platforms elsewhere; and is it the right of Airbnb to have prevented that choice by not being transparent about their willingness and ability to change cancellation policies without any consultation or prior warning?  I think that Airbnb has made a poor decision here and that hosts should have the right of reply. 

[Cathie19]

I think @Alexandra1096 , there are too many factors in this complex situation. There are other threads on this Platform which are agreeing with you. All hosts are suffering in some form or other, quite separately from the cancellation policy.

I would pretty well guess that Airbnb guests, unless very high end of the market, will not have insurance to cover them. Since WHO announced a global emergency, unless paying an arm and a leg, their general travel insurance will not cover a pandemic, epidemic or threat of these. Insurance companies were well ahead of the game and made changes to policies very quickly, catching travellers out.

So remember, currently, these are extraordinary times with everyone in the same boat! Maybe @Airbnb  should be considering a different tack during these periods of global restrictions and unwarranted/ warranted fear of global travellers.

How about Airbnb start advertising quite separately, to visit your “own country”?

That way, whilst the global traveller is staying home, they can be planting holiday ideas for the now, utilising the local Airbnbs.

It’s about being smart ALL ROUND, till this Covid-19 blows over. 

[Ashleigh54]

Cathie, l disagree with you, most guests do take out travel insurance particularly with flights involved. And as Alexandra states, it is one booking for the guest whereas in our case it could be our whole livelihood at risk of loss of earnings. We will certainly suffegr with the potential need to sell up. Very distressing times indeed! 

[Cathie19]

I’m sorry to hear of your situation @Ashleigh54. Your listings are just gorgeous, and I am not trying to dispel the hardship of hosts. I am also a host, although my geography and suburban location doesn’t really lend itself to 52 weeks of the year for bookings!

So all I’m trying to say is very few international travellers’ decisions, will be simply based on cancelling a singular Airbnb  booking.

You are also most welcome to disagree with my opinion. I welcome opinions and respect the forum and its members. I agree with you that most travellers have travel insurance, for that is what I said.

 I never travel without insurance, but currently, cannot get any cover for a pandemic/epidemic or threat of either, unless I’m willing to “sell a kidney”.  I still like other travellers, have travel insurance for everything else. Unless a specifically high insurance is taken out that covers cancellation on a whim, MOST travellers aren’t covered for the current Covid19 crisis, even if it’s not as  deadly as Sars. I actually travelled during SARS to China.....

General travel insurance policies, unless they are very expensive or purchased before the announcement of the global emergency, will not  include:

Not covered for flights being rescheduled if operationally related to Covid19 etc.

Not covered for extra accommodation costs if delayed in a country due to Covid19 outbreak or self isolation requirements by a govt or local authorities. This could be from someone else, not directly related to your travelling cohort: but Covid19-19 related. Not covered for medical costs if they required medical testing, that was considered directly related to the virus, including hospitalisation or repatriation.

So the situation for the “average” well prepared and insured traveller is far more complex with the ifs and buts... You may say it’s only one booking for a guest versus your livelihood, and I truly respect your opinion. As a host and a guest, I’m seeing it differently. My example or upcoming trip involves many Airbnbs and hotels across six weeks, and as a guest, I have a lot to lose as well. Including cancelling international flights, tours, car rental, the money I’ve spent getting the appropriate gear for my travelling, partly for on the Camino and not to mention the hours of walking to train. There’s plenty of investment and losses from both sides, guest and host, is all I’m saying.... 

I don’t necessarily agree with @Airbnb and their cancellation Policy, but many companies are trying to make sound decisions in a changing environment of uncertainty, and information. Trying to please everyone is not going to happen in this case. Having guests willing to not lose trust with Airbnb is as difficult as hosts not losing trust with them. No guests = no hosts. No hosts = guests will find other accommodation. (In the Airbnb commercial world, I think it is that simple.....)

So currently we are all sadly, caught between a rock and a hard place. There are no winners......

[Susan17]

@Cathie19 

Sorry, but I have to strongly disagree on this. There's a whole world of difference between people losing what they paid for an extended holiday, and people losing their livelihoods/family's primary source of income, which countless thousands of hosts around the world inevitably will do, due to this pandemic. There's no comparison, at all. 

Also, as you mention, travel insurance policies (as with every kind of insurance policy) do indeed have escalating levels of cover, depending on the amount the purchaser wishes to pay. Travellers never seem to have any problem shelling out untold thousands of €/£/¥/$ for their luxury getaways, yet they really don't want to take their own responsibility for their own travel mishaps, by paying a tiny fraction of their entire holiday budget for a fully comprehensive  travel insurance policy that will cover them for all eventualities.

Just because people want to save an extra few quid for their holiday spends by opting to buy a low-cover policy (or more commonly, by choosing not to purchase any travel insurance at all), should absolutely not result in total strangers being forced to take the hit and be deprived of much-needed and relied-on income, solely because of the traveller's thriftiness and negligence to adequately protect themselves, in the event of their own travel disruptions. 

And anyone willing to take a punt on booking holidays/travel since the coronavirus outbreak escalated won't, of course, be able to purchase insurance with that level of cover now. However, if they're willing to risk travelling during a pandemic, then they should also be prepared to risk losing their travel costs, rather than once again nonchalantly expecting random strangers to foot the bill for their gambles, if and when their plans go belly-up. Everyone needs to take some personal responsibility for their own actions, their own choices and their own potential losses in times like these. 

[Cathie19]

Thanks @Susan17  for your point of view. A healthy debate is good, and that it can be had in this forum, speaks volumes. Your points noted. 🌺

[Rowena29]

@Susan17; @Cathie19; @Alexandra1096 

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone - just offering an ancdote.

An associate of mine has  been planning a 6 week trip to Italy for the last 3 years. They booked it 6 months ago, long before the pandemic was thought of and their travel insurance was certainly not budget  - it cost a lot. they are due to leave in a few days   They've just been told by the insurer that they will not receive one cent reimbursement, unless the Australian government specifically bans them from leaving the country ( despite the fact that all the areas they plan to travel to are on the quarantined areas adn they will not be allowed to enter). shes not using airbnb BTW. All kinds of people are getting caught out adn the butterfly effect is tremendous

[Susan17]

@Rowena29 

Well if a reputable travel insurance company have a good and legal reason not to pay out on a CFAR policy, why then, should a random Airbnb host be forced to pick up the slack for both the traveller and  the insurance company, and be left out of pocket - and potentially be put out of business - through circumstances over which they have zero control? 

If the travel disruption circumstances (whatever they may be - coronavirus or otherwise) are not covered by mega-rich travel insurance companies to whom the traveller is paying a premium, then they most certainly shouldn't have to be covered by regular people trying to scrape a living. 

[Rowena29]

@Susan17  I certainly am not pro airbnb and their completely biased extenuating circumstances policy adn I wasn't arguing for it in any way -  just pointing out people are being shafted left, right and centre and it's not always because they haven't taken  appropriate and adequate measures.

I'm one of those regular people trying to scrape a living and going backwards fast and I"ve always been very careful to take out appropriate insurance

I haven't had any cancellations - because I've only had 2 x 2 day bookings since Jan 3 and Jan was my peak time for the last 2 years.   I"ve been struggling with the bushfires killing off business before corona was even thought. I've got loss of tenant income protection but I'm not covered for that because I can't prove that the bushfires and corona are  causing me to lose income - I just have no bookings. (A cancelled booking would actually give me a bit of ammunition).  I have a couple of bookings  over Easter and I 'm 99% sure I'll be on the receiving end of the extenuating  policy myself in a few weeks as April/May is when corona is due to peak here.

There's talk of schools being closed after Easter- if so as a casual contract teacher I'll lose my only source of "proper" income for God knows how long  - (despite having personal income protection) right one top my always most desperate time  of no income at  all from Nov 28 - mar 15.  The self employed, the casual employee and the small business worker are all in for an absolute thrashing right on top trying to recover from nearly being burned to the ground and then nearly being flooded out in a 100 year rain and subsidence event.   I'm currently borrowing from my 17 year old who works part time at Macdonalds. I well antiquated with how dire things are for the average Joe. I'm one of them.

[Susan17]

@Rowena29 

When I tagged you in that post, I certainly wasn't inferring that you support the EC policy or otherwise.. I was just kinda thinking aloud! Apologies if I came across wrong! :))

Like you, I haven't had any cancellations for February or March - because I've had almost no bookings to cancel (not a single booking for March, even for St Patrick's, and very few in Sept, Oct, Nov, Dec and Jan either) In my case, the dearth of bookings is as a direct result of "man-made" (ie Airbnb) disasters though, as opposed to natural disasters, but the dire consequences remain the same, in all instances.

As sad as it is, I almost laughed when I read that you've just had to borrow from your 17 year old son to tide you over - I've just had to do that exact same thing this very weekend! Scary sh*t, indeed (not to mention, humiliating to the core - very last thing you want your kid to know, is that you're a broke-ass mam!!)

And going forward - like hundreds of thousands of other small independent hosts who do depend on their Airbnb income to feed their families and keep a roof over their heads - if we're forced to subsidise countless guests' holiday losses for circumstances completely outwith our control - circumstances which may or may not even be covered by reputable, long-established, super-wealthy travel insurance providers - then the consequences will inevitably be catastrophic for most, potentially resulting in not only the loss of income and livelihoods, but in some instances, the loss of families' primary homes as well. 

Incredibly stressful times, for sure. But keep your head up, sister - you (we!) will get through this. Somehow! :))

[Rowena29]

@Susan17 we've got our bank manager coming up to out listing for a pissy weekend in 4 weeks (organised before things became QUITE so catastrophic). ( he's not your typical bank manager, and we became friends before he was made the manager, so not quite as sycophantic as it sounds). I reckon that ought to be good for seeing us past at least 1 defaulted mortage repayment if it comes to that. 

I"ve blocked the listing off after Easter adn listed for LTR  ( we always planned to do this, but I suppose if airbnb had been unbelievably successful we wouldn't have) We have - I think - the tenant family of our dreams.  The weekly rent is high -  a bit more than I would routinely manage to earn for a weekend stay which is mainly  what we got, AND of course they're paying  the electricity , the wifi, the water, the gas. Plus all the time and petrol I'll save not cleaning and prepping.  We've just got to to make it to mid  May...

We always knew LTR would be a better option for us, once we'd got some basic substantial external house and yard work done, but I"m a bit staggered at how much people are prepared to pay for weekly rent. I only listed for 2 days and was testing the water with a much higher rent than I thought we'd get, and have had no shortage of enquiries. 

There's light at the end of the tunnel, but not in airbnb land. For us anyway.

On another note, over Christmas, before things got quite so financially tight, I went a bit crazy preserving and canning - how I relax.  My cupboards are now well stocked with preserved legumes, vegetables, soups, spaghetti sauces, plum puddings, jams, jellies, relishes.  I'm thinking it wasn't such a bad thing to do. I may not have enough toilet paper and paracetemol, but we've got enough food to be self sufficient if we suddenly have to stay at home for 14+days. Which is just as well because there's no credit  left on the credit card to order online .There's probably even enough to spare for our pet pig and pet goose, and if the dogs can survive on rice and vegies, there's enough for them too

I'm saying this tongue in cheek, but I kind of mean it too....

If  our local Maccas quarantines itself or it's casual staff  in the next few weeks, we're stuffed though... :))

[Cathie19]

💐💛

[Michelle53]

@Cathie19    I'm taking an international trip later in the year.   Also, staying in an Airbnb (my first time as a guest!).   I bought CFAR insurance (cancel for any reason). One has to buy it within a certain number of days after booking the first travel-related expense (in my case, within 21 days).  I have to cancel no less than 48 hours ahead for it to be of use.

Yes, it was more expensive than regular travel insurance, but worth it for an international trip.   I've pre-purchased train tickets, event tickets, and the Airbnb in addition to my flight. 

So, my biggest concern was what happens if the flight is only half-full - would they cancel ?

When I called the airline, they said it is possible they might cancel the flight, or combine two flights together, but they notify me no less than 72 hours ahead. (hopefully).  If any later than that, they are obligated to refund the ticket. 

Airlines, right now, are waiving change and cancellation fees for non-refunbable bookings within certain dates. 

So I'm covered, according to the insurance company and the airline.   I guess we'll see what happens if and when trip time comes. 

[Cathie19]

Some good news @Michelle53 . Thanks for contributing your information to this thread.

[Ashleigh54]

Please see my response post a phone call yesterday to AirBNB below.

Dear AirBnB team, 

Further to your message below and our recent conversation, please find confirmation of the points discussed. 

With regard to the Coronavirus situation, it has already been clarified by the UK Government that where travel to affected places has been officially banned, then travellers should claim on their travel insurance as this official banning of travel activates its acceptance. 

I suggest that the advice from AirBnB to travellers from the current list of countries banning travel (China, South Korea and parts of Italy) and any future countries to be added in due course, should be same! Claim on your travel insurance. 

The financial onus should not be borne by the hosts (or AirBnB for that matter) but by the insurance companies which will inevitably pass this on to the relevant government.

Always take out travel insurance - good advice from any travel organisation.

“Personal Extenuating circumstances” criteria, such as family bereavement, loss of earnings, etc (all requiring documented evidence, I’m sure) are perfectly fine. This current hiatus should NOT be included as it will be dictated by the relevant Govt./Govts official policy. Hence the relevance of insurance claims. A personal fear of travel should NOT be considered acceptable with the consequent financial penalties primarily incurred by hosts. 

I look forward to a clarification communication. 

Best regards, Ash and Dave Cox, Superhosts in The Cotswolds.