House rules/cancelling same day

[Rachael287]

My guests are due today!! I have repeatedly asked they read terms and conditons/house rules and for each one's identity.  Now, 15 minutes before their day of checking ie. 11.45pm they send through id's which show they do not meet house rules.  Can I cancel them. I asked 3 times for information.  I feel they have deliberately witheld this information in the hopes I don't have time to stop them coming...what should I do? Very unfair and I feel played.

[Kate867]

@Rachael287   Having looked at your House Rules, which do not seem at all excessive and quite reasonable I am assuming that it is a same ‘sex’ group which have booked and yes, I also suspect they probably ran it right up to the ‘wire’ to avoid you cancelling them.  As it is a clear indication of a violation of your house rules due to them not discussing with you first as requested then I think you could ask Airbnb to cancel this reservation on your behalf with no penalty.  Only you can make that decision though, is the loss of this reservation worth it?

[Branka-and-Silvia0]

@Rachael287  if they instant booked then you have a right to cancel penalty-free 3x a year if you feel uncomfortable. At least that has been the option, I don't know if still is, Airbnb is changing on a daily basis

[Huma0]

@Rachael287 

I don't know if this was an instant book or not, but if it is an instant book, you can cancel penalty free based on the fact that you feel uncomfortable with the guests/feel they might break your house rules. Personally, I think it's safer to get Airbnb to do this for you to ensure there are no penalties.

If it was a request booking, that's trickier. You will face penalties if you book. I would tell the guests that as you clearly wrote in your listing that you do not accept same sex groups under 35, they need to cancel their reservation and offer to refund them. They may still lose their Airbnb fees though, so again, it might be a case of contacting CS to get them to do this.

Or, you just accept the booking as is, but make it clear to them that they need to follow your rules and will be charged should any damages occur.

In future, if it's a request booking, I would not accept until they had confirmed those details that you require.

[Anonymous]

@Rachael287   Your House Rules appear to be in violation of the Nondiscrimination Policy. You're not allowed to set different terms based on guests' gender unless you're a homestay host who shares living space with the guests.  "No same-sex groups" also fundamentally excludes gay and lesbian couples from booking. Whether that's your intention or not, it can easily get you banned from Airbnb if someone reports discrimination.

And of course, that's exactly what these guests will do if you cancel their booking at the last minute. You really don't have a leg to stand on there. I strongly recommend that you let the booking stand and revise your rules.

[Gwen386]

I was wondering if @Rachael287 could actually make this type of statement/request. I also wondered why anyone thats LGBTQ would make a reservation unless as @Anonymous  stated, the host could be sued and they know it! Since property is in Spain, maybe there are different laws related to discrimination; but if I were host, I would tread very carefully. 

[Anonymous]

@Gwen386  Discrimination in the provisions of goods and services based on sexual orientation and gender identity is not banned nationwide in Spain, but it is illegal in the autonomous community of Andalusia, where Rachel's listing is located. 

I don't know whether this host is homophobic or not, but that sure is how the listing comes off. How it's any of the host's business which sets of genitalia the guests have is a mystery to me.

[Huma0]

@Anonymous @Gwen386 

That is not how it came off to me at all, but I did certainly think about it in the first instance before I read the listing.

What @Rachael287 had specified is no same-sex groups under 35 years old. I suspect this is to avoid the groups of young partiers that often wreck havoc in holiday resorts in Spain. It sounds like the complex/area where her listing is located is very family orientated.

So, this would not exclude same-sex couples 35 and over. Also, the listing is for up to four adults and two children. It's less likely that one couple would book this, although I guess an LGBTQ couple with one or two kids might, or a pair of LGBTQ couples, or an LGBTQ couple travelling with friends of the same gender...

I don't think it was @Rachael287 's intention at all to be homophobic, because she doesn't exclude anyone over 35 on the basis of gender, but you are right that she needs to tread carefully because it could easily be interpreted that way and, also, I think you are not allowed to turn away guests based on gender unless you are a homestay host.

[Anonymous]

@Huma0   Those groups of partiers that wreak havoc are quite often mixed gender, so that distinction still seems arbitrary. And 35 as a minimum age for anything is something I've never encountered before, especially on a platform that's largely designed by and for millennials.

We all have our biases and stereotypes, but a general rule, you never want to convey them in your listing or communication with guests. And things get absurd if you find yourself telling a group of women in their early thirties that they're not allowed to stay unless they bring a man along, or vice versa. Even if you're not a bigot, the whole internet will believe that you are once that story hits the media.

[Huma0]

@Anonymous 

I totally see your point and 35 does seem a bit old to set this limit. However, it does depend somewhat on the host's locality and experience.

I was recently in Riga. There were a few tourists there at the time who all seemed very well behaved, EXCEPT for numerous stag parties (British unfortunately), who behaved terribly and I would not want them in m listing in a million years. Locals told me it was a real problem there. These were all groups of men in their early to mid 30s. All of them.

There are many places where you will see either groups of guys or groups of girls (hen parties, or otherwise) getting beyond drunk and causing mayhem. They are not always super young. It's less common to see mixed gender groups behaving that way but of course by no means impossible.

Perhaps the host is basing the gender and age barriers on past experiences. It doesn't seem crazy at all to me but, yes, I agree that communicating this in the listing or to guests is dangerous ground and it's not something that I personally would do. I just see where the host might be coming from.

[Anonymous]

@Huma0   Berlin is one of those places too - my neighborhood is packed with dive bars, so hardly a weekend goes by that we don't see a stag or hen do stumbling around the street. They're always British. Some venues post signs on the door that say - in English - NO STAG OR HEN PARTIES. They'd probably say "No British tourists" too, if they thought they could get away with it. 

These groups don't tend to stay more than 3 nights, so setting a longer minimum stay would weed them out without making anyone feel discriminated against.

[Huma0]

@Anonymous 

That's a great solution for avoiding stag and hen dos.

However, sadly it's not just those groups that behave badly. I am afraid British groups of friends on week-long package holidays have also gained a pretty poor reputation, and these often tend to be single gender rather than mixed.

I cannot seem to see @Rachael287 's listing anymore but I looked at her guidebook for an idea of the location. There is an English pub there so I assume it does attract a fair number of British visitors. Otherwise, it looks like a nice, scenic place to visit, not the sort of place that would attract groups of partiers. 

However, it kind of depends on how it is marketed and package holiday companies can be very misleading about this (I have learnt this the hard way when a location that was sold to me by a booking site as a remote and peaceful getaway turned out to be an overpacked resort solely for British tourists who picked fights with the locals and would demand egg and chips for every meal).

I searched for the location for @Rachael287 's  listing and the results I got were interesting. The very same company was marketing the destination to very different groups of travellers.

In one instance, it wrote:

"Blissful holiday weather, historic Moorish architecture and miles of golden Mediterranean beach – Mojacar is one of the Costa de Almeria's favourite destinations. Whitewashed buildings dot the long coastline, giving the resort a classic feel through the day and into the night. You won’t escape the lush landscape. You’re in for a very authentic Spanish experience in the older, cobbled village too."

but in another:

"Fun-filled nights out take centre stage in Mojacar. As the sun sets, this Spanish town becomes a hub for nightlife to suit all. Good music and good vibes are in abundance at bars such as Mandala and Lua..." going on to list sports bars, nightclubs etc. etc.

I think that if one wanted to avoid the groups of travellers that are attracted to the latter description, the best way was to be very, very clear in the listing what type of travellers it's suited to, without specifying age/gender and to have some clear and strict house rules, but this is not always enough.

I have no idea what @Rachael287 has experienced though to make her choose the age/gender restrictions, so I'm really just guessing at this point.

[Anonymous]

@Huma0  Yep, I've seen a few of those places in Spain that cater to British package tourists, and accidentally stayed near one once. Across the street from my hotel, there was - I kid you not - a strip club called Boobies. I guess anything else would have been too subtle.

I find that Airbnb listings that are located close to lots of nightlife options don't get abused as party houses quite as frequently as homes in quieter places. Those bars and nightclubs take a lot of the pressure off, and sometimes the guests are hardly ever home. But you do get the ones who wake up the neighbors coming back from the bars all loud and sloppy, try to put their keys in the wrong door, or vomit in a bad place, so it's not without drawbacks. Then again, families with kids often leave a more difficult mess than a gaggle of drunk twentysomethings, so there's only so much you can avoid with the targeting. I agree about having a solid set of rules, and I'd add that the quality of communication in the initial request is a better predictor of how the guests will behave than their age or gender. 

[Huma0]

@Anonymous 

Boobies? Really? Oh dear.

That's a good point that people are less likely to party at their accommodation when there is ample nightlife on offer nearby but, yes, things can still get messy when they come back drunk and disorderly. 

When I was 17, nearly 18, some friends and I rented a villa in a quiet village in Corfu. We spent the first night there drinking ouzo and really overdid it. There was vomit in the wrong place, but luckily not somewhere that caused any damage and was obviously cleaned up. There was another night we spent in the villa where two of the group had a disagreement and one of them started shouting and had practically be sat on by some of the other guys to keep hm under control. We were all nicely brought up kids, but unfortunately, the British tend to drink far too much on holiday.

Luckily, there was plenty of rowdy nightlife just a taxi drive away and that is where we spent the rest of our evenings (we were at the beach rather than villa during the day). Thank goodness for that. We clearly couldn't behave ourselves on the rare nights we stayed in.