Leaving a mess - etiquette

[Mikki0]

So Cal, USA

Asking fellow hosts - is there a level of cleanliness you expect from your guests upon check out? I have a plus property, with a full kitchen including a dishwasher. I charge no cleaning fee on my listing.

Some guests have used the kitchen, then left me with the dirty dishes/stove/countertops. I would think they they would at least LOAD the dishwasher if not run it.

When guests leave, is it acceptable for them to think "I paid for the accommodation, so someone else can clean my mess"?

For myself, even if I pay to stay somewhere, I treat the place respectfully. In hotels, I've my beds, piled my towels, even wiped down bathroom counters.

In the one airbnb I've stayed at, I washed the cup I used and left it on the drying rack, in case the host was more  anal about cleanliness.

[Suzanne302]

@Mikki0 

Your place is adorable! First of all, for a guest house I would absolutely charge a cleaning fee. (And as a guest I would expect a cleaning fee.)

Second, if you do not have explicit "check out" instructions, then you can't expect guests to automatically know they should load the dishwasher, or do the dishes, or anything else. You have many reviews so you must know by now that some guests will naturally tidy up when they leave and others think nothing of leaving trash on the counter, towels strewn about, etc.

Guests should be respectful and not leave your guest house in shambles, but they should not be expected to put the place back together exactly as it was when they leave.

[Mikki0]

@Suzanne302 I've been hosting for close to 7 years now and having a cleaning fee doesn't go with the type of stays I have. My clientele is mostly 1-2 nights stays and a cleaning fee just adds too much to the price. I also fee that people who are charged a cleaning fee leave a bigger mess. 

I do have some check out instructions, sometimes followed, sometimes ignored. 

My question wasn't about what I should do, but if should I be thinking differently about people who pay, stay and leave a mess. 

They might not know how to load a dishwasher, but they should be able to know how to wash them by hand. And even if they don't want to do that, at least scrape the plates clean and leave them in the sink. 

[Suzanne302]

@Mikki0 

Errrrrm, okay. Then yes, after 7 years of experience you should be thinking differently about people who pay, stay, and leave a mess.

It appears you expect a higher than average standard of cleanliness upon departure and you are expecting too much of guests. It would be petty to mention something as minor as "dirty dishes in the sink" in a review when other hosts deal with much worse.

[Mark116]

@Suzanne302  I don't really think leaving a sink full of dirty dishes is minor.  If we're talking about a glass/cup and a plate they used for toast, okay, fine, if we're talking about last nights dinner dishes, or dishes for a full breakfast for 4, then no. 

My rules say you are to wash your dishes, so if the dishes aren't washed then that is breaking the house rules that were agreed to and is also totally disrespecting me and the property.  

[Suzanne302]

@Mark116  I didn't say a sink full of dishes. I said a few dishes in the sink.

If you are crystal clear in your check out instructions, then yes, guests should not leave dirty dishes. For example, a place I used to rent each year left instructions to clean the fridge, the counters, and all dishes.

But you can't expect all guests to know what's in your head as far as cleaning expectations go if you don't spell it out. In that case, a few dirty dishes is no big deal to me. Some of my guests leave the place spotless. Others leave it "lived in." And a very small minority have left it in a condition I felt warranted mentioning in the review.

Thankfully I've become much more laid back as far as expectations than when I started. The first few months I was so uptight about every little thing, but I found I was much happier once I relaxed my expectations a bit.

[Linda108]

I don't charge a cleaning fee any longer because I have a minimum 2 night stay.  When I used to allow a single night, I used the cleaning fee to actually discourage people from doing so.

I am of the opinion since the review process includes cleanliness, that your review would reflect the less than tidy guest.  Obviously if the place is a shambles, that is a whole different level of review.  As my guests are in a shared home, I have a chance to evaluate if they clean up dishes or leave stuff around in the shared areas, but I have no requirement about the linens or bathroom as I prefer to take care of this myself.

[Mikki0]

@Linda108 It wasn't a shambles, and nothing I couldn't clean up, but after cleaning my house, to have to go out and do more than my normal cleaning just seemed so disrespectful. Especially when they sent me a check out note "Thanks for the hospitality". 

I guess I'm just curious about writing a review for a couple who didn't live up to the standards I was taught, but were still good guests. 

[Sarah977]

@Mikki0  There's those of us who wouldn't even feel okay about leaving a hotel room a mess, let alone someone else's home. But there are plenty of people who think if they paid to stay somewhere, the host is their personal maid. And some people just don't see the mess- they probably live like that at home, too. 

I had a lovely guest in my home share last year- a German girl in her late 20's. She was super sweet, a great communicator, smart, respectful and a lot of fun to hang out with. And she was into preparing herself big hearty meals with about 25 ingredients twice a day. She always cleaned up the shared kitchen after herself, washed every dish and utensil she'd used, but she was a really lax dishwasher- I'd find bits of food and grease stuck to almost everything she had washed (I don't have a dishwasher). I have friends like that, too- you have to rewash any cup you take out of their cupboard, because its sure to have an old dried coffee ring in it. There are people who simply aren't detail-oriented or particularly observant.

In the case of that guest, I chose not to say anything- I just rewashed whatever I found that wasn't clean. Because she was trying to be responsible, and she was just fine in every other way. She left her room and bathroom clean and tidy, she was just a crummy dishwasher.

If I had a stand-alone listing, I wouldn't be fussed if guests left a few breakfast dishes unwashed in the sink on check-out day, or didn't put all the bits of garbage in the bin, but if they left a huge pile of the previous night's dinner dishes and pots and pans covered in grease and congealing food, and the place was a general disaster, I'd definitely call them out on it in the review. But I'd try not to let it actually upset me,  rather consider it part and parcel of hosting. The messy guests balance out with the ones who leave it nice.

I know you said you weren't asking for advice on how to get them to clean up, but I do think it's important to leave a check-list of expectations-what we think is common courtesy may not occur to guests. Stating that "In order to keep our prices reasonable and not have to charge a cleaning fee, we ask that you...." could help.

[Fred13]

This is a funny one @Sarah977 . My guests stay a minimum of 4 days, and during that time they usually book also a reef or jungle tour with us and when we pick them up for one, the place is a royal mess, but when they finally leave it tends to be spotless once again, as if the upheaval never took place. So now when we pick them up for a tour during their stay we never set foot on the island, we wait in the boat.

[Sarah977]

@Fred13 The way my place is built, both my bedroom door and the guest bedroom door open off the balcony, accessed by outside staircase. I have to pass the guest room to get to my room (altho I seldom have reason to go up there during the day) and the guests are often laying in bed reading, or online, with the door open. I try to avert my eyes when walking past, so as to give them privacy. But sometimes they'll call out and want to chat, so I get to see how they are living in there. Most of them have everything neat and orderly (I don't know why I tend to get guests like that, I'm just glad I do) - they obviously don't like living in a mess, and as I only host solo guests, there's only so much mess they can create anyway. But with many I never see the space until they leave- I'm always kind of curious as to what I'll find. Most have left it really clean and tidy, some who I wouldn't have guessed would (single guys in their 20's) and only a couple of times have I encountered a mess.

When I was raising 3 kids, once they weren't little anymore, I never ragged on them about the state of their room- if it was awful, I just asked them to keep their door closed. I figured they deserved one space to call their own that didn't have to conform to my standards. I'd go in once in awhile to make sure there wasn't some food rotting under the bed, and once a year I'd go in there when they were away at camp or visiting their dad, haul everything out, clean it from top to bottom, fill some boxes with clothes I never saw them wear or things I never saw them using, replaced the rest and asked them to go through the boxes when they got back. I got pretty good at ignoring messes a long as I didn't have to live in them.

[Mikki0]

@Sarah977 

This is exactly my dilemma! I am that person who leaves a place as I found it - as much as I'm able. And my exact thought when I went in to clean today was "I bet these people live like this at home". 

[Sarah977]

@Mikki0  Yep, hosting or property managing is a real wake-up call as to the whole gamut of how other people live or what they consider clean. You don't necessarily realize it if you're a clean and tidy person and you tend to have friends and family who are the same. I've read lots of guest posts who complain about a cleaning fee, saying quite seriously, "I washed my dishes and took out the garbage-why am I being charged a cleaning fee? All the host had left to do was change the bedding. It's a total rip-off."

[Debra300]

@Mikki0, @Linda108, @Suzanne302, and @Sarah977,

For my the guesthouse where the guests have a shared kitchen, I explicitly tell them during check-in that they are responsible for cleaning up after themselves, and I will not do it.  It's no big deal if they have left a few dirty coffee mugs or glasses when they checkout.  Since the guestrooms each have hampers in the bathrooms, I never have to tell them where to put used towels.  I do tell them not to remove the sheets from the bed.  I want to see if the linen needs stain treatment.  One thing that does drive me bonkers is that I will find rings on the furniture sometimes right next to the coasters.

For the Atlanta apartment, I do send a guest a little checkout note, and ask them to put their trash in the garbage bin, put dishes in the dishwasher, leave used towels in the tub, and leave linens on the bed.  Most of them adhere to the request.  I also ask them to turn off the lights and AC/heater when they leave, but that's been hit or miss.

[Dimitar27]

I can give you two guidelines. First- start to charge for cleaning. And second-probably your price is too low and because of this, you don't have "guests", but people, who see your place just like a cheaper hotel alternative.