New Rule of 6 in England

[Sandra544]

Hello

can anybody help as Airbnb support haven’t come back to me promised .

the new Rule if 6 due to be introduced in England from Monday September 14th renders the vast majority of our upcoming bookings invalid as our properties sleep 15.

how do I best go about cancelling them so as to ensure the guest gets a full refund and I do not get penalised in the process as it would now be illegal for those bookings to go ahead.

i cancelled one today but Airbnb refused to unblock the dates on my calendar post cancellation so I don’t even have a chance of taking a new booking that meets the 6 person rule. 
thanks for any help 

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

No @Mike-And-Jane0  they won't win.

Let's celebrate the fact that Airbnb are adhering to their written Guest / Host contract and are applying their Covid-19 exclusions as they are so clearly stated:

"Guests cannot cancel bookings made after March 14th under the policy because of COVID,… ”

If any group of guests were travelling where it was dependent on the whole group being in attendance then they should have bought travel insurance to cover any possible risk as this risk was clearly pointed out in their booking contract. Their failure to have adequate insurance in place would have the Judge laugh them out of court.

Airbnb upheld their Guest / Host policy as was written.

This is the best news and best action to come out of Airbnb for UK and International hosts - ever.

Hopefully it will continue.

@Lawrene0 @Eileen0 @Joan23 @Robbie54 @Sarah977 @Mike-And-Helen0 @Robin4 @Susan17 @Louise0 @Donald28 @Katrina79 @Juan63 @Colleen253 @Ute42 @Helen3 @Andrew0 @Jennifer1421 @Helen350 @Jean-François73 @Yadira22 @Jessica-and-Henry0 @Melodie-And-John0 @Sandra126 @Trace386 @Brisas-Kukulcan0 @Ian-And-Anne-Marie0 @Alba160 @Gordon0 @Paul60 @Alex1425  @Joan23 @Sandra544 @Helen427 

@Super47 @Inna22 

[Helen3]

Sorry you are incorrect @Ian-And-Anne-Marie0  Airbnb is giving full refunds to guests who cannot travel post bookings made after 14 March. Has happened twice this week to me on guests based in Cardiff and Newport,

It was done under the standard Covid policy.

This has also happened to hosts in Wales I know because guests can no longer travel to them because of their lock down restrictions. 

As I’m sure you know most travel insurance is not covering Covid related cancellations 

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

@Helen3 

I am very much correct Helen.

Airbnb initially gave my guest a full refund. I reversed it after speaking to customer service, then a supervisor.  I had told the supervisor to not bother contacting me unless the decision was overturned. If it wasn't overturned I wanted verification from Catherine Powell in person as she had specifically cited the Covid exclusions on this forum and pointed to the exclusions. My cancellation was an attempted  'rule of 6' claim because the guest booked for 7.

Not only did Airbnb initially give them a full refund, they tried to allow the cancellation to happen stealthily and didn't even bother to tell me. I found out by checking my reservations and discovered this had happened.

The Terms and the Host/Guest contract does not allow full refunds for Covid. Period.

The post March 14th EC policy clearly states..

... COVID-19-related circumstances not covered include:

transport disruptions and cancellations;

**** travel advisories and restrictions; *****

health advisories and quarantines;

changes to applicable law;

and other government mandates such as -

    evacuation orders,

    border closures,

    prohibitions on short-term rentals,

   and lockdown requirements.

The host’s cancellation policy will apply as usual.

For you Helen - travel restrictions are excluded from being provided a full refund. You are due your cancellation fees. Hosts cancellation fees stand.

If you have had cancellations and no cancellation fee payment, then you have been duped.

Clearly, you need to stand up for your rights and insist that the new contract is upheld in your favour.

NB: Travel insurance covers unknown risks at the time of booking. All insurance is not created equally, so it would be imperative not to purchase that 'most' but instead to purchase one which caters for your travel needs. Travel insurance would be the travellers full responsibility.

[Mike-And-Jane0]

@Ian-And-Anne-Marie0 How about you DM me with the name of the guest and I'll see if they can be persuaded to raise a legal (small claims) case against Airbnb. That way the law can be clarified.

By the way the @Helen3  situation is more clear cut in law as the guests cannot legally travel. The rule of 6 will be down to the extent people can demonstrate that more than 6 is fundamental to their trip.

I suspect I won't be getting any names!

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

@Mike-And-Jane0 

I've heard some stupid suggestions.... All Airbnb are doing is upholding their Guest /Host contract and their Covid exclusions due to a known  risk.

In Helen's case - why don't you read the Airbnb exclusions to Covid cancellations and full refunds.. this bit..  COVID-19-related circumstances not covered for refunds include **** travel advisories and restrictions; ***** IS FULLY APPLICABLE.

It is not Helen's fault the guests can't travel. That's why the guests should have bought travel insurance.

AND SO TOO IS THIS::

and other government mandates such as -

lockdown requirements.

NOT -  VALID - COVID - CANCELLATION

[Mike-And-Jane0]

I suspected that you wouldn't want to clarify the law. The law of course takes precedence over the Airbnb terms.

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

@Mike-And-Jane0 

My guests were annoyed because they decided to book their holiday without taking out travel insurance. At the time they booked, travel insurance was available to cover the 'rule of 6' law change because it was not a known issue. Airbnb terms and Guest / Host contract defines 'Law Change' as an exclusion to providing a full refund.

In light of the fact that the guests could have mitigated their losses but chose not to is a risk the hosts should not contractually be responsible for. And are not.

Suffice it to say that the guests never pursued a change in numbers or a change in booking dates. Instead, they attempted to cancel based on your 'frustrated contract'' theory and the decision to refund the guests was overturned and the hosts cancellation policy was adhered to.

[Helen3]

I wouldn’t dream of making guests who cannot travel  because of government related Covid  travel restrictions pay cancellation fees - to me that would be immoral @Ian-And-Anne-Marie0 

The reality is that Airbnb are using the standard EC policy to cover this. You can argue all you like - but this is the reality that those of us this has happened to have experienced. And travel insurance excludes pandemics. 

I know of at least five other hosts in England and Wales where Airbnb are rightly refunding guests because travel to their area is  not allowed or the guest is not allowed travel out of their area.

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

@Helen3 

I've been in business for over 40 years. I have had to deal with contracts which have fallen in my favour and contracts which have not. There is no moral judgement here, it is just a case of upholding the contract in place with the specific clauses in effect. This is what has been done.

If ever you write that you put specific clauses in your house rules to avert guest behaviour or you complain that guests are not adhering to yours or Airbnb Terms or Contractual issues, and you complain, I will call you a hypocrite. Given time, I will check your house rules. Do you write those with the intention they are adhered to or can be simply ignored?

When you go shopping and it looks like it might rain, you will sensibly take an umbrella. You could see a potential hazard. If you decide not to take an umbrella and you get soaked then the only person for blame here would be yourself. This is exactly the same scenario with Guest cancellations and guests failing to provide their own cover for possible circumstances which have been specifically written into a contract, these  highlighting the specific exclusions and so highlighting the specific risk involved.

The exclusions in the Terms and Contract and 'standard EC policy' - you dispute -  is EXACTLY AS I STATE.

Here is the Extenuating Circumstances page:

https://www.airbnb.co.uk/help/article/2701/extenuating-circumstances-policy-and-the-coronavirus-covi...

And here is the specific paragraph detailing the exclusions:

Reservations made after 14 March 2020

Reservations for stays and Airbnb Experiences made after 14 March 2020 will not be covered under our extenuating circumstances policy,. <exclusions listed>..... The host’s cancellation policy will apply as usual.

You can read it all yourself, in simple, plain English.

[Mike-And-Jane0]

And yet even though you are so confident you won't let me contact the guest and explain the rights they might be able to claim.

[Super47]

@Mike-And-Jane0

Am I actually reading this right..?? Surely, I can't be. You're hounding @Ian-And-Anne-Marie0 to give you the name of their guest, so you can... what, exactly?? Hunt down every last John or Mary Smith in the UK until you find the right one, then pester, coerce or and/or hassle them into taking legal action, just so you can prove a point? (An untested, unclarified and wholly nebulous point, at that)

How utterly bonkers! There are laws against that sort of thing, you know - privacy/GDPR, stalking and harassment laws, for example. For someone who purports to know so much about the law (well one old-as-Croesus law, anyway), you do seem to be perfectly willing to completely overstep the boundaries when it suits your own purposes.

If I breezed into a casino, sashayed over to the roulette table, stuck a thousand on red, and the ball then dropped into 17 black - my grand would be gone. Finito. And no matter how much of a tantrum I threw, or how loud I screamed that it just wasn't fair, nobody would be refunding me a penny. And rightly so.

And there's no difference - no difference whatsoever - in guests who chose to take a punt on booking a trip after the pandemic was already a known event. They made a conscious decision to take that risk, in the full and frank knowledge that the odds of an unfavourable outcome were pretty d*mn high. So under no circumstances is it now right, just or fair that hosts who have already suffered devastating reductions in their income over the last 7/8 months, should now also be forced to swallow the consequences for the reckless gambles of their guests.

If the guests had wanted to insure against their losses - as opposed to expecting complete strangers to pick up the tab for them - there were plenty of hosts offering flexible cancellation policies (and being rightly rewarded for that with higher promotion the search rankings too).So to vilify, demonise and deprecate hosts now for simply adhering to the terms of their strict cancellation policies - as per the contract the guest entered into at time of booking - is nothing short of obnoxious.

It has to be said - you do appear to be on some sort of a mad crusade to ensure that every other host in the UK ends up bankrupt. All the more business for you, I guess. Once again, so much for "community" and solidarity with your fellow hosts. 

[Mike-And-Jane0]

@Super47 Absolute rubbish. All I am doing is trying to uphold the rule of law. Its quite important believe it or not.

[Super47]

@Mike-And-Jane0

"Uphold the rule of law*.. until it comes to violating someone else's privacy rights, you mean..? 

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

@Mike-And-Jane0 

Where were you 'upholding the rule of law' when Airbnb illegally changed the wording of their Terms and Extenuating Circumstances to accommodate sweeping changes in their refund policy against all hosts' cancellation settings?

Nowhere.

That would have been quite important, believe it or not...

[Mike-And-Jane0]

Oh no I was there.However it was not clear to me in law if changing a policy referenced in a contract (the Ts and Cs) is a change to the contract. Somewhere in my memory says it isn't.