Personal belongings misappropriated or disposed by the host

Denys33
Level 2
London, United Kingdom

Personal belongings misappropriated or disposed by the host

Dear community,

 

Over the past couple of months I have been pleading with Airbnb to help solve a problem that arose due to my sudden departure from China in early Feb because of Coronavirus outbreak. In a nutshell - I left airbnb property in China without checking out and still left some valuables there as I was planning to return in a few weeks later once the outbreak settled down. Later, when I was in Thailand, once I realised the epidemic will last a long time, I tried to work out a solution with airbnb and the host on how to temporary freeze or cancel and later restart my booking in order to avoid paying for the property I wasn't using. Eventually airbnb went ahead and cancelled the booking in accordance to their new exceptional cancelation policy, but did so without consulting the host first (even though in all message threads they promised to do so multiple times + me wanting to exercise cancelation option was conditional on them consulting the host first and the host agreeing to this as I still had the keys to the property and my personal belongings were there). This (un-consulted cancelation) infuriated the host (though I have informed her from the start I am discussing this option with airbnb and she should expect to hear from them soon) and from that point on she refused to communicate with me and refused to allow me (or my friend in China) to collect my belongings (worth 3.3K GBP) when they were still at the property. Main reason  the host refused to allow me to collect my belongings was that she kept them hostage while trying to extort extra money for the loss of rent that the cancellation caused as well as emotional / inconvenience impact. I have refused to pay what I felt were unreasonable charges and suggested the host to have a discussion with airbnb first. Some time passed (during which I kept pleading with the host to allow me to collect my belongings). Later airbnb came back agreeing with me that extra charges the host was trying levy were not justified, BUT saying the host already “disposed” of my belongings and they cannot do anything about this. I am not a legal expert nor can I claim to understand all policies that govern host/tenant/airbnb relationship, but from purely ethical and common sense stand point my conclusion is a) airbnb’s failure to consult the host and do what is right for all parties caused this conflict in the first place b) the host acted unethically when out vengeance or for profit or both decided to either destroy or misappropriate and sell my personal belongings. I tried to seek compensation from airbnb as well as getting them to take action against the host, but never received any sort of comprehensive reply that addressed my grievance. Please help.

 

Thank you

34 Replies 34
Denys33
Level 2
London, United Kingdom

@Ute42 

 

Yes, deep down this is also what I have been thinking the outcome of all this is going to be.

 

I am considering writing to the host and asking her to at least donate proportion of the proceeds from the sale of my digital equipment to a charity as this would definitely help me come to terms with this outcome.

 

Thank you

Mark116
Level 10
Jersey City, NJ

@Denys33  You left almost $4K worth of stuff in China, left the country, didn't bother to cancel the reservation before you left, took the keys, and you are somehow surprised that your stuff is now 'gone'?  I don't get it. Why, assuming your valuation is correct, would you leave expensive equipment in a foreign country?

But, I agree w/ @Ute42  that you can I suppose take it up with the Chinese lawyers, LOL.

 

As to your question,  you can keep trying w/airbnb, but I doubt very much they will reimburse you for property you left in a foreign country and it is very unlikely you can force the host to pay.

@Mark116 The problem is not about which country it is whether it's foreign or domestic, nor the value of the stuff, but whether it's legal/legit that he left stuff in the room without communicating with the host for all the arrangements. I have storage lockers I offer guests to use any time but if a guest left his stuff in the room I would certainly consider trash it if the guest didn't tell me anything about it. I understand that OP has talked to the host, but if you are intended to cancel the reservation then why are you leaving your stuff in the property? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Denys33
Level 2
London, United Kingdom

@Nanxing0 

 

RE: “ but if you are intended to cancel the reservation then why are you leaving your stuff in the property? That doesn't make any sense to me.:”

 

Please see

 

https://community.withairbnb.com/t5/Help/Personal-belongings-misappropriated-or-disposed-by-the-host...

 

Thank you

@Denys33 I think I understanded it right. You asked Airbnb to cancel/pause your reservation while you still have stuff in the room and holding the key of the property that doesn't sound right to me as well. I understand it sounds a very small favor and might be something people in Europe or US would like to help you accommodate, but nobody is obligated to do so. 

 

Also there's a cultural difference that might played a role here. It might sound to you as a very small favor to keep a luggage case for your convenience, but in China this sounds quite suspicious, given your overall activities: leave a suitcase and travelled out of the country and cancel/paused your bookings, some people in China might suspect you have something illegal in the suitcase, if they learned that your suitcase is so valuable. In this sense it can explain why the host doesn't want to cooperate with you any more since they don't want to get themselves into trouble, possibly. 

 

My suggestion is that if you have any other friend/business partners in China, tell them about the situation and ask them to help you talk to the host. There might be some miscommunication if you don't speak fluent Chinese. Also offer the host to pay something to get it back. I feel there might be a chance they took possession of it due to the value, although not very likely.

Denys33
Level 2
London, United Kingdom

@Mark116 

 

RE “You left almost $4K worth of stuff in China, left the country, didn't bother to cancel the reservation before you left, took the keys, and you are somehow surprised that your stuff is now 'gone'?  I don't get it. Why, assuming your valuation is correct, would you leave expensive equipment in a foreign country?”

 

Please see my answer here https://community.withairbnb.com/t5/Help/Personal-belongings-misappropriated-or-disposed-by-the-host...

 

RE “As to your question,  you can keep trying w/airbnb, but I doubt very much they will reimburse you for property you left in a foreign country and it is very unlikely you can force the host to pay.”

 

You could very well be right, but I don’t want to give up without at least trying.

 

Thank you

Kelly149
Level 10
Austin, TX

@Denys33  As others have already pointed out, you made quite a few mistakes with your host. Unfortunately they all boil down to the newbie mistake of taking ABB for a reasonable, sensible, thinking creature. As you know now this is not the case. Good luck moving forward; if I were you I’d focus my efforts on health, wellness and internet shopping for replacement belongings. 

Denys33
Level 2
London, United Kingdom

Nanxing0
Level 10
Haverford, PA

First of all, if you are storing your stuff in the property, then you are officially "using " the property. It doesn't matter whether you are physically there or not, but it's a service provided to you with the property to store your stuff. So in that sense, you need to make a formal agreement with the host. Usually hosts would charge you something, maybe with a discounted rate, so you can use it legally as storage. Simply holding the key doesn't grant you the right to use the host's property as storage.

 

From legal perspect of view, if your reservation is cancelled and you don't have a current reservation with the host, then you don't have any right to use the host's property for any purpose including storage. In that case you will need to make a formal agreement with the host to use it as storage, rather than simply holding the key in your hand. As a matter of fact holding the key of other people's property is illegal anywhere in this world without proper consent. 

 

Here's another example. We run small units in central city Philadelphia and most of time we have same day turnover so we need to clear out ANYTHING the previous guest left over. Most of time it's small stuffs like clothes, phone charger, watch, etc. We usually keep the stuff for a couple days and/or ask the guest for intention, but if the item is too big and the guest doesn't respond we would of course trash them. When there's guest's stuff in the room, we certainly cannot rent the unit to anyone else.

Denys33
Level 2
London, United Kingdom

@Nanxing0 

 

“First of all, if you are storing your stuff in the property, then you are officially "using " the property. It doesn't matter whether you are physically there or not, but it's a service provided to you with the property to store your stuff. So in that sense, you need to make a formal agreement with the host. Usually hosts would charge you something, maybe with a discounted rate, so you can use it legally as storage. Simply holding the key doesn't grant you the right to use the host's property as storage.”

 

Agree with the above. The complication with my booking was that airbnb backdated my cancelation to the time when I first mentioned booking suspension / cancellation to them. As it took airbnb something like 3 weeks to cancel the booking, when the host tried to charge me for this period full daily rate, to me it sounded unreasonable (and I suggested amount close to that of commercial storage fee) and that’s why I wanted airbnb to arbitrate as they were the ones who in full awareness of me still having my belongings and keys to the property went ahead and cancelled the reservation.

 

“From legal perspect of view, if your reservation is cancelled and you don't have a current reservation with the host, then you don't have any right to use the host's property for any purpose including storage. In that case you will need to make a formal agreement with the host to use it as storage, rather than simply holding the key in your hand. As a matter of fact holding the key of other people's property is illegal anywhere in this world without proper consent.”

 

Agree. Immediately following the cancellation I was trying to communicate with the host to arrange a friend to remove my belongings from the property ASAP, but by then the host refused to communicate with me.

 

“Here's another example. We run small units in central city Philadelphia and most of time we have same day turnover so we need to clear out ANYTHING the previous guest left over. Most of time it's small stuffs like clothes, phone charger, watch, etc. We usually keep the stuff for a couple days and/or ask the guest for intention, but if the item is too big and the guest doesn't respond we would of course trash them. When there's guest's stuff in the room, we certainly cannot rent the unit to anyone else.”

 

Sounds like you are a seasoned, reasonable and professional host, unfortunately for me I was my host’s first airbnb tenant… throw in a few of her personal and cultural idiosyncrasies and here we are.

@Denys33 

No need for the racist comments - there is nothing "cultural" about the host's reaction to your bad decisions. 

 

Your host is the one that lost a huge chunk of income rightfully owed to her but ended up with unwanted camera equipment....... that you want her to sell and donate the proceeds to charity?!?!?!? and this is going to help YOU come to terms?!?!?!?!  What?!?!?!?

@Jessica-and-Henry0 

 

Thank you for your comment.

 

RE: “No need for the racist comments - there is nothing "cultural" about the host's reaction to your bad decisions. “

 

Language, culture and personal attitude always have a role to play in effective communication and conflict resolution. If someone point blank refuses to communicate with you and airbnb (airbnb did mention host refusing to communicate with them too) to raise and calmly and rationally address ones grievances, whatever underlies that behaviour - it is far from my idea of basic values that we all should be sharing.

 

RE: "Your host is the one that lost a huge chunk of income rightfully owed to her but ended up with unwanted camera equipment....... that you want her to sell and donate the proceeds to charity?!?!?!? and this is going to help YOU come to terms?!?!?!?!  What?!?!?!?"

 

I believe I already addressed my position regarding “rightfully” in my earlier reply to you in

https://community.withairbnb.com/t5/Help/Personal-belongings-misappropriated-or-disposed-by-the-host...

 

Even if we put the fairness of backdated cancelation aside income loss to the host was 3-4 times less than the value of the equipment she is now in possession that shouldn’t be that hard to sell.

@Denys33  Well it's not "throw in". If this happened in UK then you can call that a "throw in" but if you are visiting China then you need to respect to and get familiar with the local culture. As I mentioned in the other comment, the host might be simply viewing your behavior as an alert to him/her so that's why I suggest you to ask your Chinese friend to talk to the host directly. In China a lot of criminals are conducted in this way that one person gives someone a case and ask another person to pick up so if I was the host it would ring alarm to me as well. If there's anything illegal in your case then the host will also be charged due to the handling. 

 

I have a hell lot of guests need storage of luggage as well and I do see guests with similar need like you did. My solution is to provide lockers to the guests for storage of luggage, but I never allow guests to store luggage in the room after check out even if he's returning the next day. It's too complicated for me to manage and the liability is also a problem. It might seem to you that during the pandemic the host shouldn't have any guest living in the property, but nobody can guarantee it. 

Denys33
Level 2
London, United Kingdom

@Nanxing0 

 

Thank you for the previous two posts.

 

You might as well be right as I can’t claim to understand the hosts motives. To me… considering a) I already stayed 4 months at the property b) left due to urgent COVID situation c) there was a payment disagreement that Airbnb was arbitrating … all this is indicative of some other reason rather than suspicious criminal activity (I could be wrong).

 

In terms of your suggestion - the host is only accessible via WeChat and Email. After the host refused to communicate with me I was initially asking airbnb to mediate, but later the host stopped communicating with them too. I would love if someone could help me to talk to the host, but don’t know how to share her contact details as she threatened legal action if I share any of her personal particulars. Is there anything you can do to help? Thank you

@Denys33 Actually it's not even a cultural thing but something happened before so most Chinese people are cautious when something similar happens. The incident happened before was that drug dealers use this method to transfer illegal drugs and when it was discovered by law enforcement, those who handled the luggage were also charged and sentenced due to handling of illegal drug, even they didn't know there was illegal drug in the luggage. This made all of us not willing to touch any luggage that we are not sure about, and if you are not picking up by yourself. Stayed 4 months is not related to it. Criminals use all methods to hide their true intention.

 

Another example is that right now in China if you see a senior fell off don't help him/her unless you have enough witness around to prove your innocence otherwise you might get in trouble. Just something happened.

 

I'm not sure why the host stopped communicating with Airbnb. Did he/she stop the listing on Airbnb? If you have the host's WeChat you can ask your friend to chat with the host using your WeChat with you, if that's possible. If the host doesn't want his/her contact be shared then I would not give the contact to anybody else. That'll only piss him/her off further.