Free infants, up to 5 free infants? In a listing that is set to a total of 4 guests?!!!!! OUTRAGEOUS

[DragonflyHill-Collective0]

This is really messed up. Now when hosts indicate that our listing is suitable for up to X guests, it's really X guests + 5 free children under 2 years old, and there's no way to adjust for this. This is outrageous. 1. We should have a say in who comes in our homes for free, 2. We should determine the total number of guests. 3. FIVE FREE INFANTS? REALLY? FIVE? THAT'S A WHOLE PRESCHOOL CLASS. EVEN PRESCHOOL CLASSES HAVE A COST AND THOSE KIDS GO HOME AT THE END OF THE DAY.

WE want our home to be comfortable for children and welcoming, but when we said we could only accommodate up to 4 people, that didn't mean up to 9 people if 5 of them were under 2 years old. It didn't mean free lodging for ANYONE.

You could allow hosts to offer free passage to children, in a discount setting. You could allow guests to search for "chlldren are free" or "infants are free" in a search feature.

You absolutely have to allow hosts to determine how many people they can comfortably, affordably and safely lodge.

We've added the following statement to our listing:

"While we are children friendly, we cannot provide free accommodations for children OF ANY AGE.  We welcome your children into our home but all fees and total number of guest limits apply.  We love and welcome children but at the prices we are offering, we cannot afford to have extra people of any age here, without compensation for our labor and resources. "

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Response from Airbnb

The decision not to count infants toward the number of guests was based on hospitality industry standards. The goal for this policy is to support a positive guest experience, specifically for families booking on Airbnb. Although the majority of hosts are comfortable with this policy, some aren’t, and we are interested in figuring out how this tool can be improved to work better for more hosts.

If you don’t want to accept bookings from families traveling with infants, or want to include them as part of the total guest count, there are a few controls you can currently take advantage of:

1. Clearly indicate in your house rules whether your place is suitable for infants. If you must charge for infants, note that guests are to include infants in the adult guest count rather than in the infant guest count. Remember, avoiding discrimination based on factors like familial status is part of the Airbnb commitment you signed. Hosts should welcome families unless a place is clearly not suitable for infants and children, something often best left up to the family to decide.
2. If you’re using the request-to-book option instead of Instant Book, then you can discuss with potential guests whether you’re able to accommodate them.
3. You can indicate in your settings that your place is not suitable for infants. If you have instant book turned on, guests who indicate they’re traveling with infants will not be able to book your home instantly. They can still request to book your space, just as they would any non-Instant Book listing.
4. If you’re using Instant Book, then you can always cancel a booking penalty-free if a guest breaks your house rules.

[DragonflyHill-Collective0]

This is really messed up. Now when hosts indicate that our listing is suitable for up to X guests, it's really X guests + 5 free children under 2 years old, and there's no way to adjust for this. This is outrageous. 1. We should have a say in who comes in our homes for free, 2. We should determine the total number of guests. 3. FIVE FREE INFANTS? REALLY? FIVE? THAT'S A WHOLE PRESCHOOL CLASS. EVEN PRESCHOOL CLASSES HAVE A COST AND THOSE KIDS GO HOME AT THE END OF THE DAY.

WE want our home to be comfortable for children and welcoming, but when we said we could only accommodate up to 4 people, that didn't mean up to 9 people if 5 of them were under 2 years old. It didn't mean free lodging for ANYONE.

You could allow hosts to offer free passage to children, in a discount setting. You could allow guests to search for "chlldren are free" or "infants are free" in a search feature.

You absolutely have to allow hosts to determine how many people they can comfortably, affordably and safely lodge.

We've added the following statement to our listing:

"While we are children friendly, we cannot provide free accommodations for children OF ANY AGE.  We welcome your children into our home but all fees and total number of guest limits apply.  We love and welcome children but at the prices we are offering, we cannot afford to have extra people of any age here, without compensation for our labor and resources. "

[Cathy65]

Brava, Louise!  You have perfectly analyzed the reality of this situation.

Forcing ABB host sto conform to perceived "hospitality standards" is the cockeyed product of 20-something corporate bureaucrats who have no real sense of who we are and what we do. We are not freaking Booking.com.  We are not the Holiday Inn. We are mostly little old ladies and gents trying to survive in a brutal economy, by taking strangers into our homes.  

It is challenging at best.  A minority of guests appreciate the efforts we put out to make them comfortable in our homes.  I would say a slight majority regard us as hotel employees and treat us like dirt. I often spend endless hours detailing the house for guests' arrival, only to have some bitchy over-privilged lady play gotcha and complain because she found some crumbs under the large, heavy toaster oven.

Anyway, the last thing we need is another built-in point of friction with guests.  It is completely inappropriate to force hosts to take babies and toddlers for free. And it just creates an ugly issue where there should be none.

BTW, it is particularly galling to be told by the above ABB flunky that "the majority of hosts are comfortable with this policy," when clearly we are predominantly outraged if this policy affects us. 

[Dawn50]

Yay Cathy and Louise. 

[Gina32]

I disagree. It is not hospitality industry standards.

I have been in this industry for 24 years and it is not standard in Australia at all.

So for your site I have chosen "not suitable for infants" because I can't be bothered having an argument about the charging for infants.

And to think that a two bedroom apartment which can have 6 adults could possibly fit in 7 infants in porta cots is ridiculous.

You need to re - assess this policy you have created.

[Alice-and-Jeff0]

Someone needs to clarify what this response says - that infants can be counted in the head count - and the policy as it is listed in the Help Center.

Here the representative says that you can request that infants be counted in the head count [ ... If you must charge for infants, note that guests are to include infants in the adult guest count rather than in the infant guest count. ...] but the policy clearly states that they cannot be [...Infants (children under 2 years old) aren't counted as guests when you're booking a reservation and don't incur any extra costs.]

Looks like the problem is the definition of "infants"  (0-2) and "children" (2-12) and how are they to be handled.  

Either we can charge for infants or we can't, which is it?  

[Jessica-and-Henry0]

I would like to see real and actual proof of "hospitality standards" that Airbnb is *claiming* to base their decision to allow up to 5 infants for free, and evidence supporting their decision NOT to count infants into the total person count. (Isn't this ILLEGAL?!?!?!?!?)  

I don't think I've EVER seen a hotel or resort that allows up to 5 FREE INFANTS per adult or couple that has a reservation for 1 room.

[Alastair3]

I found this thread, unaware of this new policy, and looking for advise on how people deal with people showing up at the door with un-declared infants (even if the listing is marked unsuitable for....)

That said,  just reflecting on Airbnb's response.

1) Industry standards - Airbnb is widely quoted as a textbook industry "disruptor"... Uber and youtube are other examples of this. What this means is that they are game changers, and get successful by ripping up the industry standards and replacing them with something that seems to respond or work better today!  So while that doesn't imply that Airbnb needs to rip every rule, it seems a little lame to now hold "the standards" up as a justification for policy making!

2) Airbnb is now recognised the worlds biggest accomodation provider, and perhaps with the exception of corporate offices, owns NO property. This is an important distinguishing feature "in the industry"... when a Hotel chain makes a decision to offer 3x2 or free wifi, they bear the cost of that in their own properties, and have made the appropriate business driven calculations and even franchised properties would have something to say about it.  Point is I think those who DO own the property should get a voice.

3) Fair enough, airbnb owns the platform, and continues to develop it, but until now, pricing is something entirely left up to the host. We are given recommendations but it's Our choice. After all,  it's our business in more than one sense of the word.

In summary, I think this policy crosses over the line at which a host gets to decide on what terms he wishes to (or even legally can) share his property.  

I too would ask that Airbnb need to re - assess this policy it has created.

[Naomi8]

When I started as a host I accepted dogs, babies, toddlers and even a check in at 6am. I learnt the hard way that it is not worth the anguish, destruction and ingratitude which were my rewards for extending myself.

Most of the visiting dogs put mud everywhere and barked at every little thing. Stinking dog food cans and old bones were tossed thoughtlessly into the wheelie bin unwrapped, to acrue a swarm of dripping maggots. The babies left faeces filled nappies galore, and as I have no rubbish collection, I had to carry the reeking rubbish in the boot of my car for disposal. One guest clamped a portable high chair to the dining table and the weight of the child snapped off half the table top.

Toddlers take first prize for abominations. I have expanses of glass which were thoroughly covered with greasy fingerprints. One kid pulled everything out of every cupboard, including attic spaces. In an attempt to clean up, the stuff was hastily flung hither and thither by the parents into mad places. Riding bikes inside, leaping onto furniture, smashing gates open and shut, swinging manically on the hammock swing on the veranda, gouging a deep groove in the polished wood floor by swinging on the back edge of dining room chair, were but a few of the trials children have inflicted on my poor house! Spilt food, collections of flotsam from the beach and garden, screaming, yelling, fighting and intrusions into my personal area are pretty much standard.

Contrary to all the effusive praise about how enriched hosts feel to meet their guests; the truth is that most of my guests have left me disappointed, jaded and sometimes baffled. I do it for the money and nothing else. Sometimes great guests come along and changs my view but it is not often. 

[Gina32]

Finally, a real live host ready to voice the thoughts of many.

I have made my property not suitable for infants, until we can charge for them properly.

Yes sometimes nice people do turn up, I think I have worked out the cheaper you are the worst the guests can be. But then just sometimes this is reversed. It's a weird psycology, this business.

[Lucy-and-Loic0]

I just want to signal that people with infants can still freely book places that are marked "Not safe or suitable for infants" by property owners.  I know this because I had an instant book of a couple with an infant. Our property is clearly marked no baby bed, no high chair, no changing table, no plug protectors, unsafe and unsuitable in house rules, etc. but they still were able to book.  The dirty work of following through and convincing someone who wants to stay in our property to cancel their booking because our property is not furnished for infants and toddlers is still ours, I'm afraid.  😞  

[Anne355]

hello, 

in case anyone from Airbnb reads this (which I doubt), the problem raised in the question is not having one infant (question that is addressed by the Airbnb answer).

But five infants !

E.g. my house is infant-proof, however I only have baby stuff for one baby. Because I had my kids one by one, as most prople do. 

Usually, houses are built for families, which tend to be quite different from nurseries. 

I imagine that uite a number of hosts have no problem with hosting one infant, the problem lies with having up to five of them. 

This is not a problem if instant booking is off. But problems arise when instant booking is on ...

[ChuckandCarole0]

I think the issue can be sidestepped by having in your house rules that everyone needs to be paid for, even infants. That way, if someone is breaking the house rule when they Instant Book, you may be able to cancel with no penalty, or communicate with the prospective guest that there will also be a charge for any infants, as you state in your house rules. Then they have the option to cancel, or pay you more. 

[Kathryn-and-Paul0]

I dont mind having infants as guests however they do add to my costs. I am happy to have them here but I am fast deciding to make my listing adults only. I do not believe infants should be free.

[Gina32]

When I search for my property  and put a little data in this is what shows up

"7 guests maximum. Infants don’t count toward the number of guests."

This is not true....I said my property was not suitable for infants.

And just for good measure in my house rules I said this:

Infants are extra people and you will need to include them in your number of guests. Infants do not stay for free at this property. If you do not include them in your child count there will be an extra fee collected for infants on arrival of $5 per night.

When is ABnB going to listen to the hosts?

[Raquel24]

Infants over one year, or that have started crawling should be charged like any other guest.  I find that infants that have started to crawl are even more messier than adults.  Sticky fingerprints and bits of food are everywhere.  At the very minimum, please change the rules to free if under a year old.  

[Andrea1063]

OMGoodness ... since when do guests read the entire description.  IF they did then there would likely be far fewer reviews less than 5.  Most of not all my review that were less than 5 were about things VERY clearly in the listing description. 

I even use a point forms becaue I know that people are hooked on 140 characters - now up to 240 LoL.   

These types of things need to be part of the booking system and not assume that guests actually take responsibility for reading or even complying. 

I also agree that there are legal ramifications to having infants and toddlers in your home.  IF you are happy to accept families with small children then there is a lot you have to do to make your home safe for them.  

Legal liablity is a very real concern with small children in a home that is not child-proof.