Guests admit breaking my House Rules but won't leave. Airbnb are faffing and not enforcing them

[Yan49]

I've been hosting for several years on different platforms and have a couple of hundred reviews under my belt on ABB alone. My top listing is a premium property in the heart of London and because of the nature of the home, strict regulations and neighbour considerations I have set very clear House Rules which every guest needs to confirm they have read and understood in order to have their booking confirmed, by way of mentioning a "hidden" keyword I place at the very end of my House Rules section. One such rule is that should my home be overoccupied or used for a party, the guests will immediately be ejected without a right to a refund for the unspent nights.

I've not had any major problems so far, but although confirming they were on board with them, my (unfortunately, still current) guests broke that rule and another saying kids must be cleared by me first. They admitted by airbnb message to having 7 occupants vs the 6 max allowed, 3 of whom children, who are neither quiet nor well behaved. I immediately called Airbnb to notify them of this and they've been faffing for the last 24h. They did confirm the guests had broken my House Rules and I was within my right to cancel and keep the entire payout, but at the same time asked if I would make an exception and offer them a partial efund, which both me and my co-host declined to do.

Before going to bed, I once again emailed the case manager with a 2-point summary: 

1) terminate reservation immediately and remove guests

2) no refund of any kind

This morning I received a message from the lead guest stating some of the members had left and checked into a hotel and thay could provide me proof of booking, and if I would allow them to stay on. This was followed shortly after by an email from the case manager, stating the same and asking if in the view of the change of circumstances, I would allow the rest of them to stay.

It seems Airbnb are set of "fixing" this, whereas as far as I'm concerned, my House Rules are clear: break them are you're out.

Case gets passed on.

Second case manager - Randolph: "Right now, xxxx is not eligible for any refund, but I am reaching out to see if you would be willing to refund any amount to your guest. You do not have to, as this payout does belong to you, but any help would be greatly appreciated". I declined and expressed my will to have them removed with no refund.

Case Manager #3 - Megan: "I understand that you do not wish to have xxxx in your listing any longer due to the violation of the house rules. Generally, when a guest breaks a house rule, we do like to allow them a second chance to follow the house rules and save the reservation. The same respect as if a guest reports a travel issue, we ask that the host is given a chance to resolve this problem for them. Or if we can in situations like this, we attempt to alter the reservation for an early check-out and a refund for nights not spent in the listing. However, with your denial of any refund this is not an option. 

It seems like they're not getting the memo...

Case Manager #4 - Rose (seriously, I've never been able to get a new case manager assigned to a case before even when there was a claim for damages and the assigned case manager was off sick for 2 weeks they wouldn't re-assign it and it took 6 weeks): "It seems as though they have checked in the 4 guests into a hotel room and will be continuing the reservation as is. The guest has mentioned tha they will send in documenation showing the other guests checking in to the hotel for the remainder of the reservation". 

Holy crap, they really aren't getting the memo.

"and will be continuing the reservation as is."??  No they bloody well won't cause I'm calling the cops. The payout has already been issued and I'm booked out solid for nearly the next 2 months. I genuinely  hope they won't change their mind on their initial decision as they're notorious for doing and corner me into cancelling all future reservations and re-routing them directly through my website and completely switch to HA, Expedia and Booking. This is quite a large reservation and mine and others' experience is that they're more willing to "bend the rules" when large sums are involved. 

Airbnb, you don't own any property stock. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

I'll be updating this in real-time as more info comes in.

[Yan49]

The site seems to resize it to an unreadable pixelated mess, so I've uploaded the conversation history with the case managers involved. Here's the link, you need to download it to magnify it enough. And a cup of tea: https:www.box.com/s/6jjc0t7behob0ppqtl900g9s0alct13g

I've been compiling the file for Arbitration today and should have it ready to submit by tomorrow, I'll post that too as a template along with the procedure on how to file, should anyone want to follow suit. It's a lot less trouble than I thought - and Airbnb kindly picks up the bill for it!

[Nicole794]

i d like to know how

[Yan49]

Give the ADR a call and they'll even guide you through how to file your claim there and then. They were super helpful when I spoke to them.

[Yan49]

Fri, 13 July 2018 UPDATE

I called the AAA/ADR (they're the same thing). Left a voicemail explainig the purpose of my call (to initiate arbitration against Airbnb), my name and mobile number and stating there's an awkward time difference between us, and my time zone. Wouldn't you know it, within 12h I get A CALL (yes, I couldn't believe it either) by a very polite lady who gave me the low-down on how to proceed. To make it easier for me she even offered me to just send an email listing the facts and my claim and they would fill in the form for me. How cool is that!

So I'm doing just that. I am preparing a file in this format: 

- Accompanying notes: a link to my listing, my house rules, links to Airbnb's ToS

- Evidence: screenshots from ALL the conversations with the guest and Airbnb

- Timeline of Events: a list of the key points in our communication, which references the above Evidence

I wanted to send it off today but I decided to take half the day off and go to the beach to let my hair down instead, I was beginning to get too tunnel-visioned and obsessed. It was a good move as re-reading it now I found it a tad too angry, so I've edited it to make it purely factual and emotionless. I'm not in a hurry so it will get done when it gets done, my mental sanity comes first. 

I'll get them 🙂

[Cor3]

Hi @Yan49,

I was actually looking for something else (concerning house-rules) on the community, when I stumbled on this thread.

Wow, What a story!

First of all: My compliments for your excellent house-rules. I will certainly be revisiting mine – based on how you have it setup.

Guests have to acknowledge the house-rules, when they want to book a property. But most people will nowadays just blindly hit that accept button. Regardless of what’s in there (even when it says: You agree to having your right-arm chopped off). Most people got numb nowadays and are just accepting about anything.

It is actually an excellent idea to have them repeat your secret couple of words as the first words in their initial message to you (Because even such a small thing, will already reveal a lot about the guest).

So it is clear: Airbnb will side with the guest, no matter what. Even when the guest intentionally breaks the rules (As I suppose the guest did not gave birth to a 5-year old, just overnight).

They even overrule their own former decisions.

It’s clear the guests were hoping to get away with it. And when they were caught, they repented. And thought to get away with it, nevertheless.

Maybe personally I would have dealt differently with the situation. But it is your property and you made it very clear from the beginning. So were the consequences. Because they put you at stake of being fined/penalized – through their decisions/actions!

One of your comments said, the guest was still there. So the guest didn’t leave – and still getting the remaining nights reimbursed?

Was this guest given a chance to leave you a review?

As I suppose it is not public yet.

Success with the follow-up via AAA/ADR.

And I would certainly like to hear the outcome!

[Yan49]

Hi @Cor3

I'm always open to doing something better, please do tell me how you would have handled it so if this happens again I'll have one more idea on how to deal with it.

Having a y house rules is largely a useless as far as case manager decisions are concerned, it's not like they'll stop at ignoring them, they'll even u-turn on what their own case manager decided - hell, they'll even say their own Product Director doesn't know what she's talking about, LOL.

What I'm hoping it does do though is give me a valid argument for the arbitration case. And if that fails, because they can't mess with EU laws and make us give up our right to go through the legal system, I have the Small Claims Court as a safety net, who have a much better track record of siding with the public as they are a national body and the big companies are stripped of their  big-shot lawyers in that Court.

Airbnb are also heavily under fire from EU regulators about their shady and vague practises and have an Aug deadline to comply on a number of issues. See Gregory's thread for a link. 

[Cor3]

Hi @Yan49,

I'm not really in a position to give you the right answer. 

But maybe I would have chosen the more weak hearted track, and agreeing to let the remaining persons stay. On the other side: I’m very proud that you stick to your very clear rules.

Of course I cannot judge, what the other possible consequences are to you, due to the original headcount.

And as you said, your solicitor neighbor didn’t appreciate it either.

It’s always the same: Guests thinking that the accommodation is already expensive enough and in THEIR view the property can easily accommodate more people (not thinking about any other reason that may apply).

Earlier on this year I had a request to house 8 or 9 persons (our property sleeps max 5 and maybe 6, when a baby is involved).

And they were actually surprised, for me to kindly turn them down.

Why: First of all, there is always a good reason for the max capacity of any property. And secondly it would almost definitely have resulted in negative review-comments, such as: A bit small for our group. And I’m not even talking about the additional wear and tear this may have caused.

The fact that Airbnb assigned a whole series of case managers to your particular case was maybe already a sign for some trouble heading your way. Most likely driven by a non-stop crying, desperate and very persistent guest, for whom this whole trip is now becoming a bit of a financial nightmare.

Unfortunately: At the end of the day, this whole thing will at least hurt you somewhat (one way or the other) 😞

• The relationship with Airbnb is disturbed forever.
• Negative review by the guest
• It will cost you at least some money and time

Of course for what any of the above is worth to you.

BTW: Did the guests repeat the magic words in their initial message to you?

For your information: Our property is in a gated complex (Algarve). And in Portugal they are currently thinking about introducing laws, where the full HOA has to agree on STR activities being conducted by each owner. And knowing there are close to 150 apartments in this complex. And on top of it, it is also used for some residential purposes. So you can imagine, what kind of struggle this will be.

I wish you all the best in your follow-up actions on this particular case.

And yes, it indeed proves that despite of your very carefully and thoroughly thought-of house-rules. What are they worth at the end of the day 😞

They want to give the guest a second chance. How many second changes do hosts get, when they have to cancel a confirmed reservation?

[Roxana67]

I am exactly in the same shoes at this moment in time with a guest refusing to leave when the rules were broken. they have booked for less guests than we have found in the house on an announced visit. they are now hanging on the fact that i say the maximum number of guests accepted on the property is 10 guests including adults, children, toddlers, babies and any visitors and they were only 8. however i charge per person and they have only paid for 7 not 8. (4 adults, 3 children booked and actually 6 adults and 2 children present).

Airbnb told me they will instruct the guests to leave within 1 hour and that i have the right to have an early cancelation for breaking the rules with not having to refund. The lady on the phone said she will call me back too.

One hour went then we called again and no answer. so i went and asked the guests to leave. they said there is no way they are going anywhere and no one has told them to leave. 

having been threatened with agressive attitude by 3 of the adults and no airbnb customer service answer we told them we will be back in the morning but they will have to leave.

Just before midnight after 3 calls and nearly an hour waiting time, i have managed to speak to someone with no resolution, but with the revelation that the supervisor that said that they will instruct the guests to leave the house has left no record of speaking to me or to my guests and they will have to take time to listen to calls and see if they can find the call and take i tfrom there. 

In the mean time i have someone in my house that breaks the rules, threatens me and laughs in my face that they can do whatever they want just because they have made a payment.

[Yan49]

That's so sad to hear Roxana, I feel for you. You know you can always resort to calling the police if you want them out in a hurry, especially if you're feeling threatened. Then again, who wants to go through that trouble and be "that family who host dodgy Airbnb guests". 

[Kenneth-And-Lilia0]

One of my rules:  No local guests accepted.  Being a tourist town (Vegas), I only book to people who have another place they live at.

[Vickie5]

Good for you Yan. I have an apartment which states only 2 guests are allowed. At one stage, this group had 7 guests! They also tried to break in through a divider door to get in via the main house. I wanted to kick them out but airbnb took 3 days to get back to me and just directed me to the Resolution Centre. I will be adding something similar to your rules where guests agree to the number of guests or forfeit any refunds. Great idea. Thank you

[Jessica-and-Henry0]

@Yan49

Although I've never had to enforce it yet, I have in my house rules that for "cancellations which are necessary due to house rule violation by the guest then the guest will be asked to proceed with an immediate "guest cancellation" and no refund beyond what the cancellation policy allows will be issued."

I usually reiterate this point to potential guests while I send my house rules thru abb messenger. No unauthorized guests probably being the most important for us, and since Henry and I are on-site hosts with a shared home private listing set up, it's pretty obvious that guests won't be able to "sneak" people in without us knowing. We make it clear that we have strict rules and if any guest finds any of the rules to be difficult or unnecessary or overbearing in any way, they are free to and SHOULD go elsewhere since it means they will not be a good fit with our home and hosting style.

[Garrick2]

I have had a few incidents in the past, when I requested funds from the guest I was ignored and ended up escalatingto Airbnb for resolution.

When I recieve a resolution payout under this circumstance is this from the guest or Airbnb?