Paid for cleaning, but got a bad review for not cleaning. WTF????

[Илья0]

For the second time in a row we are having problems with hosts on the issue of cleaning. There was a cleaning fee both times so we did not feel obliged to leave the place spotless and as usual did some stuff that we regard as a nice gesture towards the host, like start the dishwashing machine, take out the garbage etc. We didn't leave piles of garbage in the house etc. And both times the hosts told us that were guilty of leaving the house dirty and untidy. WTF??

The first host complained (in a private message) that the house was "very dirty", which could not have been true. We stayed outside most of the time. He also complained that the floor in the bathroom was dirty. That was indeed true, but since there was a cleaning fee we left to the cleaners. The host also mentioned that the house rules "were very clear" on the issue of cleanliness, but there was nothing anywhere: not in the listing and not in the home instructions.

So, all in all, we payed for the cleaning but were scolded for leaving the house dirty!

The second host complained (in a public review) that we did not show respect for his property. We rented his villa for 1 month for $10K+, ordered cleaning ourselves in the middle of our stay, replaced all kitchen items that were broken (inevitable during a one-month stay of several families in home). When we asked the host why he gave us a bad review, when we payed for the cleaning, she said that we left the house untidy. Meaning we left toys by the pool, didn't return several furniture pieces (not heavy) where they were initialy. The only fair complaint was baby food on the couch, we offered to pay for that.

So again, we payed the host to clean and got a bad review for "not tidying up the whole place". Where the fine line between clean and tidy???

Isn't it obvious that if you are renting out your 4-bedroom villa for a month to several families you will have to spend some time/money on cleaning and "tidying up". 

Or at least you should clearly state what you expect from your guests and what they should expect from you in terms of cleaning, especially for long rents. 

I strongly believe that AirBnB should have a clear policy on cleaning so that everyone is on the same page and would not have their vacation tainted by bullsh*t like this

[Ange2]

@Илья0   If I am to "leave the place as I found it" I should be told this before I rent it. And that means no cleaning fee."

I'm with you on that it should be clear and in the rules.  Part of the problem / charm of Airbnb is that it is a unique experience in a private home and as such there is no standardization, it's part of its allure but can also be ripe for misunderstandings by guest and host alike.  A  'given' for one person may be the furthest thing from someone else's mind, and something that appears obvious to one person is an enigma to another. In my experience never assume anything, always ask.

[April--Mike--And-Maggie0]

Ha!  I actually waive the cleaning fee for stays 10 nights or longer!

I've never given a guest a bad review based on their cleanliness--guess I just never had one leave it in very bad shape.  But I DO mention if guests left it very clean or took especially good care of things.  Having a small, old-fashioned cottage that looks like "grandma's house", in a quiet neighborhood, next door to our house, probably helps as well.

[Russell49]

AirBnB is not like hotels. We are not your mothers. Clean up after yourself. Cleaning fees are covering cleaning supplies as well. If this is an issue, then use expensive hotels that offer less value.

[Monica4]

My cleaning fee covers doing the laundry (bed sheets, blankets, towels, placemats...etc), cleaning the bathroom and washing the floors. I expect the dirt on the floor to be swept up by the guests. I expect the kitchen to be left as they found it. I do not inspect every pot and dish between guests so leaving the kitchen clean and everything put away is common courtesy by guests towards other guests.

Yes, I am sorry but I would also not give you a good review. I think you need to read the house rules and know what is expected before you book and if you feel that the rules are unfair then don't book at that place. Baby food on the couch? Food should be eaten in the kitchen, including baby food for babies.

[Илья0]

Thank you for your answer, @Monica4

Well as a guest I think that I wouldn't give you a good review if I found dirty dishes that you chose to neglect. That would also be fair, right? The problem is that cleaning is almost never specified in the house rules. That is my main concern. Meaning I'm violating rules I'm not aware of. Had they been clearly stated I would have had a choice of booking or not.

As for babies: they are fed in the kitchen, but they burp where they want. I'm sure you're aware of that

[Louise0]

"As for babies, they burp where they want".   Seriously?  You think letting your child vomit on the furniture and floor is OK?  

I think we're all getting the true picture here.  It's nothing to do with cleaning fees, the problem is you're a bit of a grub and think your behaviour is normal.  It's not.

[Isabel203]

😞  Sorry, folks, I am going to be a dissenting voice here. I accept only short term stays and do NOT expect my guests to do any cleaning other than tidying up spills. In fact, I discourage attempts at housework by guests by not leaving any but the most basic cleaning supplies, since they would almost certainly not do it up to my standards and bad cleaning sometimes makes good cleaning more difficult. All I ask is that dirty dishes are back in the kitchen and garbage is all in the garbage can.

As a guest, I would be just as miffed as @Илья0 if I paid for cleaning and then was criticised for not doing it myself. Having a clean space on entry is a basic expectation any guest should be able to count on (and is in keeping with AirBnB's standards) and they should not be levied any extra fee just to guarantee this.

[Karen-and-Brian0]

@Isabel203 It's expected that all hosts will do a very thorough cleaning after each guest - but a certain amount of tidying is expected. If I walked into our property & saw mud (or whatever consitutes a very dirty floor), I would certainly mark the guest down for that. I don't expect them to scour the toilets, bath tub etc. but if they leave yesterday's dinner all over the table & counter tops, I consider that "could have been cleaner". I really think @Илья0 has left more than your average mess - otherwise it would not be a pattern. 

[Илья0]

@Karen-and-Brian0

Thanks for your input. First of all you're right. It's definitely a pattern and I don't like it. I don't like looking like jerk especially when previous reviews were good. So I want to get to the bottom of this, because there's obviously a misunderstanding about cleaning and we really felt baffled

So: 

The pattern began this summer when we started traveling with our infant twins and renting big houses for weeks.

This is to point out that previously we mostly traveled just the two of us and couldn't possibly cause much of a mess. But we always cleaned up the dishes, never left garbage lying around etc. And we still payed the cleaning fees. And got good reviews.

But when you're living in a big house with kids for weeks it's a totally different thing for you and for the host. As a guest you upkeep the place yourself, so you can continue to live in a clean place: we washed floors, we hired cleaning ourselves, we replaced broken glasses etc.  As a host you don't have to clean the house every several days between guests, but I think you should still expect a more than average amount of cleaning after several families living together for a month. 

And if you're not up to that: state it beforehand.

We did not leave yesterdays dinner anywhere. When three adults and two babies use only bathroom in the house it's bound to get dirty and if gets dirty by the end of the stay you don't call the host and ask "does my cleaning fee include a dirty floor in the bathroom?". Because you have a cleaning fee, right?

What I'm trying to adress with this whole rant is "more than the average mess". It's not about me vs hosts. It's about general AirBnB policy towards cleaning. I think there should be a clear understanding on what is expected from guests and hosts. Or, for example, have every host fill out a section of what he expects, so people would spend less time fuming.

[Jessica-and-Henry0]

I'm kinda with @Isabel203 on this one. Cleaning fee or not, as a guest or host, I would expect the place to be clean at check-in. Even if you clean up after yourself, after a while the bathroom gets a bit grubby, floors needs vaccuming, and the counter top needs a good thorough wipe down.  

IMO, "cleaning up after yourself" and "cleaning the place before check-out" are two totally different things. I honestly don't understand the "leave the place in the condition you found it" expectations and personally, I would never knowingly stay in a place that expected me to strip the bedsheets before checking out. With that said, guests don't have the right to leave caked mud all over the floors or food residue on furniture. 

Whether it is expected of me or not and whether I stay at an Airbnb or hotel, I put trash in the trash cans and try to leave items like the remote or hair dryer more or less where they belong and do a basic "tidy up" but I'm NOT scrubbing someone else's the bathroom floors. 

[Karen-and-Brian0]

@Jessica-and-Henry0 I honestly think, since this has happened to @Илья0 before, that they are leaving the places in a state that is above & beyond normal expectations. No one said you had to strip the bedsheets & I think the bathroom floors in this case were left in a state that was over & above normal grubbiness. Very dirty, in fact. There is a difference. Maybe it's a fine line, but I think most of us can see it for what it is. I just don't think guests should assume that since they pay a cleaning fee, they can leave the place like a tip (dump). The cleaning fee is to ensure the place is clean when they arrive, not a license to leave a mess. Of course this is JMO. - Karen 

[Jessica-and-Henry0]

@Karen-and-Brian0

I never said a cleaning fee gives anyone the right to leave someone else's home a dump. And I certainly do not condone that type of "I paid, I can do whatever I want" attitude. It is a fine line - like you said, and maybe @Илья0 deserves to be called out for leaving the place a total dump when he checked out, but I also understand where he is coming from (not that I agree with him though) and think some hosts kinda overdo it. Just wanted to point out there are always at least two sides to every story~  🙂 

-Jess 

[Karen-and-Brian0]

@Jessica-and-Henry0 Yes there always are 2 sides to every story, for sure - but since this guest said this is the second time it's happened to them, methinks the problem is with them & not hosts being overly picky. My 2 cents - Karen 

[Илья0]

@Karen-and-Brian0

From the outside the problem is with of course with me: guy complains about systematically bad reviews. Probaly a slob, I could have thought so myself

But, as I already posted, I started travelling with kids and renting big houses. And it turns out that my expectations of what a cleaning fee is  systematically do not coincide with those of the hosts. So I guess there really is a problem. But is it just mine or is that there's no clarification on what cleaning is when it comes to renting out, especially big places for a long time? If there's no clarity on that then guest will continue to get bad reviews and hosts will lose business only because they did not make it clear what they expect upon check-out. 

It is obvous from this thread that there's no unity on this issue among hosts, not mentioning guests.

[Илья0]

@Karen-and-Brian0 thanks once again.

No one left a dump, but that could always be a matter of opinion, so I'm not going there again. But as I replied to another host: the cleaning fee is paid for my mess, not someone elses. That's the only logic. The cleaning fee is to ensure that YOU have a clean place when the person after me arrives. By your logic the next guest has to pay for a cleanup after my family&friends stayed in the house for a month?