After Being Assaulted By A Guest

[Duane4]

Video of assault at link at end.

I just had a guest book for 5 people in a house that has a max of 12 allowed by the local government. They showed up with at least 16. Go to the house to count people and you get assaulted. You ask them how many you have. They won't answer. Of course when you asked them in a message how many and they lied to you about it.

This isn't the first time I've had guests book for a smaller number of people. In another house that holds 15 I had a guest bring 21.

AirBNB is doing nothing about this. It's making be concerned about continuing to host on this platform when you get no support. Of course the guest lies and says I'm the one that started it.

Most of guests are wonderful people. But this has me concerned for my safety going forward.

[Link hidden for safety reasons – in line with the Community Center Guidelines]

[Jessica-and-Henry0]

@Duane4 

Exactly. Technology won't solve all your problems, but if used well, can help you manage and mitigate SOME problems. 

Having surveillance cameras won't stop people from breaking your rules and bring more people than allowed, but when they do, at least you have evidence without the risk of being assulted because you have to go to the house to count people in your home. You don't need  guests to answer how many people are there. You have it all on camera. 

[Patrick303]

But they are smart.  They will enter in smaller groups at different times so you cant prove who is who.

[Paul154]

@Duane4 

What a nightmare. I'm getting PTSD just watching them.

No one should have to deal with trash like this.

With a brand new house and investment, I hope you can figure a way to enforce your rules.

But these people would be need to  be stopped at the door BEFORE entry.

[Duane4]

@Paul154 you can't figure this out because AirBNB doesn't tell you who they are. You can't cheack out who they are before they arrive. If you don't let people come they take away your superhost status.

AirBNB is only interested in one one entity. AirBNB. They could care less about promoting trust and transparency in our community.

They are about exactly the oppisite as I'm leaarning very cearly from this experience.

This guest propabbly did this before and will do this again.

They will just get a new profile with another name and no reviews and because there are a lot of people  out there like that someone will book them.

[Duane4]

Here are the house rules for this. I'll give hosts some advice. Don't bother writing house rules. They aren't worth the time it takes to write them. AirBNB will not honor your house rules. They are a fair weather friend. I'm sure that this will now be blamed on me by AirBNB and I'll get banned from the site before this is over.

House Rule 1. Relax and enjoy your stay but please treat this as your home. These rules are designed to help you have a safe, uneventful, and enjoyable stay based on years of hosting experience. We want you to have fun, not get hurt, go home happy and want to come back for another stay. Most are common sense.

House Rule 2. All guests must acknowledge that a violation of the this short-term rental agreement or the Ordinance of the Township of Pocono, Monroe County, PA, To Regulate Short-Term Rentals, Ordinance No. 2017-03 (which may be found at, https://www.poconopa.gov/home/news/short-term-rental-ordinance) may result in the termination of the Owner's short term-rental license. Guests will be responsible for any fines issued under any of the local, state, or national regulations or laws arising from their use of the property. Guest will also be jointly and severally responsible for any loss of use that the owners may incur because of any of your or your fellow guests acts. Violations of any of the above will result in the immediate termination of your stay with no refunds. Booking this house means it would be nice if you send us a message that says that states, "I understand I'm bound by this short-term rental agreement and all house rules." Thank You. Even if you do not send this message, you are still bound by this rule as you agreed to it when you accepted the reservation.

House Rule 6. We understand group sizes change all the time up until you actually arrive at the house. We want to be accommodating to your needs and we adjust group sizes up to the house maximum for almost every group. However, undeclared guests will result in an additional per guest fee of $35 if you do not adjust your group size by 12:01 pm the day following check-in. If you need help with this, please contact us when you check-in. In addition, there is a $300 fine for having more than 12 guests staying overnight. Your stay maybe canceled without refund if you bring undeclared guests.

House Rule 4. No more than 12 persons of any age, no exceptions. The number of day guests is limited to 6 additional. No more than 18 people allowed on the property at any time. Only 4 cars allowed to park overnight. All children count as a person regardless of age. These requirements imposed upon  the use of the home as a Short Term Rental by the Township of Pocono and may be enforced by either the code official or the Pocono Township Police Department. Either the code official or the  police may make an unannounced visit to the property to check compliance during your stay. There is a $300 fine for having more than 12 guests staying overnight.

[Alice-and-Jeff0]

@Duane4  - the best part of the video is right at the beginning:  "We have 16 people here ready to kick your ass."   She's telling you right up front that she's violating!  Stupid people really do stupid stuff.  

And what about the truck just pulled up on the grass?!  Who DOES that?!  

Please tell me that you gave her a giant thumbs down review and that you have filed a claim with the local police for her aggression and threats, because I'm telling you, she's coming back for revenge on your home, she's that kind of person.  

[Kelly149]

@Duane0a couple of ideas

1. No day guests, Ever.

2. If the city has a hard 12 person max then make your max 8  or 10 or something less than 12.

3. Remove that bit about "we can adjust your reservation". Nope. Tell me who you're bringing right after booking, pay for those folks and no, you cannot change it later. This is not a hotel

4. Get names, ages & contact info for every single guest.

5. Make up your mind that bad people will not get to come to your house or stay at your house regardless of what ABB says.

6. Raise ABB rates

7. List on other sites. On Vrbo I have a real security deposit, the ability to cancel & MUCH better guests.

8. Right now your rules & protocols assume that people are good and you'll work with them. Might be better to have your rules designed to prevent problems. So, if single family groups with less than 8 guests have never been a problem then maybe that's who you should be renting to, etc. Oh, and ABB has never believed in fines. You cannot write rules to create fines for rule breaking. Rules exist for 2 reasons only: 1) deter a guest from booking 2) create a reason to kick a guest out (keep in mind that you won't be paid for the stay, but you'll get rid of the problem)

Good luck!

[Duane4]

@Alice-and-Jeff0  It's my truck. I didn't want them to try to charge me with kidnapping or unlawful imprisonment due to blocking thier path to leave. That was their next move.

I haven't done the review yet.

When the police where there I didn't know if the recording was working. But I've sent them the video. So that might change the charging issue.

They said they aren't going to pay. I just told AirBNB that I dont' have a problem charging them with Theft of Service, https://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/18/00.039.026.000..HTM.

Let me give you the relevant parts of the law.

§ 3926. Theft of services.

(a) Acquisition of services.--

(1) A person is guilty of theft if he intentionally obtains services for himself or for another which he knows are available only for compensation, by deception or threat, by altering or tampering with the public utility meter or measuring device by which such services are delivered or by causing or permitting such altering or tampering, by making or maintaining any unauthorized connection, whether physically, electrically or inductively, to a distribution or transmission line, by attaching or maintaining the attachment of any unauthorized device to any cable, wire or other component of an electric, telephone or cable television system or to a television receiving set connected to a cable television system, by making or maintaining any unauthorized modification or alteration to any device installed by a cable television system, or by false token or other trick or artifice to avoid payment for the service.

(4) Where compensation for service is ordinarily paid immediately upon the rendering of such service, as in the case of hotels and restaurants, refusal to pay or absconding without payment or offer to pay gives rise to a presumption that the service was obtained by deception as to intention to pay.

(f) Restitution.--The court may, in addition to any other sentence authorized by law, sentence a person convicted of violating this section to make restitution under section 1106 (relating to restitution for injuries to person or property) or 42 Pa.C.S. § 9721(c) (relating to sentencing generally).

(h) Definitions.--As used in this section, the following words and phrases shall have the meanings given to them in this subsection:

"Service." Includes, but is not limited to, labor, professional service, transportation service, the supplying of hotel accommodations, restaurant services, entertainment, cable television service, the supplying of equipment for use and the supplying of commodities of a public utility nature such as gas, electricity, steam and water, and telephone or telecommunication service. The term "unauthorized" means that payment of full compensation for service has been avoided, or has been sought to be avoided, without the consent of the supplier of the service.

perhaps the guests should have studied the law better.

[Alice-and-Jeff0]

Sorry I was judgy about the truck @Duane4 @ I just assumed it was theirs and it was more bad behavior.

So is Airbnb doing nothing?

[Duane4]

@Alice-and-Jeff0 Just so you know I try to answer people and keep the record straight.

It's ok. Even though we have a house rule about not parking on the grass we have had people do it.

It's  in limbo right now. I'm finally supposted to get a call from the security people tomorrow. I've got guests in town and his car broke down. We just rented a U-haul so he can take the car home. I get that It would cost me more to advertize the place than what ABB charges and that I get a better bang for my time and money using them and the other sites.

But the rules they have put in place do not allow for trust and

transparency. In fact they decrease that.

When you deal with a guest like this you learn that quickly. They know that the 

trust and transparency is for them. She lied. I've heard the same lies before.

[Ben551]

What the actual eff... @Duane4  you showed your quality in a tense situation. You shouldn’t have to deal with this type of thing. Have you considered paying for security surveillance?

I have 24/7 alarm monitoring, for the simple reason that I want to be able to push a remote “panic” button if I need to and have large, hulking guys (250 lbs and no neck) arrive at my property and back me up if I need to. I get 4 free call outs per year. The police where I live are too slow and don’t always respond unless you say there is violence, drugs or weapons involved, so I guess in a way I have my own hired guys in uniform... it’s an extra expense, but it covers both my Airbnb and my own private place. Also, if I really want to get people “out” I can remote trip the alarm in the Airbnb and set off all the sirens 🙂

I dunno if this is helpful at all, but thought I’d share anyway. It sounds like you need to get this behind you. I just hope it doesn’t turn into another saga with Airbnb not backing the host...

[Ben551]

Oh @Duane4 one more thing: you can install Party Crashing technology in your Airbnb. Not that you need it, if you already have a good eye on things. Perhaps useful for other hosts reading to be aware of...

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/10/29/18037604/noiseaware-gen-3-indoor-outdoor-security...

Credit for finding this goes to Dee Walton in the Airbnb Blacklist group. They are tracking and busting about 5-6 illegal Airbnb parties per day in that group right now, mostly centred around Chicago, but others are elsewhere. I think it’s good that extra measures are available if hosts want a little extra reassurance...

[Duane4]

@Ben551 yeah. Thanks. I'm considering hiring some people. We have cameras. Thanks for the link.

The remote siren is an idea. Just set it off and leave them to stew.

The issue is if you don't personally confront  the guest and actually get them to admit and accept resposiblity it's hard to collect through ABB. Also if they told me how many people where there I might have made a deal with them. These people knew how the game with ABB works. It's not the first time they've done this. It was obvoius from the messages.

I do a lot of volume compared to most. With 0.5% of the listings I do about 1.5% of the bookings in my county.

[Jess78]

Holy cow, this is horrifying.  Sorry Duane. I personally lost that blind faith in AirBnb as a company that cares about hosts with my own incident where I was not backed up at all. All is rosy and well for hosts until you have a major issue and just want your security deposit and for Airbnb to take your side about safety and security -- then BOOM, if you have an unfortunate situation like this the veil is lifted and you realize it's just a booking/advertising platform that doesn't allow you to collect a security depositand will actually rule against you and your hard earned investment. It simply isn't a conmpany that's run well enough to handle these matters in consistent, fair, safe, professional ways. Period.

For the record, I've purposely decreased the number of people that our home can host because I've realized the more people, the more it invites activities we'd rather not host in our home. I also make the guest verbally reply the days before their reservation that their numbers have not changed, meet them after they check in, ask for the full names and ages of all people on the reservation, and I don't accept reservations I get weird feelings about at all. Too bad if I discriminate against groups of twenty-somethings who are friends. I really don't care, we must look out for ourselves.

Their host guarantee and supposed background checks mean absolutely zero.

Please take care Duane and let us all know how this shakes out for you. It could be any one of us any day and I do believe you have the law on your side, but not abb.

[Duane4]

@Jess78 I totally agree with you. Until you have this experience with a guest, this isn't my first rodeo, you have no clue. Then ABB will do everything they can to not make good.

What new hosts don't know yet is that the host guarantee program isn't worth the toilet paper it was written on.

This certainly isn't a mature well run company. I've been ruled against many times. I'm waiting for that to happen in this case as well. The police came. I have all the names. I'll go swear out the arrest warrents myself if I have to. This obvoiusly wasn't the first time this hapepned.

I'll let you know how it goes.