Cleaning Initiative is Ridiculous.

[Juan63]

I welcome teaching hosts how to maintain a "safer" space but it's absurd and a complete overreach to demand hosts to follow a certain protocol or face a 72 hr penalty.

My place was immaculate before covid and will be, during and after.

Are you purposely trying to make more hosts quit?

[Debra300]

@Mark116,

I signed up for it, because I see the protocol as another marketing tool, and a way to provide the guest some level of assurance.  If you really think about it, you're probably already doing the level of cleaning that's advised by the CDC. 

@Marie22,

I didn't get as far as reading about washing the porch ceiling, but I think that it's unnecessary, because most porches are outside and well ventilated. 

Just so you know that I didn't drink the Airbnb Kool-aid, I also have my spaces listed on Booking.com, Expedia.com, Flipkey, HomeAway, and my own website.  So, if I find that the cleaning protocol doesn't jive with how I want to maintain my spaces, I won't feel compelled to stick with it like some other hosts who singularly use Airbnb as their booking channel.

@Juan63, @Kelly149, @Sarah977,

[Kelly149]

@Debra300 I don't think you get to decide which parts you will or won't do, saying that you'll do "the protocol" means that you'll do it all. Which means you'll be taking down and washing your curtains, washing all machine washable fabrics (throw pillows, dust ruffles, etc), taking EVERY dish out of the cupboard and running those thru the dishwasher, washing all walls and baseboards with soap and water.... I could keep going, these are just the ones I remember off the top of my head

[Debra300]

@Kelly149,

You're correct, hosts cannot pick and choose the parts of the protocol they want to adhere to.  I do think that cleaning an open porch ceiling is unnecessary, but I also believe that the protocol left out key items that are known to have an impact on indoor airflow, and we will continue to clean them.  Since we already spray down the  balcony floor (because of bird and lizard poop), cleaning the balcony ceiling will not be an onerous task for us.  To reach the ceiling, we will use Wet and Forget Outdoor that connects to the hose or the Suds N Go brush kit that we got from Costco.

I have stated before in other community conversations that we already do the level of cleaning that is in the handbook.  In fact, I had made an inquiry asking other hosts how long it took them to clean their spaces, and said that it takes us 5-6 hours (this includes laundry time).  I also suggested using Febreze Professional Sanitizer (Clorox also has a non-bleach fabric sanitizer) to disinfect soft surface items, and shared how I plan to disinfect our rugs.  

I understand that protocol may seem arduous to many hosts, because we work full-time jobs also and it's time consuming, but the guidelines are with the assumption that everyone is a potential coronavirus carrier.  Again, I see the protocol as a marketing tool to give guests some assurance that it's safe to stay in your space.  Adding a couple of cleaning steps are just another part of the overall marketing activities that we do, similar to planting and maintaining a garden.

[Sarah977]

Seriously, hospitals send their cleaning crews up on ladders to wash the ceiling? I think not.

These protocols wouldn't even be followed in a hospital ward full of highly infectious patients.

[Debra300]

@Sarah977,

I do think you are correct about hospital's ceilings not being cleaned by the cleaning staff. I do know that  places such as hospitals, clean rooms, laboratories, airports and food processing plants hire commercial HVAC companies to clean their ventilation systems, including ductwork and vents, because my husband is a commercial HVAC technician.  Never once in 20 years has he said that they cleaned the ceiling or had seen anyone else do it.  He has mentioned on multiple occasions the amount of dust, gunk and spider webs that he sees up there.

There's irony in the fact that porch ceilings are included in the cleaning handbook, but there is no mention of cleaning common environmental control items that actually distribute airflow within a home/living space.  Ceiling fans, floor/desk fans, air registers, range hoods, mini split-system blowers, window-unit ACs, wall heaters, PTAC units, air purifiers, dehumidifiers, and bathroom vents are omitted.

Although a very forceful sneeze or cough can produce a sneeze cloud that could each a ceiling it is more probable that the expelled droplets can get into the air circulation and ventilation systems.

[Sarah977]

@Debra300  It seems to me that even if someone coughed or sneezed hard enough to reach the ceiling (and it seems like they'd have to have their face directed at the ceiling, and exhalations fall, they don't rise), the droplets would stick there to the surface-they aren't going to rain down at some later date, and if there is a day left between bookings, even if it did rain down, it would then be right away on the floor or other surfaces. 

I just can't imagine who comes up with these ideas that make no common sense at all. 

[Lisa723]

@Kelly149 @Juan63 @Mark116 @Sarah977 

We too have opted out of this protocol. Since we've instituted a four-day vacancy buffer anyway, and don't plan to change that (72 hours from check-out to cleaning, 24 hours from cleaning to check-in) it seems largely unnecessary and it is certainly more than we can commit to on every turnover. If I had a very tiny space and same-day turnovers were important I guess I might consider it, but there is no way we could take this on for our entire house listings.

As a guest, I don't think I would place much faith in this because I would bet many/most hosts who do commit to it won't actually do it, as @Debra300 seems to indicate.

[Debra300]

@Lisa723,

I neither said, nor implied that "many/most hosts who do commit to it won't actually do it", but that's your inference.

[Lisa723]

@Debra300 well, you said "I didn't get as far as reading about washing the porch ceiling, but I think that it's unnecessary, because most porches are outside and well ventilated." So you committed to it without reading it, and have stated you think part of what you didn't read is unnecessary. If despite this you do plan to read the whole thing and do the whole thing including parts you don't think are necessary, I apologize for my incorrect inference.

[Helen427]

Who at ABB who is giving them legal advice and has failed miserably in reading and comprehending Public Health Acts including Guidelines to Infectious diseases ?

Come on @Airbnb  tell the powers that be to pull their socks up.

Under law those Cleaning Guidelines are for IF a person HAS an Infectious Disease not if one doesn't.

It needs to be clarified and transparent this policy only applies to places where in fact an Infected person /s have stayed and not a blanket approach for all guests regardless of their health status.

As an aside here in NZ Andrew Borrowdale, who had a key role in writing Public Health Policies, now has the support of the Criminal Bar Assn, Auckland District Law Society & New Zealand Law Society to all be heard in Courts of Law for his Judicial Review challenge against the Director General of Health, Ashley Bloomfield for our Covid19/ Coronavirus Lockdown, bc it is such a significant matter of "Public Importance"....

Australia also have cases before the Courts, and the Judicial Review in the UK  is this week.

May I reasonably suggest you look them up as most Public Health Acts across the world are similar wording.

@Juan63 @Debra300 @Lisa723 @Sarah377 @Mark116 @Kelly149 

[Mark116]

What I am wondering is if signing up for this protocol is going to open the window for hosts who are found 'negligent' e.g. if someone finds a speck on glassware or dust on the top of the wall or under the bed which indicates that it wasn't wiped down from the ceiling, if this will become a reason for a refund and/or a host being delisted? 

[Lisa723]

@Mark116 yes and TBH I wonder whether this new badge will have the unintended consequence of attracting the very guests that hosts least want to host. I'll be watching with interest to see how it goes for hosts that sign up.

[Debra300]

@Mark116,

That's a good question to pose. Do you happen to know how Airbnb currently handles a guest's claim regarding uncleanliness?

I think the best way we has host can proactively address this is to inform guests that the protocol was followed, but that does not mean the space was hermetically sealed, and it is possible that dust can appear due to air circulation or through the ventilation system. We can also remind them that sometimes the dishwasher will leave deposits on washed items, and inform them that we've provided some basic cleaning supplies for them to use during their stay. 

[Sarah977]

@Helen427  "Under law those Cleaning Guidelines are for IF a person HAS an Infectious Disease not if one doesn't."

And exactly how would you know if someone staying was infectious or not? It's not like hosts have a stack of test kits to use on each guest who arrives. 

[Helen427 · Accepted solution]

@Juan63 @Mark116 @Sarah977 @Debra300 @Lisa723

@Kelly149 and others, in the guidance they are giving us is a reference to a former USA Surgeon, Vivek M. He used to be an advisor for Obama.

Look him up like I did.

 It's possibly unlikely at a guess that he's ever done cleaning.

It's a standard guideline that's been given out regardless of what Infectious disease it may be.

 In Govt Public Health Acts legislation there's always been reference to disinfection of bedding and other items when a person has an Infectious disease, hence as I've said previously, read your local Public Health Act and associated acts.

I recall when a family member had leptospirosis ( a contagious infectious disease)  when we were kids that nothing different was done.

It was standard cleaning with disinfectant which we were always fastidious with.

We were not allowed to enter the bedroom they were recuperating in until after they recovered.

That's commonsense so as to not get unwell.

Count our blessings bc back in early 1900's and prior one wasn't allowed to let or rent out a room or property for 6 weeks if someone with an infectious disease either stayed, lived with or died  in one's home 

Whilst it's more challenging, and an unknown who may have any virus or disease take comfort those who travel via sailing vessels or aircraft have always had to sign declarations if they have any notifiable disease.

That should be picked up & recorded at the border BEFORE departures.

 I'm not sure how that works with boat people/ illegal migrants.

Bear in mind that both Tuberculosis and Ebola are the 2 infectious diseases referenced in International Scientific research papers in Govt Corinavirus/ Covid19 documents used across the world as to how Covid19 would also spread.

Ref - Govt UK  website.

If one has those 2 diseases under control, or not at all in their location, or where one's guest is from one should be reasonably safe to carry on as normal.

I don't recall when we last had reported cases of Tuberculosis in NZ as recent records are not available and I've never known us to have had any cases of Ebola which would be picked up at our borders.

Both diseases that are required by law to be reported to Health Authorities.