Another rant about Customer Services - discount applied without consulting me

[Eileen0]

Monday: the boiler stops working in my flat, no heating or hot water

Monday pm: message guest due to arrive on Wednesday for a 6 night stay to let them know, that a plumber will visit the next day but can't confirm the outcome, say I can ask ABB to find them somewhere else, or offer a discount for the days without heating or hot water. Guest receives my message, says she cannot find alternative booking and would still like to stay.

Tuesday 06:17: message from Customer Services to say there is a "violation of the host standard" and that a 20% discount would be applied across the whole of the 6 night booking.

Tues 06:38: (I'm awake now) I reply saying a plumber has been booked and the boiler may be repaired tonight. And that any discount should be at my discretion and only for the days without heating/hot water

Tues 06:54: Customer Services says that the 20% discount is "according to the policy"

Tues 07:06: (I'm fully awake now and furious) I ask Customer Services for a link to the policy as I have not heard of this one

Links sent, but no mention of such policy, I message Customer Services about the policy again

Tuesday 07:13: Customer Services replies: "we cannot leak it because it is an internal policy" !!

And so it goes for a while with me saying they should at least let me see the policy, that I am very unhappy with this interference in my booking, and absolutely furious that there is a discount applied to the booking without my agreement.

I was absolutely outraged, how dare Customer Services take it upon themselves to give this discount without checking with me first.  

In the past when something similar happened, I would chat to the guests and we would work something out that seemed appropriate to both of us.  Why has this choice been taken away?  

If I am not in control of my rates and my hosting, what is the point!!

[John5097]

@Huma0 

This is simply not a good situation for host or guest. I think she did the right thing by letting guest know, but lets look at the other possible outcomes. 

1) Guest stays and gets 30% refund. (or whatever host decides) and after the stay they contact CS and says there was no heat or hot water and they get a full refund. 

When guest agreed to 20% discount that seems very reasonable for host. Both host or guest would have had the option to cancel under extenuating circumstances policy. 

While I try to avoid CS in this situation I would have been happy with the 20% discount. I don't have time for all the drama and with no estimate for repair of heat and hot water falls on the host to be more accommodating and clear about guest and host options. If it were me and guest wasn't communicating and in agreement with a plan then I would have canceled under extenuating cercomstances. 

Its the host repobsibilty to provide the listing as functional. With extenuating circumstances and major repair I would rather have CS involved before the stay, both host and guest be aware of exact discount, and still have option to cancel penalty free under extenuating circumstance. 

Sometimes host or guest can be too controlling and unreasonable and not surprised that I might have different approach to difficult situations other than ranting and raving. 

[John5097]

@Huma0 @Eileen0 

The main complaint is that Customer Service didn't check with host to approve the 20% discount. 

But lets see how that would play out. CS is on the phone with the guest. CS says they will need to contact the host for agreement of 20% discount, the host doesn't respond in a timely manner or not at all. If the host hasn't already been very clear and up front about the exact discount and exact options for the guest then they likely aren't going to respond to Airbnb CS for final approval. 

Once again it would be nice if host and guest can sort out an agreement without involving CS but I'ld much rather have a 80% payout in agreement with CS. Its just not always practical to get approval on such short notice. Guest can't be left in limbo and uncertain. 

Its just reality. 

[Trude0]

@Eileen0 : Completely understand you being furious! Discounting the whole stay, for something that might not even be an issue at check-in time is of course ridiculous. 

”Internal policy” in my opinion means there is no policy, and Airbnb leaves it up to each CS representative to decide how to handle a situation. Which is not a good idea, as this case proves. Many of them seem quite inexperienced, and some would clearly benefit from having better language skills, and people skills…

Hard to say how one would have reacted in your situation, at extremely-early-in-the-morning o’clock. But as I am not dependent on the income from Airbnb, I think I might actually have cancelled  the booking. Yes, I would have missed 100 % of the payment, instead of 20 %. And had my calendar blocked for the dates in question.

But it would at least have shown Airbnb that their way of handling the case was unacceptable. Plus given them a big challenge: Finding a new place for the guest.

I assume the guest is now staying with you, hope all goes well!

[Pat9257]

Robin, how kind of you. I have been renting for many years and have friends that host also. My most recent trip to Islay in Scotland was exceptional and she even stopped in one night to make sure we were happy. We were very content. I find most are great host.  I only reported the lady in Brussels as she was zonkers. I just roll with most things. I am spending Christmas once again in a previous rental in Germany. I can't wait to stay in this sweet apartment. We will return to Islay and stay in one of Paula's places. She has a house and the barn is two apartments. Great hosts. 

[Elaine701]

These incidences of "interventions" too oft appear to be simply "whatever is the most convenient". In this case, it certainly looks like "Just give the guest a 20% discount" and it's off their task list. Next, please. 

I've also seen this whenever a guest makes any sort of complaint (whether valid or not). The first response always seems to involve a blunt "one size fits all" solution. Only after the host (immediately) arguing their position (and it must involve irrefutable proof) does CS bother to reconsider. And if that doesn't work, then the "solution" stands, case is closed, and off their task list. 

I can appreciate that CS reps are busy. Airbnb is big. There's always somebody complaining about something. Daily interventions must be numerous. I can see why CS reps would like to quickly solve them and move on to the next one. 

But it begs the more basic question of whether Airbnb should intervene as much as it does. No other platform is anywhere near as interventionist as Airbnb, and it opens opportunity for all kinds of dubious behaviours.

Maybe they would be better served to set expectations lower, and not lead their hosts and guests to believe they'll solve every little complaint with monetary "rewards"? It is after all, one of their most visibly promoted features. And facilitates a great opportunity for some guests to take advantage... 

[John5097]

@Eileen0 

While I agree with almost all of your post, no heat or hot water isn't minor. If host agrees to let guest stay, as host has option of canceling penalty free under extuationg circumstance policy, then the host risk 100% guest refund if there is no heat or hot water thoughout the stay. There is no chance it could be rebooked with no heat or hot water, so at least in this case on such short notice I don't think this is overzealous interaction by CS. I've never had CS issue any kind of refund of host behalf. I always try and direct guest to the Airbnb policy. I'm suspect some of my guest may have asked for a refund but were denied because the listing is accurate and they didn't bother to read it. 

[Eileen0]

@John5097  I would have been very happy for the guests to cancel their booking and stay somewhere else, as it was their first time in London and the start of a month long vacation.  I would have happily given a refund for the cancelled booking.  I think the guests contacted ABB to see if other accommodation could found, but there was nowhere available. 

There have been instances in the past where there has been a problem with something (heating, electricity, other bits) and I have always worked something out with guests that we both thought was a reasonable discount.  I imagine that if this discount could not be mutually agreed, then we would involve customer services but it has never got to this stage.

The point is not whether a 20% discount is reasonable or not, I am upset for two reasons: 1) a discount was applied without notification or consultation with me, and 2) the reason given to me for the discount was that there was a company policy that couldn't be shared with me, and was definitely a policy that I had never heard of before in the 10 years I have been hosting.  

If ABB does have such a policy, I would like to know more about it

[John5097]

@Eileen0 

I think this would be part of the most recent refund policy update from the past year where Airbnb announced guest would have 72 hours to report issues and CS at that time would issue a partial refund if guest decided to stay at a listing knowing of the issue. There was a lot of discussion about this and several Zoom meetings with Airbnb executives. I happened to attend two of those. I did suggest a form both guest and host could fill out on their own as an agreement without involving CS for such issues, but that was just an idea, and as I recall in several newsletters and announcements Airbnb would enourage guest and host to sort it out, but when a guest contacted Customer Service about something that disrupted trip, in this case no heat or hot water, they would have option to cancel or if they decided to stay would be issued a partial refund that was already set. This was recent but I in this case I think a 25% refund seems very reasonable from host point of view, at least to me. Under the extenuating cercomsances policy you the host could have also canceled without penalty and would just need to submit documentation that the issue had been repaired. 

To me this seems fair for CS to issue a partial refund during a stay or shortly before a stay without consenting the host. There simply isn't time to negotiate between guest and host of offers and counter offers. Either host or CS needs to make it clear specifically what the guest is entitled to when guest or host firsts reaches out with said issue. Waiting until after repair is made simply isn't practical given the challenges of communicating. 

If you would like I could dig up and search the announcements this year. 

My only intention was to offer my assessment in this situation. Like I said I would have been very happy with a 20% discount for something that major. My concern would be CS offering 50% for disruption to internet that's out of host control if host can provide documents that it was an widespread outage on the service providers end. But as long as these are reasonable refunds I think its the right policy for CS to issue. I'd prefer that to guest staying and keep contacting CS until they found an agent to issue a full refund. 

But one of the announcements did state there would be a set discount rate depending on level of the circumstance. That ABB would try and keep the booking and offer set discount rate. Once again host can still cancel for extenuating circumstance. Although what CS did is exactly what I would have done, offered reasonable discount, or option to cancel. 

Hope that helps. I also think other host just want you to do their dirty work and don't care if you get delisted. I would also try and keep the reservation although this is very challenging because heat and hot water are considered necessary features for a dwelling to be habitable in my jurisdiction. I wasn't finding fault in what you did only offering appraoaches that have worked for me. If I forgot something you mentioned my apologies. This has been ongoing topic for some time. I personally think its encouraging for CS to offer partial refund that seems reasonable, and host still get 80% payout for major issue such as this, as was announced with recent policy updates. 

I know first hand how stressful such a situation is and hope it was all resolved and you can continue on happily hosing. 🙂 

[John5097]

@Eileen0 

This is the FAQ for the recently updated refund and cancelation policy. 

https://www.airbnb.com/resources/hosting-homes/a/details-about-the-guest-rebooking-and-refund-policy...

"4. What makes guests eligible for a refund, and how do you determine the amount?
Guests will be eligible for a refund if they report a valid travel issue—like the absence of a major advertised amenity, such as a pool—within 72 hours of discovery, and they provide appropriate evidence to support their report.

Guests are not eligible for a refund if a Host is able to resolve a serious issue quickly enough to avoid any negative impact on the stay or for a minor issue, like an unemptied trash can.

Typically, guests will only be eligible for a full refund for nights not spent in a Host’s space. When guests choose to remain in the space, they will generally only be eligible for a partial refund for any nights impacted by a serious travel issue.

The size of a refund depends on the severity of the issue, the impact on the guests, whether the guests remain in the space, and the portion of the stay affected.

Full refunds are generally only available to guests for major issues that cause them to vacate the space within the first 24 hours of their stay. Guests are eligible for only partial refunds if the issue is less serious, or they choose to remain in the space." 

For this particular situation I think the guest was at a greater disadvantage. Not blaming you the host as sometimes things break but as it was the guest had no other options which can also happen. 

In the end I would have been very satisfied with the 20% discount as there was no estimate on when repair could be made, so just bad timing. 

I do try look at things from both sides. You could certainly make the argument that everyone should just wait and see if the boiler got repaired on not, but in my humble opinion I would rather take the initiative and let guest know their exact options, and think Customer Support offered a good resolution, and its just not practical to keep dragging issues like this out, as host or guest would most likely just quit communication once they got paid or refunded. 

I would have far more empathy for the guest in this station and think it would be very happy to get 80% pay out, get repairs made, and move on to happy hosting. 

But no where does the policy state that CS needs to contact host for approval of refund when a major ammenity such as heat and hot water aren't available and no estimate when it will be fixed and no specific refund options offered by the host. 

I believe all host had to sign an agreement for the changes or the listing would have been suspended. 

Anyway I just like resolving issues, have been in this same station, and salvaging a 75% payout with major ammenity broken would be very good outcome. 

[Huma0]

The policy states:

Guests are not eligible for a refund if a Host is able to resolve a serious issue quickly enough to avoid any negative impact on the stay or for a minor issue, like an unemptied trash can.

But in this case, the opportunity was taken away from @Eileen0 to resolve the issue before the refund was granted, and before the stay even started. There was no evidence at that point that the guest's stay would be impacted at all, and the guest had chosen to stay despite being offered a full refund if she wanted to chancel.

The policy also states:

"Though guests will now have 72 hours from discovery to report a travel issue to Airbnb, the policy states: Before submitting a claim, whenever feasible, the guest must notify the Host and try to resolve the travel issue directly with their Host."

So, although it does not state that CS MUST consult the host, CS has gone against Airbnb's own recommendations. The guest and host were already in communication about the issue and the host was taking steps to resolve it/already offering a refund if it could not be resolved.

How one host might handle it or another one handle it is a separate point. The fact is that CS did not act according to the refund and rebooking policy (which is what we all signed up to) and that is why they told @Eileen0 that they were acting according to an 'internal' policy that they were not willing to share with her.