Refund discussion - no venting

[Brandon-And-Robert0]

Hello community!

Many of us are feeling the burden of Airbnbs extenuating circumstances policy and at this time, there is not much more any of us can add to the conversation. So let's use this community to help us come together and share ideas. Let's keep the anger and disdain on the other conversation feeds, please.

I am starting to receive requests for full refunds for stays outside of the COVID window, and I am wrestling with how to handle these requests. I want to give everything back to everyone knowing that we can help lessen the spread but that is not possible. I have mortgages and bills to pay as well.

I would love to hear what others have been doing/saying to help maintain their business, help stop the spread AND be empathetic to the guest's situation.

Here are my thoughts and I would love to hear your constructive feedback:

1. Ask the guest if they purchased travel insurance;

2. Ask them to review my calendar and find dates further in the future they would like to change to (I worry they will realize if they move dates far enough, that they can cancel with a much lower penalty);

3. Maybe offer a 50/50 refund if they don't want to find other dates?

My understanding is that the airlines are NOT giving full refunds, but allowing guests to change their dates at no cost. I feel that as the travel industry, we should all be following a similar process for consistency. 

In reality, the Airlines and AIRBNB are the ones that will receive a bailout NOT us, so I feel like this would be a fair option to us little guys.

Lets please keep this constructive and helpful so we can get through this. 

Thank you all!

[Supriya-And-Alan0]

currently, I have a situation where I have a multi month reservation (Feb-end April) and a new reservation by the same party end April - early May. They are asking for a refund for April in the first reservation and refund the second one. I have agreed in principle but I am not sure that’s fair to me. what do you all think/ are doing in a situation like this? These are students on an internship so giving credit for future use may not work and they will also potentially be cash-strapped. I feel for them. Thoughts?

[Susie0]

Unless Airbnb has changed their policy, the guest is in the driver's seat at this time sadly. Airbnb doesn't charge them in advance I believe, right? I think the charge at the beginning of each month.

[Mary419]

Anyone who is doing a fair number of bookings over one month, please send your concerns to a sales rep at Airbnb. It is vital to show them that they need a better system for this. Long term leasing terms generally provide a 30 or 60 day notice requirement which is a cushion for landlords who allow early lease termination. So at least the next month of rent can be counted on, if someone needs to leave early, meaning the dates are paid for while a landlord searches for a new tenant. Airbnb is doing more and more long term leasing and with their current setup they are earning more than a true property manager typically earns yet they are doing none of the same duties. I say this since the Airbnb service fees are usually at least 12% (normally in my area long term leasing property managers get 10% of the lease rate and their duties include advertising, showing, and documenting move in/out conditions plus collecting rent to earn that 10%) With the tourism business suddenly grinding to a halt I am finding the time to express concern about this long term issue now. In the past long stays have been a minor part of my Airbnb business but with those that I have had, it has been a problem that Airbnb does not authorize the 2nd or later monthly payment until the day it is due, leaving hosts sometimes in a precarious situation. If the credit card on file is declined for month #2 as an example, on the day it was due they send the same stock email to the host about problem collecting payment offering the host the option to cancel for no penalty... this email was designed for new bookings which have not yet arrived, which can already be maddening when they are supposed to arrive very soon, but which does not help at ALL if the person is already moved in. 

[Huma0]

@Supriya-And-Alan0 

According to the new Extenuating Circumstances policy, or at least since that policy was updated on 15th March (and still applies after the update on 19th March):

"If a reservation has already begun (the check-in has passed), this extenuating circumstance does not apply."

Therefore, in theory, your guest does not fall under extenuating circumstances for the first booking as they checked in back in February. They should therefore be refunded according to the usual long-term cancellation policy, i.e. be charged for the 30 days following cancellation/the remainder of the stay if it is shorter.

The second reservation also does not qualify for extenuating circumstances, as they currently stand, which applies to:

"Reservations for stays and Airbnb Experiences made on or before 14 March 2020, with a check-in date between 14 March 2020 and 14 April 2020, may be cancelled before check-in."

If the second stay has an official check in date at the end of April, it is not currently covered by extenuating circumstances, although this could change at any minute given Airbnb keep moving the goal posts. However, this one is not a long-term stay, so should be covered by whichever policy you chose for shorter stays, i.e. flexible, moderate or strict.

If you want to offer further refunds, that should be up to you, not Airbnb.

However, and this is a BIG however, @Susie0 is still correct in saying "the guest is in the driver's seat at this time sadly." Airbnb have already refunded two of my long-term guests according to the extenuating circumstances policy even though that policy clearly states that it does not apply to their bookings. When I spoke to Airbnb, they admitted that I was right and I was entitled to payment under the normal long-term policy, that the refunds shouldn't have been made etc. but are saying that they will do nothing about it. They are leaving it to the guest to decide, thereby breaking their own policy. They lead the guests to believe they were doing me a favour if they even paid for the nights they already stayed, so the guests have taken the rest of the money and run.

[Tristan43]

@Brandon-And-Robert0   Thank you for this post.  I am curious if you decided on something and if so how are your guests responding?  I am very torn. If I don't give credit or charge at least 1/2 we will lose our property. I have cancellations from April until September.  I know this is a scary time, but I honestly not sure what the right 'business' thing to do is. Thx!

[Ann72]

@Tristan43  I have someone booking the last week of August.  She asked if she could get a refund if air travel was cancelled.  I told her my policy would give her a 50% refund and that I would refund the balance if I was able to re-book.  That's the policy and we have to stick by it - we put it in place for a reason.  A full week of my calendar will be booked in the short high season and I can't just give the money back if she books last-minute.

[Tristan43]

Thanks or the response, I received another cancellation this morning which was booked for May.  I have a Strict refund policy and noticed the payout was very low, a fraction of the total.  I sent an email to Air bnb but have not heard back, couldn't see anywhere why this would be the case.

[Huma0]

@Ann72 

This is the policy I have tried to adopt too, but it's not working that well. Guests can see that full refunds are being given to others, so they contact Airbnb who tells them to sit tight and wait for the extenuating circumstances period to be extended. I don't know if they are doing this for bookings as late as end of August, but they are certainly doing it for bookings outside of the current extenuating circumstances, as a guest told me yesterday.

This is obviously a problem. In my case, that guest KNOWS she is going to cancel. Airbnb told her to wait until the very last moment so she would be more likely to get a full refund.  When I explained to her the issue with this, i.e. blocking dates for 1.5 month booking that she would then cancel not only meant I would lose that income, but made it impossible for me to rent the room any other way, she got angry. As far as she is concerned, she is the only one losing anything and I am profiting any which way.

This guest insists that if she cancels, I am losing 'nothing', while she would lose everything (not true, she knows she would get a partial refund). Unfortunately, most guests do not seem to understand that the host is losing when they have a room sitting unoccupied for long periods of time. My rooms do not sit in some magic la-la land where the mortgage, bills, council tax etc. pay themselves. I am not going to sack my cleaner, because I will not try to off load my own financial losses onto others if I can help it.

Although I explained to her that if I was able to rent the room, e.g. to a long-term lodger, I would be able to offer her an additional refund (on top of the partial one she is getting anyway), she is saying stuff like, if you rent the room to someone else, you are getting paid twice. Erm, no, I would refund her, as I have with many guests in the past, and we would both benefit. Unfortunately, she would rather hold my room to ransom than let me try to find solutions that mean we both face less losses.

What to do? I am tempted just to give her a full refund and be done with her. She was fine up until she spoke to Airbnb, who encouraged her towards this pretty unethical tactic, but after that became rude and aggressive. I would no longer want to host this guest even if she wanted to come.

[Ann72]

@Huma0  That is a ghastly situation.  I'm disgusted that a CS representative would tell the guest to do that.  

It sounds like you're stressed by this awful guest, and in that case I would let the full refund go, be rid of her, and clear up your calendar.  It's quite possible a wonderful person will slip into her place.  In fact, I'm almost sure of it.  Clearing the air of bad energy and karma lets good things come in.  And even though that sounds woo-woo, I say that with my business head on, because it has happened so often in my regular job and at my Airbnb.  A couple of weeks ago I got a request to book, and they wanted a discount, since it would be off-season and the middle of the week.  Even though I've never even had a booking in March before, and would have liked some money, I said no, no discounts ever.  She went away, and a couple of days later I had a couple IB the place for 5 days, which they've now extended by two weeks.  

I'm aware that even in late August I might have to give up a refund, but I thought I should set out a firm policy at the start with my guest.

[Maria1502]

My stay is located in a rural area, and I have had two cancellations so far that said they were canceling because of being notified by Airbnb that there was "an incident" in the zip code (not even a town) that prompted them to cancel.

I have no idea how to address this with Airbnb, nor do I understand why they are interfering with my bookings, especially with guests I had been communicating with regarding their concerns.

To be clear, there are not, and have been no "incidents" in the rural area where I operate, virus related or not. 

I would really appreciate any feedback on how I should handle this.  I feel pretty helpless to stop Airbnb from pre-emptively scaring away my guests, especially since I only know what's happening when guests who are canceling tell me this is what they were told, and I receive no notification from Airbnb about the communication they are sending to guests.

[Sue49]

I wish I was as confident as some that AirBnB was aiming 'to do the right thing' . I am trying to be positive but feel Airbnb must respond to hosts. In these circumstances I am prepared to play my part and take a hit.. we are all losers but hosts should not have to bear the burden entirely. This is the only form of income for many hosts.

@Maria1502 I have the same problem - two rural properties with no 'incidents' anywhere near. Both my guests & myself have received these alarmist messages and I have to question why? It is in neither parties interest. 

Now guests are trying to cancel way into the future. Like many we have a 50/50 policy but Airbnb seem to be 'pushing' guests to ask for a full refund. Why not tell them that they can request a change of date? Again I find that questionable?

I have had to make certain uncomfortable decisions but if they choose to cancel now (foe bookings outwith the Extenuating circumstances policy) normal cancellation policy applies. However my advice to them is either request a date change or to wait. On a 50/50 cancellations policy they have until 7 days prior to checkin to cancel at that same rate. Things are changing daily... & I have no idea when the time comes for their trip whether I would be in a position to host due to lockdown or it being unsafe & would therefore offer 100%.

I also raise the issue of travel insurance. If flights are cancelled they can't possibly come. If they cancel too early any chance of getting their 50% back would be lost.

I like the idea of coupons but don't see why hosts can't issue that for their own property to book into the future when things settle down.

We are all in this together and a reasonable compromise can and must be reached. I'm afraid though Airbnb need to take a lead and listen to both hosts & guests and stop being less than transparent with both. If they are indeed 'breaking laws' it would be in their interests to do so quickly!

[Susie0]

If you're asking if your ideas are good for Airbnb to adopt as policies, YES. Hopefully if Covid continues they will consider the fact that many hosts could go bankrupt.

[Mark3170]

I had to cancel my booking due to all the mess surrounding the coronavirus. I booked it before the march for the first week in August. Now everything is in chaos and it would be crazy to try to make that trip with the airlines canceling flights and the prospect of being quarantined. So i believe under the circumstances I should be getting all if not most of my refund back. None of us foreseen this, and the circumstances are dire. I can't even get a response to the massages I've left. Who would I talk to about this matter?  

[Monica1645]

Hello Mark, I need also directions or suggestions to solve my problem.
I am very disappointed with Airbnb and disagree strongly with them.
I am from Florence, Italy and I booked an apartment in The Hague, Netherlands for a whole month from mid May on. No reimbursement condition.
By late February Coronavirus outbroke strongly in Italy and I thought it will be lasting for a long time and lockdown was starting. I tought was no right to keep the reservation waiting for a policy from Airbnb and I contact via whatsapp the host asking to cancel and reimbursement. He accepted the cancellation and no claim or complain or saying anything else about reimbursement. On the contrary I was encouraged to do so which I did on March, 3rd. . At this time I had already asked a reimbursement using the Resolution Center which is pending until now.
Airbnb install its extenuating policy on March, 9th
Meanwhile I have talked to the host asking him if the host has received money from Airbnb and he said not but if does he will reimburse me. Time went by and before yesterday I wrote to Airbnb asking for a position. They replied to me saying they paid the host and because my cancellation was on March, 3rd and their policy was in placed on March, 9th I have no rights and suggested to contact their Resolution Center to ask reimbursement conflict which I had already done on March,4th and it is still pending and the host. Also they say the host has already been paid and they can not return the money to me washing their hands.
And yesterday I sent a message to the host in Airbnb site and he answered me he will not return the money.
I do not what to do I was mislead by the host.  I can prove it but Airbnb do not care because all conversation was by whatsapp and they do not consider it and they onle say my cancellation is not covered by their policy.
Sorry it is a long explanation. I appreciate any suggestion that could help me get my money back because I am an old man and this money will help me a lot.
Thanks in advance and be safe.

[Sarah977]

@Monica1645  I'm sorry you lost this money. It's terrible for a host to tell you they will refund your money and then not do so. But I don't understand why you spoke to the host about a refund on Whatsapp. All communication between hosts and guests should be done on the Airbnb messaging system. I think that is stated somewhere on both the host and guest side. If you had done that, Airbnb would have a record of the host saying he would refund you and you might have a chance of getting the money, or at least some of it, back. But right now, it's just your word against the host's that he told you he's refund. How would Airbnb know who's telling the truth?