Refund discussion - no venting

Refund discussion - no venting

Hello community!

 

Many of us are feeling the burden of Airbnbs extenuating circumstances policy and at this time, there is not much more any of us can add to the conversation. So let's use this community to help us come together and share ideas. Let's keep the anger and disdain on the other conversation feeds, please.

 

I am starting to receive requests for full refunds for stays outside of the COVID window, and I am wrestling with how to handle these requests. I want to give everything back to everyone knowing that we can help lessen the spread but that is not possible. I have mortgages and bills to pay as well.

 

I would love to hear what others have been doing/saying to help maintain their business, help stop the spread AND be empathetic to the guest's situation.

 

Here are my thoughts and I would love to hear your constructive feedback:

1. Ask the guest if they purchased travel insurance;

2. Ask them to review my calendar and find dates further in the future they would like to change to (I worry they will realize if they move dates far enough, that they can cancel with a much lower penalty);

3. Maybe offer a 50/50 refund if they don't want to find other dates?

 

My understanding is that the airlines are NOT giving full refunds, but allowing guests to change their dates at no cost. I feel that as the travel industry, we should all be following a similar process for consistency. 

In reality, the Airlines and AIRBNB are the ones that will receive a bailout NOT us, so I feel like this would be a fair option to us little guys.

 

Lets please keep this constructive and helpful so we can get through this. 

Thank you all!

185 Replies 185

@Sarah977 doesn’t matter if it has. The language is not clear. 

Zara87
Level 2
California, United States

It is clear to me.

Clear to me also. No reasonable explanation why a Host gets to keep money when the guest has never stepped foot on the property under this pandemic circumstance. 

If your reservation falls under a recognised extenuating circumstance, you’ll be notified that your reservation qualifies for a penalty-free cancellation, and you’ll get a full refund if you’re a guest.

@Rodney11 That wasn't in the original EC text, but nice try.

@Juan63

Here's the link to the EC every AirBnB host signed up for.

https://www.airbnb.ca/help/article/1320/what-if-i-need-to-cancel-because-of-an-emergency-or-unavoida...

See the paragraph entitled "What to do next". This is the exact text I copy and pasted.

I don't know how much clearer it can be.

So much of this they are not standing by is what causes the issue. They support the guest but not the host. I am not allowed to cancel the guest without fees and a

strong penalty even if its in advance. 

 

As a guest, I haven’t received my refund on a property I booked that’s eligible for extenuating circumstances.   I was written to by a manager who told me I would be getting a full refund in 5-15 business days.  Will I have to wait weeks to get it or will I not receive it at all?

@Vicki421  You mean the manager of the property? If you don't see that the reservation has been cancelled, the manager is lying to you. He would need to cancel it in order for you to receive a refund. Or did you cancel it yourself, and if not, why not?

As far as the timeline for refunds, though, that sounds about right.

No, a manager of Airbnb told me this.  Do you know how I access Live Chat w/Airbnb?  I want to at least receive a credit as I need to book something soon for next month.  Btw, I did cancel myself, not the host.

@Vicki421 There's no live chat, really. You can go to the Help section on the Airbnb site and follow the prompts and drop down boxes until you get to a message box. They're swamped right now, so you may have to wait for a reply. Or you can contact them through their Twitter account. If you are looking to book another Airbnb, they might just apply the refund amount to another listing, rather than having to wait for a refund.

Quite agree with this! Due to the COVID government lockdown starting on Thurs night we had to leave Tuesday morning 24/03/2020. We had only used 2ex9 nights of our original booking (HMJZX255BT, 8037.17ZAR). As such, I would want to be reimbursed for the days I did not use - these are circumstances beyond my control. I did communicate with the host about this issue and she directed me to Airbnb who have replied that "...an alteration should've been solicited from [on?] your behalf because you'd receive a refund for the nights not spent in the listing, but since the checkout time and date has passed the system no longer will allow an alteration to be processed. In this case, refunds for nights not spent are up to the host’s discretion." If I understand this the host did not timeously consider our situation and ensure that input is made to Airbnb such that a refund would be possible?

 

Might I add, I have been understanding with my host as we had no hot water for night 1 and there was a sewage problem which had not been attended to. In fact, I had to contact the host a number of times to report on the progress ie no hot water despite the new geyser installed and the sewage problem not solved (which eventually was). As such, I would expect similar understanding from Airbnb and the host around reimbursement. As an example of ethical business practice, Virgin Active is not charging gym fees for the months that we cannot train due to COVID lockdowns-I would expect the same ethical standards from Airbnb.

I did the same, I refunded 100% no matter which company the lead came from and it hurts me and my staff that takes care of the house.  I will spend the next 1.5 years to 2 years trying to make up for lost income I am sure, but it was not my wish to take anyone's hard earned money for a vacation they could not have.  I will have to say I was actually surprised that there were many who did not refund and the customers I was able to push out to another date were  surprised grateful at other companies.

 

 I do agree with Airbnb's ethical position in this matter, Likely those companies that did not refund for a "vacation never had" will not receive future business from those travelers and Airbnb will.

 

However, the comments about their loyalty leaning toward the travelers versus the hosts is true. I feel on several occasions I have been told they cannot do the right thing because of the "inflexibility of the system".  I went a week and a half and did have access to my Host page and could not respond directly through email. The Airbnb reps and techs struggled to help me though it.  Once we finally got in I asked them to change the dings for not responding since I had no access but was told "we can't make those changes" the system won't let us.  For this reason,  I have been dinged when I should not have on several occasions and when I call to get them to correct it they can't because they can't make any adjustments to "the system".   This has kept me from reaching Super Host status and now if I am reading right, the grant cancellation money for those in need will only be offered to Super Hosts.  I take good care of my visitors and usually get rated 5 out of 5 but I do not get that same care from Airbnb who dings me over things I cannot control.  That said, I hope and pray that our losses prove to help keep people well.  Maybe if we look at it as our sacrifices are saving lives it won't hurt so much. 

I agree fully that guests should be partially or fully refunded. My only issue is that should be between the guest and the owner. Two of the people I refunded myself (they were not within the AirBnB dates), already have booked with me at a later date. They appreciate my gesture and it helps me later on.

 

But when AirBnB has an automatic full refund, the y thank AirBnB and don't feel obliged to book with me later. One guest told me he got a credit from AirBnB to book later - but not necessarily with me. That is the issue; not that I'm angry for losing $15,000 in pre-paid bookings.

@Kath9

Hey Kath9,

 

I appreciate your view here and I can see you did some work to get the policy language on 3 30 2020. On that day, you're right, the policy for extenuating circumstances contained the language "Epidemic disease or illness ". Exactly as you said.

 

The thing is, I ( and I would bet you, as well) didn't sign up as a host in March 2020, but actually well before that.

 

The URL that existed on that day for that policy on their site, is this one:

https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/1320/

 

This one was there as well, and didn't change between 3 1 2020 and 3 17 2020:

https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/1320/what-if-i-need-to-cancel-because-of-an-emergency-or-unavoid...

 

 

Something did happen to that policy, however, between 11 8 2019 and 3 1 2020. This is what that first site said on 11 8 2019:

 

"Endemic disease or illness that suddenly affects a region or an entire group of people. This doesn’t include existing diseases that are associated with an area—for example, malaria in Thailand or dengue fever in Hawaii.

Travel restrictions imposed by a government, law enforcement agency, or military that restrict travel to or from the listing or experience location."

 

 

Today, on the site, this is what that policy says: ( 6 18 2020):

 

"Epidemic disease or illness that suddenly affects a region or an entire group of people. This doesn’t include existing diseases that are associated with an area—for example, malaria in Thailand or dengue fever in Hawaii. Any updates to our policy regarding the outbreak of a disease, and the scope of policy application, will be determined based on announcements by the World Health Organization and local authorities.

Travel restrictions imposed by a government, law enforcement agency, or military that restrict travel to or from the listing or experience location."

 

Same thing for the shorter URL: https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/1320/ (6 18 2020):

 

"Epidemic disease or illness that suddenly affects a region or an entire group of people. This doesn’t include existing diseases that are associated with an area—for example, malaria in Thailand or dengue fever in Hawaii. Any updates to our policy regarding the outbreak of a disease, and the scope of policy application, will be determined based on announcements by the World Health Organization and local authorities.

Travel restrictions imposed by a government, law enforcement agency, or military that restrict travel to or from the listing or experience location."

 

There are two noteworthy things about the shorter URL:

 

1. It CHANGES to the longer one right now, when you enter it into a browser, but not immediately...so...if you choose the short version, today at least...you end up with the longer one. AND....

 

2. The Shorter url, https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/1320/ , didn't even exist before Mid March, 2018. But at least from around 3 18 20 to now, it does, except for now it POINTS TO the longer one.

 

How do we know all this? The internet archive, AKA, the WAYBACK machine, which records the history of the internet:

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20191108153338/https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/1320/what-if-i-need-t...

"Saved 34 times between February 8, 2018 and June 11, 2020".

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20200101000000*/https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/1320

 

“Saved 8 times between March 18, 2020 and June 6, 2020".

 

What difference does all that make? Well, because it raised questions about the policy and transparency with AirBnB.

 

OH, and BTW, there is DEFINITELY a difference between an ENDEMIC DISEASE and and EPIDEMIC DISEASE OR ILLNESS. See this:

https://intermountainhealthcare.org/blogs/topics/live-well/2020/04/whats-the-difference-between-a-pa...

 

"Let’s start with basic definitions:

AN EPIDEMIC is a disease that affects a large number of people within a community, population, or region.
A PANDEMIC is an epidemic that’s spread over multiple countries or continents.
ENDEMIC is something that belongs to a particular people or country."


Also:

"Epidemic vs. Pandemic

A simple way to know the difference between an epidemic and a pandemic is to remember the “P” in pandemic, which means a pandemic has a passport. A pandemic is an epidemic that travels.

 

Epidemic vs. Endemic

But what’s the difference between epidemic and endemic? An epidemic is actively spreading; new cases of the disease substantially exceed what is expected. More broadly, it’s used to describe any problem that’s out of control, such as “the opioid epidemic.” An epidemic is often localized to a region, but the number of those infected in that region is significantly higher than normal. For example, when COVID-19 was limited to Wuhan, China, it was an epidemic. The geographical spread turned it into a pandemic.

Endemics, on the other hand, are a constant presence in a specific location. Malaria is endemic to parts of Africa. Ice is endemic to Antarctica.

 

For some reason, without telling us about it, the policy changed and a new URL appeared, which didn't exist before, right between November 2019 and March 2020. This involved changing the language from AN ENDEMIC (which we signed on for, as you said) and AN EPIDEMIC (or a PANDEMIC), which we didn’t sign up for.

 

None of this gets into the refunds before we were notified, either, but that’s been discussed ad nauseam.

 

So….Why did they change the policy from ENDEMIC to EPIDEMIC without telling us?

 

I think there must be a reason, don’t you?

 

Thanks and hope this helps create some solutions that will lead to greater togetherness through openness and transparency from here on; at least we can hope. 🙂

 

Thanks!

 

Mark.