Refund discussion - no venting

[Brandon-And-Robert0]

Hello community!

Many of us are feeling the burden of Airbnbs extenuating circumstances policy and at this time, there is not much more any of us can add to the conversation. So let's use this community to help us come together and share ideas. Let's keep the anger and disdain on the other conversation feeds, please.

I am starting to receive requests for full refunds for stays outside of the COVID window, and I am wrestling with how to handle these requests. I want to give everything back to everyone knowing that we can help lessen the spread but that is not possible. I have mortgages and bills to pay as well.

I would love to hear what others have been doing/saying to help maintain their business, help stop the spread AND be empathetic to the guest's situation.

Here are my thoughts and I would love to hear your constructive feedback:

1. Ask the guest if they purchased travel insurance;

2. Ask them to review my calendar and find dates further in the future they would like to change to (I worry they will realize if they move dates far enough, that they can cancel with a much lower penalty);

3. Maybe offer a 50/50 refund if they don't want to find other dates?

My understanding is that the airlines are NOT giving full refunds, but allowing guests to change their dates at no cost. I feel that as the travel industry, we should all be following a similar process for consistency. 

In reality, the Airlines and AIRBNB are the ones that will receive a bailout NOT us, so I feel like this would be a fair option to us little guys.

Lets please keep this constructive and helpful so we can get through this. 

Thank you all!

[Brad580]

Thanks for the information for CFAR; I'll be sure to look into it. We obviously can't depend on everyone to always "do what's right".  I'm sure a lot goes into it, and the expense doesn't go way, you're right... however it doesn't mean those you don't provide that experience to should have to pay for it.  If a 'voluntary' guest cancellation prevented you from renting to someone else, absolutely they should have liability, but when reasons beyond everyone's control... it's a bit different. There are great idea's for hosts offering future credits, fair enough, but not all do this.  That's where my problem lies.  Greed is unwillingness to negotiate the win/win.  
I would 100% have stayed at the places I booked at a later date, even when they were more expensive in peak seasons, HAD I been refunded in full (or perhaps credit offered, for the simple fact they would be showing willingness to be decent)...but not now.  So, long term will be impacted by decisions made today.

[Mark3170]

You said it best!

[Jessica-and-Henry0]

Flights are being cancelled and planes have been grounded all around the world..... borders are closed and cities are in lockdown..... people I know that had travel plans and had flights for up till end of April have all recieved full refunds, even for nonrefundable tickets once the airlines officially acknowledged the travel ban and announced all flights up to a certain date have been/will be cancelled. More or less the same for all nonrefundable hotel bookings and tours/day trips. 

I myself am waiting for my May travel dates to be included in the cancel w/ full refund scope by the airline.

People that cancelled before the announcement had to pay a cancellation fee. And cancellation fees were NOT retroactively given back. 

Depending on timing and the circumstance, IMO, there is (and should be) a difference in how things are handled. But if the travel dates are specifically within an offical travel ban or lockdown period, then may it be flights, hotel bookings, an Airbnb stay or car rental, it becomes an extenuating circumstance (force majeure) and a full refund should be issued. 

[Cabo-Platinum0]

Wow!  Amazing people weighing in here - very impressive to see the anger, but still stay on a level-headed playing field.  

@Brandon-And-Robert0 really appreciate you setting the tone here.  Valuable insight.  Interested to know more about Airbnb receiving a bailout.  Is that true?  I actually heard they initially were refunding guest's money, but retaining 25% as a "future credit," thus creating a short-term cash grab.  And as we all know with gift cards and credits, only 50% to 70% get used..... Need to know if Bailout is real - this would completely tip the scales and make this entire current scenario that has been instilled a total slap in our faces.  

@Kathryn440 You hit the nail on the head!  We have to be amicable.  There is no fairness to Airbnb issuing all of the money back to the guests - especially when their arrival is not until May.  Airbnb has a crystal ball and knows that travel will still be suspended into May?  I'm not saying it won't, I'm just saying to be fair, let's take this one step at a time and prioritize people in April.... we just had 2 COVID cancellations in May and when I tried to open a support ticket to understand what happended, Airbnb automatically closed the ticket without a reply.  

My SOLUTION here is as follows: 

- offer guests a full credit towards future dates.  This allows us to keep funds so we can pay mortgages and maintain our listings.  Truth be told, the same dates could have been rented by someone else who might have actually come and fulfilled their obligation.  

- if guests choose not to take the credit, then provide them with 50% of funds paid.  That way, everyone wins.  

@Kath9 states that we have to have an industry standard.  I had travel plans with the family next week to Disney World.  So far the airline, rental car, hotel and disney world have all offered me future credit.  So why does Airbnb get to look like the hero by pulling money out of our pockets.  Seems like it should be a decision made by our partnership (Airbnb and Hosts). 

[Virgil14]

Before I logged onto this thread I sent this reply to a guest this morning. ISide note:  have been on hold with Airbnb for 1:52 minutes as of now to run this idea by them and I have also sent this reply to support. I'm doing other things as I wait but the on-hold music is getting past my tolerance 😏. Any thoughts on this idea?

Hello ———,

I completely understand the need to cancel due to CV19. This is the fault of no one. I hope we can come to a fair and reasonable solution. As you may know Airbnb has instituted the “Extenuating Circumstances Policy” which dictates a refund of 100% for stays through April 14. Your stay would be outside of the ECP and would fall under the policy for Easy St which is a 50% refund. If you are willing to accept a 50% refund I am willing to discount you for a future stay by 50%. This would apply for up to a year from now through April 26, 2021. You would need to book at the regular rate and I could the manually refund the 50%. As a host I’m trying to navigate through this time and manage expenses having lost a substantial amount of revenue in March, April, and beyond. We don’t know how long the various “shelter in place” edicts will remain in place. I hope we can “meet halfway” in regards to a solution which will allow me to maintain a portion of revenue through this difficult time and also offer you the opportunity to enjoy Easy St at a future date at a 50% discount. Please let me know your thoughts to this proposed solution.

Update: just heard from Airbnb support via message and they said this: 

Hi Virgil, this is Cristina from Airbnb Customer Support.

Please let us know if your G accept your offer, alternatively you can tell her to contact us directly, and we can see if there are any other solution we can offer her in a chance to meet you both halfway.


Thanks for contacting us, please do not hesitate to do it again should you need any more assistance in this or any other matter.


Stay safe.

Ok, I'll update this when I have more...

[Kenney1]

Delta is allowing ecredits for up to a year though. 

My problem and although Airbnb and hosts may not like it that I booked my travel well in advance of March 14 for two weeks in May and June in two different host places. The only response I get from Airbnb is that they are allowing refunds up for trips booked by March 14 but only for travel  that occurs by April 14. this pandemic will be nowhere near being finished by then.  Other than that any negotiations regarding refunds are between the patron and the host. I have been a loyal customer of Airbnb for years and always appreciated every host who has allowed me to stay at their amazing properties. That said, posting an extenuating circumstances policy on March 19 which predates most of the current scientific data about the pandemic and only goes so far as to remedy situations booked only  by March 14 with stays occurring by April 14 is adequate. I had one host that was so generous that she allowed an ecredit for me for me to use within a certain amount of time after April 14. That shows me that the host has the authority to alter their cancellation policies as they see fit especially in light of this global pandemic. It also shows me without ever meeting this person what kind of human being she is. In that moment, the host regained my trust in the system as we worked together as individuals to do what is right. The other host has not yet made such an attempt and again I have spent thousands on these stays. I truly enjoy Airbnb over a typical hotel to support host’s properties as if they were my own home. If we look at any major company such as Delta, they are offering unprecedented refunds and  ecredits that last an entire year. I am confused as to why Airbnb will not do the same thing for its valued customers. We are dealing with an unprecedented pandemic, and the mayor of Atlanta in which I live has just enacted a 14 day quarantine for everyone to stay at home to try to flatten the curve a bit to help with this disease. As you’re probably aware the CDC is located in Atlanta, and the many epidemiologists and scientists that I know personally do not think this pandemic will get truly be handled until late summer or early fall. If Airbnb does not change it’s extenuating circumstances policy, your businesses will undoubtedly suffer. I am a member of numerous platforms, and I can tell you that hundreds of thousands of Airbnb users are caught in the same situation I am in and are I unpleased patrons at this point. I thoroughly enjoy getting to stay at your properties all around the world, and I do not want to do anything to jeopardize that, but when I feel my 50% of my money which in this case is quite a lot under such dire circumstances the company has as unrelenting stance of a one size fits all model when it comes to rectifying these situations. Through my work, I have many connections through many news outlets, legislatures, and Congress. I am giving Airbnb one more week to rectify the matter, and then I will take it upon myself with the tens of thousands of other victims to seek a remedy. I am truly willing to meet halfway. I think if I hosts were to agree to give an ecredit that would make it more palatable by users than just keeping 50% of the costs. As owners, I appreciate you all listening to me as a consumer even if you disagree. You provide a tremendous value and experiences to people like me, my family, my colleagues, and my friends who can choose to use our money elsewhere. I have developed long lasting friendships with hosts in which I have stayed at their properties over the years. You all are good people. I am just asking that you revisit the 50% refund rule that Airbnb says is within your power regarding cancellation policies that were never written to encompass such a pandemic event. Again, if a patron fails to contact the host regarding a cancellation, I strongly feel the host should be entitled to keep 100% of the cost. We all have to play our part in making sure that systems works to both the advantage of the patron and the host. I would encourage you to reach out to CNN via their website and discuss your concerns with them. If enough of us do that, I can assure you it will get their attention, and they will run a story. 

State healthy,

Dr. Kenney **

[personal details hidden]

[Kristin108]

@Kenney1 ,

I think to have failed to see the most important factor here...

My vacation rental business is my ONLY income!

I have a 100 year old farm with multiple homes and 'Glamping' on the property.

I was looking at my best year ever! So my savings went to making some much needed repairs. I spent the funds knowing that I had bookings... Now those excess funds are gone.

As I operate from hand to mouth most months... Without my vacation rental income, I am facing some extreme financial hardship. 

A bail out won't feed my horses! Sure, I could sell or euthanize my only 'family' and downsize, but selling a 67 acer farm could take years!

I am skilled at many levels, and could develop another business. Although my focus have been in the travel industry for the last 25 years. I am also 62 years old, and the farm wont run itself!

The $3000. I lost this month is crippling! If it continues... I'm not sure where I will be.

Refunding guests money that they have already paid out... After they were well aware and agreed to my refund policies when they booked is nuts!

I ALWAYS get CFAR insurance when I travel... 

Guests requesting full refunds, need to think again!

[Sarah977]

@Kristin108 I'm sorry that this has been a big financial blow for you, but "I was looking at my best year ever! So my savings went to making some much needed repairs. I spent the funds knowing that I had bookings..." is exactly the problem.

It's that old saying "Don't count your chickens before they're hatched." Spending savings on things, on the promise of getting paid more in the future, just isn't good business sense. People need to set aside enough savings to get by for a couple of months, if need be, (anything can happen, not just a pandemic- you could have an accident and not be able to host for a couple of months while you heal) then have another fund for needed repairs and upgrades, not dig into the only financial cushion you have, in anticipation of having more money roll in as planned.

[Kristin108]

@Sarah977 You may be right... But I have insurance that covers me if I have an accident... 

As to setting aside savings.... Ha ha...I guess you have never owned a 67 acer farm with 100 year old structures...

Also, I ask that you please be careful what you say, when you don't fully understand the circumstances... There are other factors at play here!

[Sarah977]

@Kristin108  Actually I have owned hundred year old structures before, and lived on large acre farms which required constant work and maintainance and am well aware of the constant moneysuck in repairs and upgrading to modern standards, etc. You shouldn't make presumptions, either :-))

[Kristin108]

@Sarah977 ,

You sound like a cool person!

I don't mind the money suck... As I get to live here!

And thank god I have endless miles of private trails right from my door...

[Kenney1]

I completely understand everyone’s point. I think we all are frustrated because we all are having to make some sort of sacrifice because of this virus. What hurts one neighbor ultimately hurts me as their neighbor. I surely hope that as intelligent individuals we could come to some compromise such as giving ecredits to customers. That way, the owner of the Airbnb would not be out the money, and the vacationer could just take the vacation at a later point in time. This certainly would not fix everyone’s problem, but at least it would be one solution offered. I agree with some of the other commentators. People don’t always know what other people are going through. Booking a vacation may sound like someone has additional money to burn, but we have no idea that it might’ve taken that person 15 years to save up enough money to go on that vacation. That is why we have to be cautious about judgments of one another. But simply taking 50% of someone’s money and only giving them the other 50% as a refund is wrong. It would be different if the vacationer changed his mind or something else happened but in the event of a pandemic that affects the entire world. We are talking about something that is drastically life altering for many. The refund policy we signed did not allude to anything on the level of a pandemic. I can promise you that such a document would lose in court every time if that argument was to be made by opposing counsel.

[Kristin108]

@Kenney1 ,

I am curious how you are so sure about losing in court?

I am offering guests who request to cancel outside the current dates set by Airbnb the option to reschedule up to 24 months in future. I am also offering guest an additional free night stay for bookings of more than 3 nights. (Most guests who stay at the farm say that they wish they had stayed longer).

I am not however, offering full refunds for trips outside the current dates set by airbnb.

If they chose to cancel, that is on them. If people are so concerned about their losses, it is up to them to read my booking policies and purchase the necessary insurance, as I now do.

I lost over 12K due to canceled equestrian events and restricted travel during the foot and mouth epidemic in the UK and Ireland! I learned my lesson then about trip insurance!

I did not lose on a booking during the 9-11 airline shutdowns from a guest/client who was traveling from the US to Ireland. As they were serious and rebooked on the first available flight out of Boston to Shannon!

[Elizabeth16]

I host long term stays only.  I had 3 guests who were doing internships in my city who all left within a week of each other (mid March) because their companies told them to either terminate or go home and telecommute.  They chose to go to their real homes for the COVID duration. Which is fine.

I did alterations from my end of the platform so they were awarded a refund so they would only be charged for how long they'd stayed.

I think the balance of their stay should be covered in that 25% refund of cancellations. The first item Chesky covered in this talk. 

Do you? If so, how can I get that to the attention of Airbnb? I called and talked to a customer service rep but he could not change the res to a cancellation from his end as it was a done deal. 

Thanks for any suggestions.

[Lyle-and-Vivian0]

Our input as asked for:

1) We have posted on our listing that guests need to book with a credit card that includes trip cancellation insurance or purchase it, because we are not an insurance company...regardless of reason for cancellation. Guests always have the option to have cancellation insurance, whereas, there is no such insurance available to hosts. We've recommended that Airbnb get into the insurance business and maybe we pay an extra 1% for our booking fee to cover cancellations. Then we wouldn't even need a cancellation policy or wrestle with trying to uphold it in any circumstance.

Also, guests could collect insurance AND whatever our cancellation policy permits.

If an insurance company doesn't insure a reason for cancelling, we as hosts should not have to. Again, we cannot be treated as insurance companies for any reason.

2)  We cannot afford these full refundd. As real as the risk is for people not being able to travel and losing their money...so is the risk of hosts losing their properties, which will be as critical for the platform as well. None of this is guests or hosts fault so at the very most 50/50 is fair.

The extenuating circumstances should be 50/50 as in this case it is neither fault, in other illness circumstances it's not the hosts fault either. 50/50 is still tough, however, a lot more fair than a full refund to guests. They would also know this when they book... so no complaining. If a reason for cancellation is not covered by insurance there is no reason us hosts should be expected to take the financial hit.

3) We have offered to change dates of stays, however, we ask them for their preferred dates and if available, we block them manually. This way there is no risk of the cancellation policy being abused, that you mentioned. If not available we find dates that will work for both of us and we make it available as long as we own our properties. 

Hope this is helpful. We are struggling to and it doesn't matter if a host has 1 property or many. We are all valuable and have the right to host the way we choose and should not be discriminated against for either choice, as the CEO has done with the $5000 grant being made available to help only a specific group of hosts. Very disappointing to the rest of the hosts not considered as important, even tho their expenses are higher and they have more risk.