Airbnb's new direction.

[Robin4]

I took part in one of the hosting workshop meetings this morning, and I don't envy the job of the moderators in setting up this Host Advisory Board which is being so vigorously touted.

I would say, the reaction from the group was.....cool. We would love to see it happen, it sounds good but, we have been down this path before.

Each year since I have been associated with Airbnb the CEO comes out with one of these 'hosting path to glory' statements which seems to be designed to quell unrest amongst the ranks. We take the company at his word and wait for the promised assistance, support and benefits......and we wait.....and we wait! But each year we see our job as hosts become more difficult, less transparent, more of our hosting tools disappear and meaningful support being harder to get.

* Once upon a time I used to see a picture of every guest before they booked, even if it was simply an enquiry. To use the Airbnb platform guests had to supply an image identifiable with a current drivers licence or passport. A guest can get away with a dog on the beach, or a favourite pot plant, or even a generic grey alphabet letter in a circle these days.

* I used to be able to log-on and from the drop down menu go straight to my inbox to respond to a message. I now have to access 'Manage Listings' and from there in the toolbar, go to my inbox!

* All the information relating to a booking used to be on the message page. Payment details top left, then guest photo, address and contact details, then a calendar to see how the booking related to others in that month bottom left with the message stream on the right......no scrolling between different pages........

Oh to have the simplicity and downright user friendliness of that page again. Nobody that I am aware of asked for that format to be changed, it worked well.....that was probably its problem! 

* My statistics used to give me an accurate way of tracking my hosting progress. My 'Views' page showed me not just how many views I had in the past 30 days but, also how many bookings and on what days those bookings were  made.....

I used to be able to accurately track my star ratings. I could see how many stars I had in each category at a glance just by clicking an arrow in that category.....

These tools which were valuable to me as a host have been taken away and I am now bombarded with promotional tips on every aspect of my listing that are designed to send me bankrupt in order to satisfy Airbnb's algorithm.......

 I can see a Host Advisory Board as a good thing if it can be a place where hosts feedback can be gathered, correlated and suggestions put to the company that will be acted on instead of simply being ignored as they have been in the past. Surely management must see why we are not leaping out of our skins with enthusiasm.......This is a path well traveled!

We have had lots of words, now lets see if Mr Chesky is going to be true to his word this time!

As the Jeep ad says....'I'm in'..... but I wish the moderators luck, turning the ship around and getting hosts on board is going to be a tall order! We are going to want to see some action this time!

Cheers........Rob

[Anna9170]

.@Ute42  Ute, your NO is my favorite music on this forum.😎😍
Frankly speaking, people like you can change something. But, I understand you very well that you want to have just an official relationship with this platform, without any personal, and I want to support you in any choice.

[Anna9170]

@Melodie-And-John0  I am shocked and so glad that you are alive and well!! 😊 It will be your second Birthday, right? 💃

[Melodie-And-John0]

@Anna9170 , thank you!  Its good to be able to talk about it without picking the splinters out of my gourd!  I've had a bunch of second birthdays through the decades, must be its not my time yet, (thank god)!  

[Melodie-And-John0]

Holy crap @Robin4 , that's a pain in the 4th point of contact!  Details matter and your the master of the detail (might have something to do with your lifelong trade as an engineer) !  I'm also sure you could sit at the table (virtual or real) with just about anyone and get to the bottom of the issue.  Your also correct, hosts aren't worried about everyone's issues like CP was hired to manage (4 million or so), they are very concerned with the one that is about to become their issue in the near future or now and might be standing right in front of us wanting answers now not later and rightfully so for both host and guest. 

Drilling down on the things that will address issues for the many at the same time not leaving the odd ones like 2 Mount Barkers a long ways away from each other mucking up a search is what could make this new focus group make Airbnb better for all.  

BTW, Its a no brainer that hosts should be able to offer a refund of whatever size up to the amount they were to be paid or were paid if they wish- if accepted by the guest, the booking dates unblocked immediately.   That seams like a reasonable thing and something that empowers hosts to care for customers, lets make that happen @Catherine-Powell , have an awesome day!  JR  

[Robin4]

@Melodie-And-John0 

Yeah John, that's the way I see it. We can either stick our heads in the sand and say "Heard it all before stop wasting yours and our time"....or we can say, "Okay put your resources where your mouth is, prove that this is important to you"......we are going to be no worse off! On one hand, hindsight might let us chalk this up to a re-run of past years or, we might actually get somewhere this time.

I would urge hosts to get on board and see where this magical mystery tour takes us. Past experience tells us there is a sting in the tail for us, just as there will be with these TOS updates we either approve by January 20, 2021....... or leave the platform. The changes are lengthy and will take a lot of time to digest but from those that I have read so far, these changes are simply more pain for hosts and an easier route to rort the system for guests!

Just have a look at the changes to the Disability clause!

Disability

• Airbnb hosts may not:
  • Decline a guest based on any actual or perceived disability.
  • Impose any different terms or conditions based on the fact that the guest has a disability.
  • Substitute their own judgment about whether a unit meets the needs of a guest with a disability for that of the prospective guest.
  • Inquire about the existence or severity of a guest’s disability, or the means used to accommodate any disability. If, however, a potential guest raises his or her disability, a host may, and should, discuss with the potential guest whether the listing meets the potential guest’s needs.
  • Prohibit or limit the use of mobility devices.
  • Charge more in fees for guests with disabilities, including pet fees when the guest has an assistance animal (such as a service or emotional­ support animal) because of the disability.
  • Post any listing or make any statement that discourages or indicates a preference for or against any guest on account of the fact that the guest has a disability.
  • Refuse to communicate with guests through accessible means that are available, including relay operators (for people with hearing impairments) and e-mail (for people with vision impairments using screen readers).
  • Refuse to provide reasonable accommodations, including flexibility when guests with disabilities request modest changes in your house rules, such as bringing an assistance animal that is necessary because of the disability, or using an available parking space near the unit. When a guest requests such an accommodation, the host and the guest should engage in a dialogue to explore mutually agreeable ways to ensure the unit meets the guest’s needs.

• Airbnb hosts may:
  • Provide factually accurate information about the unit’s accessibility features (or lack of them), allowing for guests with disabilities to assess for themselves whether the unit is appropriate to their individual needs.

* 

My listing maybe totally unsuitable to accommodate a 25 stone 2 lb (160Kg) female who may be travelling with 2 chihuahua dogs but.....I may not decline her reservation. I am compelled to accept it! I am not allowed to offer a perceived judgement on whether my listing is suitable. I would not even be able to ask for information about the guests disability. I would only be allowed to accept the booking and the subsequent flack and damage that may come from it.

My Public Liability would go through the roof, in fact I would be uninsurable because I am accepting what the insurance company would define as an unacceptable risk!

The changes to the Terms Of Service are designed for one thing only.....to weaken a hosts rights.

John I can see no good coming from these new company 'incentives'......but we are compelled to accept them!

Cheers.........Rob

@Debra300   @Fred13   @Anna9170   @Sarah977  @Super47   @Ian-And-Anne Marie0  @Ute42 

[Melodie-And-John0]

@Robin4 , I guess Im gonna have to do some reading, Im already not liking the part about pets in the disability section.   No non human animals at Bearpath Lodging,  my dog (who is never allowed into guest areas) would have a schnitz fitz  from the moment someone enters and nobody would get a minutes sleep.  I'm a huge proponent of ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act), it was intended to empower individuals with disabilities not harm and punish those that currently don't have a disability.   How about the rights and TOS of the guests in the suite above our Access Suite?   Can they require us to refund those guests because they couldn't sleep due to the barking?   What if the next guest comes in and says their canine allergies have put them into a full blown asthma attack and can't possibly stay in that space, people with those issues can have reactions to the tiniest exposures, if we say the space has been pet free and they get sick from particulates left by the last guests Mastiff, more than my Superhost Status is at play.  

If the new direction includes overriding reasonable house rules and guests can require us to change them on demand without any discussion prior, we might have a problem!   Keeping in theme with the thread, implications of the proposed changes should be on hold until the the new boards are set up and functioning.  Then ideas like certifying that folks requesting to bring a non human animal in our home a the very least be held responsible to  ensure their non paying companion wont disrupt the household in a way that other guests (and host family) would be disadvantaged.  

If a dog chews up one of our 200 year old doors or moldings or pee's on our antique Persian- oriental carpets, my wife might disable and sever the Airbnb contract herself and Airbnb can explain to bookings on the calendar why Bearpath Lodging no longer accepts Airbnb bookings.  These are reasonable concerns worthy of a deeper discussions before regrets and the laws of unintended consequences kick in, Be well, JR

[Robin4]

@Melodie-And-John0 

John, mate, that is just one small corner, one little snippet of the TOS changes. Realistically it will take weeks of comparison to see the rabbit warren of changes.

I was astute enough to download a hard copy of the TOS each time a change was made so, I have a reference between old and new. If you try to do the same John, all that will be visible to you is post October 30th TOS.....what we have been operating under prior to Oct 30 does not physically exist any more!

I am in discussions with my insurer at the moment regarding where I stand with my Public Liability. There is a clause in every public liability policy that states, the policy holder will exercise a duty of care as far as the insured risk is concerned. You cannot let a guest use a bicycle you know to have a fault in a public place.....You cannot allow a stage-performing flamethrower to practice his craft in your insured rental space. You cannot force a disabled person to use facilities that do not have disabled accessibility, ie: a flight of stairs, undersized doorways. If you do you will not have Public Liability coverage!

I am no longer allowed to assess my (and my insurers risk) by the wording of the Disability section.

This has got nothing to do with ethnic origins or groups, this has to do with the physical risk to my property! It appears this Disability Clause will be in contravention of standard insurance actuarial protocol!

And this is where the ugliness comes in......in the midst of telling us how much they want to work with us, they alter the terms of service to lace us up in an ever tightening straight jacket! 

It is very probable John that I will no longer be able to list with Airbnb after January 20th 2021......

But I will cross that hurdle when I come to it!

Cheers.........Rob

@Fred13 @Michelle53 @Ian-And-Anne Marie0 @Emilia42  @Sarah977  @Rebecca181 @Super47 @Ute42   

[Super47]

@Robin4

"And this is where the ugliness comes in......in the midst of telling us how much they want to work with us, they alter the terms of service to lace us up in an ever tightening straight jacket!"

I've been combing the new T&Cs for the past few days and you're absolutely correct - that's exactly what's going on here. The peasants (us) are being thrown a handful of mouldy crumbs from the royal table in the form of a few largely cosmetic 'improvements' and 'incentives', while the aristocracy are gleefully preparing to stuff their faces with cream cake as they stealthily tighten the screws even tighter on the peasants' already paltry pantry.

Re the Disability Clause though - I haven't got as far as that yet in my trawlings so I may be totally mistaken here, but from memory, the paras you've posted above seem very similar to the version in the previous T&Cs. Is there one part in particular that you've identified as having been amended since the last update? 

[Robin4]

@Super47 

Penelope if you read the full wording in the previous TOS certain criteria associated with assistance animals was obligatory, but the suitability of the property was discretionary on the part of the host. We could at least establish if the property would be a fit with the disability. We no longer have that ability! We are not allowed to question the disability in any way unless the guest volunteers it.....That's the important bit!

I specifically bring this up Penelope because, in January 2017 I hosted a guest who said she was regarded as Australia's leading junior swimming coach. I accepted the reservation and when all 160 Kgs of her arrived at my gate, I panicked. As  it turned out that was one of my loveliest hosting experiences but, I had a choice of whether I accepted that booking or not.

I don't have that choice any more, I am acutely aware that my listing is not a 'one shoe fits all feet' property.....but I am only allowed to rent on that basis! 

Cheers.........Rob

[Super47]

@Robin4

Oh don't get me wrong Rob - I absolutely 100% agree with where you're coming from but I'm just trying to establish the exact changes that have been made to the wording, so I can have someone look over it to assess its legal standing. I'm out strolling in the park right now (well, sitting on a bench, having my lunch actually 😉) so I haven't got access to my documents or files just at the moment.

Could you post up the corresponding clauses from the previous T&Cs please, so I can have a look? 

[Robin4]

@Super47 

Hi Penelope, I will post the previous clauses, but before I do I want to run it past a legal mate of mine so he can explain what the differences mean, please just bare with me on this.

The problem is most hosts are like me and do not understand the law, we see something and are vaguely aware of what it is saying but don't appreciate the implications of the wording!

Look at the way the 'No Class Action' clause changed over time. In 2018 Airbnb introduced a 'no class action' clause into the TOS.

In 2019 they amended it........

And to the new version Oct 2020.....

They all read with the same broad meaning but obviously someone has taken Airbnb to task with their original blanket, "No Class Actions" clause and they have had to soften it with each new version that has come along! 

I use that illustration above because there are many downloaded versions of when this TOS change came into effect. It was big deal news at the time. I am not disclosing anything I shouldn't, it's all in the public arena!

In this instance I don't want to say something that may be wrong, may mislead others here  or might get me into trouble, so let me get advice on this before I go any further!

I say this Penelope because, as a user you no doubt are aware you can access the TOS archive file and you can display previous versions of the TOS but, as soon as you click on any of the supplied links in that TOS that have altered content, and this includes the Anti-Discrimination clause, you will be hit with the 'OOPS Icecream girl' 404 error code, the contents of the links have been removed from public viewing!

I hope you can understand my position!

Cheers........Rob  

[Super47]

@Robin4

No worries Rob! I have printouts in my office of all the unaltered T&Cs and associated policies that Airbnb have ever released since they've been in existence anyway, so I'll take a look at the previous Non-Discrimination and Disability clauses when I get a chance later today.

And yes, I'm aware that Airbnb removes all previous information from links to policies that have been altered, but as the new T&Cs don't even come into force until Jan 20th for existing users, the links to the old terms absolutely should not have been removed/deactivated at this point in time. Deeply unethical - and potentially unlawful - behaviour. 

[Debra300]

@Melodie-And-John0,

The acceptance of service animals and emotional support animals is already in the current term of service.  Legally, in the US a person is not required to pre-notify an accommodation that they are bringing a service animal, and Airbnb has taken it upon themselves to extend that grace to emotional support animals,  as well.  Airbnb still does not cover any damages caused by animals.  The only way not to accept these category of animals is if it causes a danger to someone in your household or to the service animal. 

[Melodie-And-John0]

exactly @Debra300  and a service animal of any type would do so in 2 out of 3 of our suites.  Our dog is not other pet friendly and its stated clearly in our rules and other places in the listing.   There would be no way our dog would rest a moment if another animal was in the home and nobody else would either therefore I will reject anyone at the door that didnt disclose that for 2 out of three location, the glamper could be compromised on but I wouldn't be happy. 

The question I have is, what methods does Airbnb use to prove the validity of either of those 2 types of animals or is it just accepted as truth regardless of the reality?   If thats true and Im not even allowed to ask for verification of appropriateness and legitimacy of these what should be fully trained animals prescribed by doctors, I might not be doing a 4th year as an Airbnb host.    Their is a high level of responsibility on the part of the owner of working animals, I feel like trust but verify is the only way I could accommodate the risks associated with these types of stays.   JR

[Debra300]

@Melodie-And-John0,

Airbnb just accepts the word of the guest regarding service/emotional support animals, and legally you may not ask for verification of a service animal (which usually isn't necessary, because they usually have on their special little vests so strangers don't try to pet/distract them).  However, Airbnb has expanded this to ESAs, and there is no Federal or State certification for this type of animal. 

It is the host's responsibility to post on their listing that they have an animal that would make it unsafe for the guest's animal or that the guest's animal would pose a danger to someone in the household or person that services the rental space.  In my case, our cleaner is very allergic to animal dander, fur, feathers and down.  We list in our Things to Know section that guests may not bring animals for this reason.