Covid-19.....lets help each other

[Robin4]

Reading many of the posts on this hosting board almost all correspondents are critical of the way Airbnb have handled this current pandemic situation.

What disturbs me is, some are trying to whip up hysteria by creating scenarios of their own which is not helping.

One host here  @Sheila22 has claimed she as a guest has double dipped on her travel insurance and also got a refund from Airbnb and then goes on to talk about price slashing, guests cancelling and rebooking at cheaper rates and even looting!! She then backtracks and says she is a host and just trying to put different ideas in the mix!

Sheila, I appreciate that you are simply trying to play the part of 'Devils Advocate' with your comments, but this is seriously not the time to be doing it! 

The hosting community are going through hell at the moment......as it stands this will cost me $20,000 this year if there is no short term remedy to the current pandemic. And all 3+ million of us hosts are going through the same thing.

I am also concerned that this pandemic could spell the end of Airbnb! To suddenly lose $94m in invest-able funds is not something a service company with few tangible assets can handle. Airbnb depend on cashflow and, that cashflow has stopped. The company may quite possibly not recover from this.

We are a community of hosts who collectively have a mass of experience and ideas to draw on. This is the time to be constructive and support each other and think of alternate ideas that may help us get our hosting wagons back on the tracks again once the worlds medical brains get on top of this. 

Please folks, can we be creative, not destructive!

Cheers........Rob

[Sheila22]

I don't really care if my comment is removed, but I do care that you (and Airbnb at large) hide your heads in the sand and tout that this is not accurate.  The scenario I've laid out in that comment has been happening exactly that way.  Anyway you slice it, it's wrong.  Not buying travel insurance and then soaking the Host is wrong, buying travel insurance and collecting from travel insurance AS WELL AS the Airbnb Hosts is wrong.  Airbnb is faciliating this.  It's factual and there is evidence of it.  I have seen it as people have taken screenshots and shared it (I have already said this).  The fact that you care so much to trash me reveal a great deal about this "community" forum (a "Host" forum at that!) -- covering up for Airbnb -- it's now very evident.  if you care to know the truth, ask the people you work for -- the Airbnb execs.  They know what they have done.

[Steve2542]

To weigh in on Sheila22 comments..  I had a guest book last week after the EC policy was implemented. They tried to cancel at 8.30pm on the night of their arrival, despite being in contact early in the day that they were on the way, I think they were driving from NY to us in the Boston area.

While I don't know why they then tried to cancel,  they didn't get the refund at such a late stage and they still have not actually cancelled so the apartment is available to them.... so strange what they were trying to do. They didn't offer an explanation though my guess is they got a really good deal on a better space. Or maybe they heard the news of the EC and thought they could book places and cancel without cost, I don't know. 

Still the opportunity would be there for such a guest to get access and "loot" the property so I don't disagree with Sheila22's post of view. It can happen so obviously something for hosts to be aware of, its not scare mongering as some members have tried to label Sheila's point of view.

Anyway my take is there should have been a balance, to wipe out my reservations despite my tough cancellation policy without some % or credit or raincheck solution is crazy. My worry is that after this Apr 14 policy and the issues are still there (no doubt this will last longer) what they will do with the next wave of cancellations? .. my wish is that the top brass consider both sides of the transaction.... they can't put the hurt for cancelling only on one side of the transaction, I don't know the stats but my guess is 90% or more stays are leisure, and thats your free time that you book, your discretionary income, if you are worried about losing it get insurance, crap happens so let's be fair to both sides. 

If a credit or raincheck solution can't be found then 50% for both sides sounds fair to me, or if you get a booking for the same dates as the cancelled reservation then the guest can get a full refund. 

I had a family stay at a ski resort booked for this weekend ... the hotel has not offered my anything yet, my hope is I will get a credit for another time, or 50% if that's not possible. Let's get some fair and realistic solutions and let the top brass know what Hosts are willing to accept, hopefully this time they will consider Hosts input before any blanket policy.

For a large company to not have some equitable plan in place for this scenario is surprising to say the least, to not take a moment and consider Hosts the suppliers of your product, and try get a fair solution is poor management at minimum.

[Robin4]

@Ange2 

Ange I knew full well that @Sheila22  was stating hypothetical scenarios, that was why I started this thread. She admitted it as soon as a few critical comments came back to her after her initial post. 

What I am trying to get across Ange, this is not the time for scuttlebutt, throwing around insinuations that are simply going to add more pain on hosts who are suffering at the moment.

Sheila was starting to get some irate comments, she was being condemned for what was simply an idea on her part, and I don't want to see that. I don't want to see us 'ridiculing' each other. 

I know Sheila's heart is in the right place, I just want her not to throw more coal on what is an over-stoked fire!

Cheers......Rob

[Sarah977]

@Robin4 @Ange2  Now Sheila is busy posting falsehoods about how the moderators are censoring or removing COVID posts because she doesn't understand how the forum is set up. Even though I explained it to her, she's ignoring the explanation. A few days ago she accused me and other users of being shills for Airbnb because I dared to start a positive post that had nothing to do with COVID cancellations. I wish the moderators would give her a warning. @Lizzie ?

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

@Sarah977 

If every member was given warnings about posting falsehoods, there'd be very few posters around. Even amongst the most active posters, falsehoods proliferate. Backing up posts with facts would be highly commendable. Actual facts are not too difficult to substantiate if they are actually factual. This was actually suggested by a community member over a year ago, him suggesting the attachment of any relevant TOS reference. 

I suggest, as @Robin4 was suggesting, we do not spread rumours or falsehoods which are destructive, but truth and facts instead.

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

@Robin4 

So many decisions seem so 'knee jerk'.

Airbnb taking money out of their kitty to buy hotels and compete with local hosts is both an expensive occupation and anti-community action, but they do it, this builds assets, and has an affect on cashflow. And then giving 100% refunds, in some cases grossly inappropriate, is very much like - 'shooting oneself in the foot', they could quite easily have offered travel vouchers instead, this taking nothing out of their cashflow, whilst at the same time sitting on that bullion of wealth they are custodians of for Hosts. Thats Host's money, not theirs. Nobody forced them to refund Guests. By refunding Guests 100% with no questions asked, just like the hotels they bought they were buying assets, but with money which was not theirs.

Hosts continue to be abused by the operating platform and company biases and too used as insurance agents, so it is understandable whilst this remains to exists there will be a lot of ill feeling around.

Great companies, organisations and teams win by leading example, there seems little in the way of leading example or an even handed treatment being shown here, and whilst very keen to write the words 'caring community', and 'We are partners, and we will get through this together',  I find it very difficult to actually correlate their words to their actions.

Who in their righteous and fair mind will provide a refund button to a Host titled 'Accept' refund or 'Decline' refund - when the 'Accept' refund will always override Hosts refund policies? Thats just not 'caring' at all, it is just basically deceitful.

I wouldn't write Airbnb off, they could make amends, they just simply need to want to do it.

[Robin4]

@Ian-And-Anne-Marie0 

Good post Ian, and I agree with you that great companies lead by example....the success of the company comes from the top! And this is where Airbnb could possibly fail, the 'example' they proffer and the example they offer are two entirely different things.

The thing that Airbnb have not considered, successful hosts are successful for a reason! They have offered and committed a lot of time, money and effort into what they do. These entrepreneurs need some form of stability to run their businesses by. They can't survive on knee jerk reactions such as Airbnb are not only offering at the moment, but have a history of enacting over the past few years. This 'business', which has got Airbnb where it is, will leave and follow a more reliable business model and Airbnb are going to end up with a hosting community they don't want......the couple with a spare bedroom who might attract 15 or 20 guests a year, the host who doesn't care if he has a guest or not.....nuisance business.

And Ian, if that happens that will be the end of Airbnb.

I am not condoning what Airbnb are doing.....far from it but I am not going to waste my energy flogging a dead horse. Money makes people greedy, and the greedier a person becomes, the greedier they want to become, and the more intent they become on hording what they have! Airbnb are not going to change, they are not going to become host-centric, so there is no point in trying to browbeat them into it.....it's not going to happen!!

I want all of us here to be constructive in offering alternate ideas that will enable all of us to keep on making a success of what we do.

I have been active here on this community centre since December 2015 and in that time I have contributed almost 6,200 posts.....I have seen many upheavals in that time but this is a great community and I want to see us stay together, not fragment in different directions!

Cheers......Rob

@Sheila22 

[Sheila22]

@Robin4   Yay! -- "Contructive"  -- perfect word for this moment!  It doesn't happen over night, but it needs to happen now.  I'm interested in your ideas!

[Sheila22]

Aww, not again .  Constructive!  (My typing/spelling is driving me nuts right now).  @Robin4   You used the perfect word, but I botched it :  (

[Jana27]

How about, or is there, a SOLUTIONS thread?

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

@Robin4 

Airbnb are going to end up with a hosting community they don't want... the host who doesn't care if he has a guest or not.....nuisance business.

And Ian, if that happens that will be the end of Airbnb.

Your third paragraph indicates that you're resigned to just give up or give in, Airbnb have trained you well and worn you down.

I do care for Airbnb, but they really do need to up their game. They're not the only pony in this race anymore so if they fall there will be, and already are, plenty of options open to Hosts.

I care, but I couldn't muster the energy to fight for them. I can rationalise the partnership benefit, but they're really doing their best to make things really difficult for all their Hosts. (That deceptive refund button I mentioned previously - I only experienced recently), no control of security deposits, disregard of Hosts House Rules, reporting losses before next guest arrival and before reviews, siding with guests, not host-centric... there is little love left for many.  After the fall, due to the lack of similar platforms Home Share Hosts would be the ones to suffer most despite them being the fundamental foundations that Airbnb was built on. I'm sure feelings run deeper with them, a sense of disbelief or a long term loyalty maybe? Something will come along and fill their space, next time without the coercive control which might have seemed clever 'back then', and competition now can exist without.

Any unsuspecting Host wanting to do the 'right thing' on this platform without having training on the community forums would be fleeced by Airbnb... Refund? yes. ACCEPT.. WTF?

Constructive idea...? Airbnb, fix it. All of it. One piece at a time. Properly.

[Jessica-and-Henry0]

@Robin4 

I love your expression " I am not going to waste my energy flogging a dead horse." Lol~

I hope I get a chance to casually throw it out during one of my many many stuffy and boring conference call meetings. 

You really captured my sentiments with this post - Airbnb is not going to change. They've always been guest-centric oftentimes "throwing hosts under the bus", sometimes for the most ridiculous claims ever.

Based on my own observations of how Airbnb operates, the recent decision to apply EC to all cancellations due to covid-19 and blindly/unilaterally provide a full refund to guests without proper evidence or documentation is EXACTLY what I'd expect Airbnb to do. 

I'm not saying this is right and in no way condone how Airbnb has handled this situation. But really......... I'm saying I'm not surprised at all..... and AM surprised that so many hosts ARE surprised. 

[Robin4]

@Jessica-and-Henry0 

Once again, a great post Jess. Many times over the past few years Airbnb's users have kept them informed of community sentiment. We often say they don't take any notice of us......that is wrong, they sure do take notice of us!

Back in February 2017 there was a call by many in the hosting community casing feelers for a class action against Airbnb over the delisting of many multiple listing hosts for ...."Not providing and authentic Airbnb experience"!  I think you would remember that Jess!

Airbnb through Q&A's and Admin posts went to great lengths to assure the community that we were all very valued members of the organisation. But Jess, what was the only tangible thing that actually came out of that whole experience?........Airbnb altered their TOS to forbid the pursuing of a class action against the company! We all got an email telling us that in order to continue to use Airbnb we would agree to the new terms of service! 

Here it is, section 19 clause 11.............

That was the turning point for me, I realised that Airbnb are about protecting their status and anything that challenges their gains will not be acknowledged or tolerated....within the extent of the law.

Jess, I also am surprised at the number of hosts who are suddenly outraged over the way Airbnb are handling this current crisis. There was always only ever going to be one consideration where the decision making brass were concerned, and that was what would appear to be the least financial damaging  for them! We have seen examples of this daily for years, why was the sudden introduction of a pandemic going to alter the company's compass.

I love Airbnb, it has been great to me but, I don't live in a 'fools paradise', I don't expect them to protect me or even listen to me.....all I want out of them is a steady supply of paying guests, and as long as I get that, I will hang around!! 

Cheers......Rob

@Ian-And-Anne-Marie0 @Sarah977 @Sheila22  @Ute42 

[Susan17]

@Robin4 

Airbnb had already amended their ToS to mandate binding arbitration and forbid class action suits in late 2015, and again tightened ithem up in early 2016, as a result of a rash of discrimination allegations against hosts on the platform throughout 2014 and 2015. The most high-profile guest to launch a proposed class action suit against the company was Gregory Selden, an African-American guest who claimed to have been a victim of discrimination on the platform after being rejected by a host when using his own profile pic, but subsequently accepted by the same host when he sent requests from two profiles, posing as white guests.

At the very same time in 2016 that Airbnb were implementing their Non-Discrimination policy - which all hosts were compelled to agree to in order to access the site - the company was simultaneously  fighting tooth and nail through the judicial system to deny Gregory his day in court. In November 2016, a judge finally ruled that the proposed class action be moved into mandatory arbitration instead, thereby avoiding a long and potentially damaging legal fight for Airbnb. 

19/06/2016 Airbnb Vows To Fight Racism, But Its Users Can't Sue To Prompt Fairness.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/20/technology/airbnb-vows-to-fight-racism-but-its-users-cant-sue-to-...

01/11/2016 Airbnb's Terms of Service Just Blocked A Racial Discrimination Case

https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/1/13487510/airbnb-terms-of-service-racial-discrimination-arbitratio...

[Susan17]

@Robin4 

"There was always only ever going to be one consideration where the decision making brass were concerned, and that was what would appear to be the least financial damaging  for them!"

Unfortunately, the course of action chosen in relation to the coronavirus crisis by the decision making brass, is looking to be the most reckless and financially, operationally and reputationally damaging decision that has ever been made in the history of the company. One that they may very well not come back from.