Expectations following terrible stay and poor communications/support from Airbnb

[Chris13059]

Hi there,

I'd be interested to learn from the community (particularly from hosts perhaps) what is a reasonable expectation in the following circumstances:

- Two families (inc 5 kids) checked into a stay in France

- Turns out the property is not as described (specifically not a secure/safe garden, but also not modern fittings etc)

- There is broken glass all over the place, and I get cut foot

- There is new sheep poo around the pool that needs cleaning every day

- The kids room has mice in (wan't sure whether to believe the kids the first time they saw them overnight, then we found mice in their day bags later on - all video'd)

- The kitchen is filthy, with dirt and mice/rat poo on baking trays

- Bedrooms have cockroaches

- The pool has loose and broken coping stones all round, and cover mechanism and clips are broken

- Warned not to use part of oven and some doors as they are broken

- Unsafe electrics (bare wires/broken lights)

- A variety of other issues

- General dirtiness and broken things all round

We contacted the host and then airbnb within the first 24 hours to complain. We have photos/videos of lots of the issues. The host wasn't sympathetic and said we should contact airbnb to resolve.

We have had a few messages back and forwards with airbnb, but they haven't taken any steps to help resolve the situation and we are back home again now, a week later. Airbnb hasn't responded to the most recent message (48 hours ago) since quoting their policy about finding equal/better accommodation or a full refund.

The issues caused a lot of stress due to the environment and uncertainty about whether we should move elsewhere or not, and we had to manage the children in a very different way to if we knew the place was safe and secure. Is it reasonable to expect a refund? Can anyone advise the best way to get airbnb to respond to messages, or do we need to escalate in the public domain to get them to pay attention?

All the best,

Chris

[Anonymous]

@Chris13059   You have several issues that would qualify you for a refund of the remaining days if you choose to leave:  https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/544/what-is-airbnbs-guest-refund-policy-for-stays

And I strongly suggest that you leave, for the safety and health of your family. The conditions you describe sound extremely unsanitary and especially inappropriate for children. It's a disgrace that Airbnb has not responded to your urgent concerns, but sadly that is par for the course since Corona attacked.

What you can do to avoid waiting for AIrbnb to intervene is open the booking in "Your Trips," select "Change or Cancel," and submit a request to change the checkout date to the earliest date you can possibly relocate (ideally today). I think a fair resolution to this is that the host approves your early departure, giving you a refund for the unused nights. The conditions you've experienced might merit a greater refund, but I'd take the easy out over having a prolonged fight while the children wade through animal feces.

[Ann72]

@Anonymous  It appears the OP @Chris13059 is home a week later, unfortunately.  I wish your steps were posted in every Airbnb guest's account under What To Do If You Can't Reach Airbnb and You Need To Leave Immediately.

[Chris13059]

Yes - home now as there weren't any appropriate alternatives in the nearby area to book into. Does anyone have experience dealing with refunds retrospectively like this - we have followed the Airbnb policy to the T (including raising isssues within 24 hours) and they and the hosts just didn't take any action?

[Anonymous]

@Ann72  Woops, yes you're right - I must have been so distracted by the gory details that I misread the second half of the post.

Well, @Chris13059 , unfortunately my advice above only refers to what you could/should have done and is useless now. In principle, I think Airbnb owes you at the very least a refund of your Service Fee, as they failed to provide you the service you needed. But don't hold your breath. Just bear in mind that the refund policy refers to issues that prevent you from completing your stay, and not conditions that you stayed on in spite of The return of your rental fee is dependent upon the booked dates being returned to the host's calendar, which can only happen if you terminate your booking and vacate the property.  Refund does not equal free stay.

Once again, it is appalling that you were unable to get customer service to help you complete this process, and also that the host delivered these conditions in the first place. But if you believe that you should be refunded for faulty merchandise, you return it first. The same would be the case for a property. I hope you're never in this situation again, but if you are, I do recommend familiarizing yourself with the tools that exist to independently reach a resolution. Speaking of resolution, click here if you want to request a partial refund from your host (who may refuse):  https://airbnb.com/resolutions

[Mike-And-Jane0]

@Chris13059 Please leave an honest review of the host so that others are not caught out. Other than that Andrew's advice is generally good. You may get a partial refund due to the basic amenities (ie clean safe space) not being there. I would target 50%

[Chris13059]

Thanks for the advice all - much appreciated. 

[Colleen253]

@Chris13059  It's appalling that Airbnb completely failed to assist you during this horrible stay. According to the guest refund policy, in a case like this, they are supposed to also make reasonable efforts to help you in finding other accommodation. You did everything correctly as far as I can tell, and the only thing I can say is be persistent and don't let this go. I hope you have also reported this host and the listing and will leave a review of your stay.

I'm curious, what were the reviews of this listing like?  What was the communication with the host like before the stay? 

Good luck and let us know how it all turns out. 

[Kelly149]

Unfortunately, we all (hosts & guests) have to treat ABB like any other internet platform that would introduce you to a stranger. So, forgive the corny analogy but...

Just like you wouldn't go to a deserted dark, no transportation options to get you out of dodge, dive bar to meet up with a prospective date you'd been introduced to via some dating platform in case they were mean, ugly or a serial killer... You'd meet for coffee in the day time, with a backup plan for what friend would come to rescue you if something seemed off.

As a host, I ask my prearrival questions and I have a system in place that if there is a problem with a guest then I know what I will do to get them out and protect my house.

As a guest, you too must ask prearrival questions, check reviews, look for issues with the listing, photos or host and you really MUST have a system in place for what you will do if the place is not safe. It's a bummer that you didn't like the trip and honestly that sounds like a terrible place, but you can't just stay the whole time and say now give me some money back. You can leave and get money back - and ABB can't invent another place that holds 9 people in the French countryside, but without the wildlife, on a moment's notice to magically transport you to either, so stay, and by all means review poorly OR go, but you can't have it both ways. And next time, know what your exit plan is.

[Sarah977]

@Kelly149  Normally I'd agree with you, and I think most other hosts would as well, but in the conditions described, coupled with the fact that the host was apparently unwilling to remedy any of it, and that Airbnb is impòssible to get a prompt response from these days (if they had been, this guest indicates they would have left and moved to another place).

Of course, all you say about guests making sure to thoroughly read the listing description and reviews and ask any necessary questions is true- the guest bears responsibility to do all those things, but we don't know if the guest may have done that- he doesn't say.

[Kelly149]

@Sarah977  I know. & I’m not trying to say it’s his fault per say. But we see this a lot. Well, there was nothing else available. We couldn’t afford anything else. We were stuck. 

While no one wants bad things to happen I think it bears repeating that an abb stay is NEVER guaranteed. These are by nature (usually) one person/one home/one family operations. 
If you get sick day before, a guest needs a backup plan. 

if my house has a mechanical issue day of, guest needs a back up plan. 
If I have months worth of cancellations and give up and close my listing, guest needs a backup plan. 
so on and so forth. And ABB emphatically, definitely should help in these instances. But if they DONT guests need to be prepared to take care of themselves. Just like how most hosts have learned that ABB is an introduction but it’s no guarantee of any shiny future. 

and I just don’t believe that a personable, well regarded host would say to a guest “screw you, children are fine to sleep with mice” so there has to be something more here. 

and if you are traveling with 9? people then do you not have some responsibility to contingency plan??

just like I might be willing to walk away from an expected payout bc of a bad guest, a guest has to be willing to walk away from a paid for reservation and argue about it later w abb or their credit card if it really is bad as they say. Like @@Andrew said, you can’t send back the steak after you ate the whole thing. 

[Sarah977]

@Kelly149  "and I just don’t believe that a personable, well regarded host would say to a guest “screw you, children are fine to sleep with mice” so there has to be something more here."

What makes you think this was a personable, well-regarded host? Maybe the place was newly listed and had no reviews. Maybe a new host or co-host just took over. Without a link to the listing, it's hard to say.

And it's not that easy to just pick up and move to another place with 4 adults and 5 kids. This guest seems to know the Airbnb protocol- contacted the host first to remedy things, but met with disinterest, then tried to contact Airbnb. Which is usually the back-up plan- Airbnb finds them another place or pays something towards a hotel. Not the guest's fault that Airbnb CS is a non-responsive abyss these days.

[Kelly149]

@Sarah977  Right, this host sounds dreadful. But wouldn’t you get a hint of that from the listing and pre-trip communication? I know your guests get good info from you before they come, mine do too. There are pieces missing here for sure. 

I'm just saying “buyer beware”. I think it’s a necessary message for all users of an e-commerce platform. 

how about a different example. You find a great online shop for clothes for a wedding. It’s a good price & the pictures look good so you order clothes for 9 family members. It’s a destination wedding so you send the clothes to your hotel. But you also know that sometimes there are delays or maybe fit is strange so you put a backup outfit in your luggage. On the day of the wedding the package comes & you don’t like the clothes. The colors are off, the seams are poor, some are too big, some are too small. What will customer service do for you? They can not magically create 9 ideal wedding outfits for you on the spot. Maybe they can recommend a nearby shop but maybe not.  So you patch up this, cut off that, squeeze into this one and dance thru the wedding. At this point, you can write a sternly worded email but really should the clothes be discounted?? And to what extent? And should you have boxed up the clothes in order to return them and worn the backup outfits??

just thoughts... not trying to throw shade on this poster, just an exercise for posterity sake. I’m sure they were doing the best they could in a challenging circumstance. 

[Chris13059]

Interesting comments - thank you for your perspectives. For what it's worth, here is the listing: https://www.airbnb.co.uk/rooms/12580068?source_impression_id=p3_1599747022_gLXz4U7fBCnf3%2Bz5

The hosts are not the owners, but it's run as a business - it's effectively a holiday rental that's only used for this purpose.

There is little indication from the photos or the up-front communication of issues. Plus, when it comes to matters of safety and hygiene, and the house being as described online I would suggest there are certain things that you should be able to take for granted - that's supposedly part of the benefit of using a system like airbnb. 

This is a business transaction and if the goods are not as described (or if safety has been knowingly compromised) for a service that is paid up-front then I think it is reasonable to expect money back. The airbnb policy seems really clear on this too, and I would expect this to be something both guests and hosts are aware of.

It's interesting the comments about having a backup plan - I'd be interested to know what the proposer means by this - should everybody book two places to stay for each holiday just in case one is not as described? Is it ok for hosts to deliberately mislead and have unsafe homes on the basis that guests will just move elsewhere with no consequences?

In the UK (and I suspect beyond) it is not and should not be a case of "buyer beware" - there are legal protections around how commercial goods and services are sold. Can you imagine anyone using Airbnb if there was no protection for buyers?

[Mike-And-Jane0]

@Chris13059 Just wondering why you have chosen not to leave a review.