Guest threw a party during Corona Virus, Police Called, Airbnb unreachable by phone

[Sean433]

Yesterday at 2:00am, I had to rush over at one of my listings due to noise complaints received by neighbours. I knocked the door which was opened by guests who were extremely trashy. A strong smell of weed exited the home as they opened the door. At that point, I realized I needed to end their reservation. One thing I never tolerate is people smoking inside. The poor neighbour has two young kids who were kept awake because of the trashy guests.

Police had to be called when they refused to leave. The REASON they refused to leave was because airbnb was unreachable by phone to cancel the reservation. They have a pre recorded message that due to shortage of staff, they are not taking any calls. Ultimately, the police refused to kick them out because the reservation could not be cancelled. Our joke of a police department still had the ability to kick them out for breaching our contract by breaking noise ordinance bylaws and hosting an unauthorized party. Yet they seemed to think the guest had the same rights as a long term tenant (untrue). This joke of police also told me that even if the guest had 40 people over, they cannot go inside and kick them out. When I mentioned that there were several incidents of shootings at airbnb's in Toronto, they just brushed it off and said "so what? Who are you to say this would turn into a shooting"?

Having hosted well over 500 reservation thus far, this was the first time I had to ever involved the police who were completely useless and not even aware of my rights as a landlord. Police were even more useless because airbnb was not available for us. Currently the guests are still there and set to check-out tomorrow as they refused to leave. Police have sent them the message that they can do whatever they want with people's property up to and including having 20, 30 , 40 g-d knows how many people without recourse.

On top of that, they didn't even care that this is the worst time to host a party due to the Corona Virus. There is never a good time to host an unauthorized party however this would be the absolute worse time. to the TORONTO POLICE, you are a JOKE and that is why nobody takes you seriously. You had some 10 officers there and none of them were fully aware of my rights at that moment. Additionally, you took my ID and recorded it however you did not take the ID of the guest when you spoke to her.As such, you failed to document the events and those who were involved. That was your first mistake. Your second mistake was telling me that the guest has a right to stay despite breaking bylaws and thus breaching our contract.

[Linda108]

Wow @Sean433  with 17 listings and over 250 reviews, I can imagine your process on this platform for vetting guests might be different that a lot of us, so it surprises me you have not run into this issue before.  Anyhow, your listings look very upscale so how you are protecting your investment might need to be tweaked.  As for police response, in my city, if a rental becomes a party house, the process is to require the host to resolve the issue unless there is a threat to the community requiring police response.  Noise usually is not a threat, annoyance for sure, but not a threat.  As @Anonymous  posted, you can cancel immediately and then you need a system for getting the guests out.  Having a remote way of determining the emergence of a problem, i.e., too many people coming and noise level increasing, are ways that many hosts have used to address issues.  

[Sean433]

@Linda108 

The noise was one breach of bylaw. The other one was smoking which was a health hazard to our neighbours who share a wall with us since its a semi detached home. So I think that is enough cause.

And as i mentioned to Andrew, you are not able to cancel a reservation once it is in process. I tried. Does not allow you to. It prompts you to call airbnb which was not accepting calls.

Also, the police or pigs as some rightfully refer them as, said that the guest can refuse the refund and stay. They provided the wrong information which infringed on our rights. They also did not properly document the event. They took my ID and my wife's ID but not the guest who they spoke to.

Anyhow, I have formally complained to the police department about their conduct. They spoke to us in a condescending way saying "that is risk you take as a landlord" while given the trash guest the benefit of the doubt. Not taking her ID but taking ours. Providing wrong information that the guest can refuse a refund. If airbnb had answered the phone and cancelled on the spot thereby refunding her, the contract would have ended and they would have to leave. However, the PIG said the guest can refuse the refund and stay. Wrong information

[Helen3]

I think it is really sad during this period of crisis when we need our emergency services to help protect us that you are indulging in childish name calling @Sean433 

It is not up to the police to provide you with legal information.

As a mid size property management company you should be very clear on your legal rights and responsibilities.

[Sean433]

@Helen3 

It is up to the police/pigs to follow the law and not infringe on our rights. Emergency services that actually make a difference are paramedics, nurses and doctors. The pigs just all gathered together laughing and joking at our expense. Breaching our rights.

If I had the legal right to go in there and forcefully move them out, I would have done so. I am unable to do that. I also offered them a refund but the pigs said they can refuse it which is actually wrong. They encourage trash guests to continue their behaviour contrary to the law which gives me the right to refund them and have them out.

I hope you do not come across such trashy guests but if and when you do, hopefully your police know and understand the laws and protect your rights. When they fail you, you can definitely post about it.

[Helen3]

I have never contacted the police  and would not contact the police if I have had an issue as a business owner for an STR. It is very much a civil matter and my responsibility to deal with guests who are making a nuisance in my community.

Only if there was criminal activity would I contact them. @Sean433 

I can assure you the police will very much be part of an emergency response of the virus.

As someone who works in our NHS I can tell you the key message we are giving out after health and safety advice is to ask people to stay at home and socially isolate. Our resources are already overwhelmed.

You must have seen the evidence all over the world of how people travelling is helping contribute to the rapid increase in the virus.

Don't be part of the problem. Be part of the solution.

[Sean433]

@Helen3 

That is why most of our listings have long term tenants and this particular listing will follow suite. People are picking our whole house listings because they are afraid to stay in Condos or Hotels or Apartment buildings because they all share the same ventilation system. We are seen as a safer solution and people need safety and a home to live in. So were are actually helping the community by offering really good prices for long term stays.

This is why were are all booked up with long term guests. We are not doing any short term stays at any listing. This was a one off and the last short term stay I am doing for a while.

The piglets can continue to eat their donuts in the meantime and take the credit for doing a fraction of what actual emergency service folks do. Notice how nurses, doctors, paramedics and firefighters in general have a good attitude? those are the emergency services we shoud praise. not the pigs.

[Carlota27]

Hey Helen, looks to me as like you are loosing the point here.  Same as the local police.  It's clear that the guests were doing something wrong, and by 'approving' their misconduct you are supporting the fact that many people involved here get inside on a spiral of unnecessary risk, including the innocent neighbors with another potential outbreak, only by supporting the guest's cheating and misconduct.    😞

[Helen3]

Nowhere did I say I supported the conduct of party goers @Carlota27  - do quote where I have said that????

[Sean433]

@Helen3 

The one thing I noticed in most of the police that came did not know the law and had a very egotistical attitude. When I was informing them of my rights, they kept providing the wrong information but spoke to us as if were were the trash guests and spoke to the guest as if they were the homeowner.

It seems most of these little piggies were bullied in school and decided to become police to right the wrongs that were done to them. They talk to you like you are a nobody because they have the authority. Helen, you speak about emergency services.  I once had to call a paramedic and they were the greatest guys. I had interactions with Nurses and they were all fabolous.

The one time I had to call police and 10 show up. They all acted liked bullies who were probably bullied as kids and that is why they became police. The piggies do not deserve any praise because often times, you have to deal with injustices yourself. Paramedics, Nurses and Doctors on the other hand have my total respect.

[Anonymous]

@Sean433  I can't comment on your local laws and legal rights as a landlord in Toronto, because it's your responsibility to know them and not mine. However, I can't help but notice that most of your contention here can only serve to bolster the arguments made by opponents of home-sharing, against allowing hosts such as yourself to operate short-term rentals in residential communities.

Even neighborhoods that tolerate a constant influx of tourists into residentially zoned homes still expect the owners to keep them under control, and know who's coming in and out of them. If the police have to be called because the owner has lost control of his own property, the neighbors are not going to see it as the fault of Airbnb or of the police, but rather an owner who appears to be in over his or her head, and a business model that might be inappropriate for the community.

[Sean433]

@Anonymous 

I know my rights. The police didn't. Hence the reason for the post. Also, first time ever having to call the police. Take a look at some other hosts who manage half or less listings who post on here bi weekly stating they had to call police. One day, I am sure you will have to call the police for whatever matter. When you do, hopefully they will have better knowledge of your rights and the laws. And hey, you may one day get a guest who is a serious problem at your 1 listing and have to call the police just like I had to call the police this 1 time in all my time of hosting.

Also, you may rent to a problematic long term tenant who constantly has domestic issues requiring the police to come. Would the argument then be made that you do not know how to control your long term tenant? or that you should not be allowed to rent your home and that it must be owner occupied?

[Anonymous]

@Sean433  I don't know about Canada - there are surely both cultural and legal differences - but here in Germany the majority of homes are renter-occupied - in Berlin it's over 80%. Registered tenants are overwhelmingly regarded as the rightful permanent occupants of their homes, with a large number of legal protections that make them quite hard to evict, so no, their landlords are not expected to control them.  

It's a different set of responsibilities when your business hosts transient clientele who don't have a right of occupancy - for example, bars and restaurant owners are expected to intervene to prevent their customers from making noise on the street outside, even when they've technically left the establishment. Holiday accommodation occupies a similar status. 

[Susan17]

Doesn't matter what your rights are or aren't really, @Sean433 . The police in most jurisdictions despise Airbnb with a passion, and are the amongst the most powerful objectors to Airbnb activity being permitted to continue in their areas, due to the huge drain on their manpower, time and resources, primarily from having to attend callouts that in most instances, turn out to be civil matters.

Also, most forces are no longer willing to act as Airbnb's private security firms, mainly because the company so often flatly refuses to co-operate with them, or puts a series of ridiculous obstacles in the way, when the its the police requesting information or assistance from them, particularly in serious, time-sensitive cases.

[Jennifer1421]

@Sean433 

I had always understood that if someone is violating municipal bylaws (noise) then it is up to bylaw officers in any Ontario municipality to enforce them. Noise is not a matter for the police, nor is smoking inside a rental. Obviously, there is no way at 2 am to get a bylaw officer out to deal with that, and likely, you as the property owner are the one to whom the order/fine would've been issued if they had been contacted. Presumably your only recourse would've been to take the guest to small claims court to recover the cost of the fine.

Trespass to property, however, IS a provincial law, enforceable by municipal police (or OPP, depending on location). The issue I see here is that since you were unable to cancel the reservation, technically these guests (no matter how odious or irresponsible) could not be removed by the police as they were contracted to be there at that point.

These are among the risks we take on when we operate short term rentals. The police, in my experience, have NO idea about landlord-tenant laws, nor anything to do with civil matters and therefore their utility to us is, at best, marginal.

I hope these guests didn't do any damage to your unit out of spite.

All the best!

[Sean433]

@Jennifer1421 

I have her Passport ID as I asked her to send it before coming. That is how careful I am even with locals with 3 good reviews. I have always said no to locals with no reviews but now it will be a flat out ban on all locals regardless of reviews.

Police can come when there are noise violations and when smoking is causing a health hazard to others, they can also interfere. I am not sure if you missed some information however the pigs asked me if I willing to refund her even in Cash. And they said that even if I offer her a refund in cash or whatever, that the guest can still refuse it. However, they also said that once the reservation is over and she does not leave, I can call them back and ask them to remove her. If you are following me so far, then you can see the issue here right? If airbnb cancelled the reservation hence refunding her the unused days, the check out day would have been that night and she would have had to leave by the logic of the police. But they also said she can refuse a refund. Two very contradicting statements by the police.

Imagine you are a homeowner are forced to keep someone in your home that you legally have a right to evict but the police are telling you are not allowed to do because they are making contradictory statements.