Hosts & Vaccination Requirements

[Anonymous]

Now that the Covid vaccine is being rolled out, we're seeing a lot of hosts asking questions about how to make vaccination a condition of entry. I'm not personally in favor of hosts asking for private medical documents, and in many jurisdictions it would be illegal to do so, but these are exceptional times and it's understandable that in-home hosts are trying to find a way to host safely again. As long as Airbnb grants an exemption to the cancellation policy when guests say they've tested positive, hosts have every reason to prefer guests who aren't at risk of this.

So far, the vast majority of people who are able to travel have not had access to the vaccine, but this will hopefully change over the next months. And even though it's a thorny topic, this is the time that hosts really need Airbnb to issue some guidance about how hosts can set requirements here. Can hosts request medical documents, even if they're not qualified to authenticate them? Will the Non-Discrimination Policy be applied to hosts who discriminate against unvaccinated guests? 

@Catherine-Powell I hope this is addressed in the next policy update from Airbnb, because it's increasingly clear that most in-home hosts have no real intention of adhering to the "protocol" that they were aggressively bullied into saying they would follow. If Airbnb is willing to allow people to require guests to be vaccinated, I hope we'll have an on-platform format for guests to enter their data without compromising their medical privacy. But otherwise, I hope we can at least have a loud and clear announcement of what hosts can and can't ask for, so we don't have people's businesses destroyed weeks later by a complaint that they fell afoul of a policy that didn't exist yet.

[Jack1492]

My wife and I were just having this discussion about what can and cannot happen to vaccinated people. We know you can still get sick, but apparently not as serious. Can you transmit? It seems to me that these kinds of questions lead to endless debates that usually cannot be answered by laypeople. Even doctors are unsure of all the possibilities, but we do know this: none of the vaccines are 100%. I think these questions miss the point. For me, as a "responsible" citizen who is not a conspiracy theorist and believes in the power and safety of vaccines, I will follow the advice of government certified health officials - the vaccine is safe and everyone who is eligible should get it. My wife and I support that advice and in order to promote it and do our part to try and stem the COVID-19 pandemic, we will require proof of vaccination for our guests.

[Lisa723]

@Anonymous @Kitty-and-Creek0 @Linda108 

We turned down our first request to book last week due to guest's inability/unwillingness to commit to vaccination when available. (Not on Airbnb.) 

This was for a large group in an entire home (actually two homes in this case) listing, next summer. The requirement has appeared on our listings since July and this is the first time it's been an issue.

Andrew, I recall and am mindful of your previous comments about the impact on people who can't be vaccinated and don't want to be asked about it. I regret that possible effect but it's ultimately outweighed by our other concerns about hosting unvaccinated groups in our community.

I would definitely welcome platform support for guests and hosts to verify that they either have been vaccinated or are medically exempt, without having to share the medical details.

[Anonymous]

@Lisa723  Yesterday, the German press reported an outbreak in a nursing home in which at least 14 people - all of whom received both doses of the Pfizer vaccine last month - tested positive for the British variant of Coronavirus. None of them had serious symptoms of illness, which is a good sign that the vaccine is currently effective at protecting the recipient from getting sick.

However, as long as the virus is still circulating in the community, it appears possible that a vaccinated person can still be a vector of transmission. If this is true, it would suggest that there's little direct public health benefit in treating them differently from unvaccinated people.

Some hosts have suggested a moral benefit in conveying disapproval of the holdouts, as we can't collectively reach herd immunity if the anti-vax position is not heavily marginalized. That's also an interesting line of questioning: to what extent can hosts feel free to express their moral opinions about groups that are not protected classes, by declining bookings?

One thing for sure is, we'll be living in a different world by the point in time that the vaccine is universally available to all who want it, and it's impossible to predict what considerations and precautions will be necessary that far in the future. 

[Lisa723]

@Anonymous yes, it's impossible to predict with 100% certainty. I had an uncle (who worked for Exxon) who made a similar argument against acting to mitigate planetary warming. My own feeling is that in an uncertain world we have to make the best decisions we can with the information we have, and stay ready to continually adjust.

Over the last year we have had to continually adjust, including maintaining four days of vacancy between stays, canceling and rescheduling stays not compliant with local health advisories, etc., etc.-- and I have no doubt we'll have to continue to adjust through the coming year.

But one thing we can be certain of, right now, is that we don't want to lock in reservations from people, especially large groups of people, who say they are unwilling to commit to vaccination when they can get it. We have some evidence that our policy is protecting us from such reservations, so from our perspective it's having the desired effect.

If vaccination does not turn out to be protective against transmission, then I agree with you that the situation is complicated. In this case when vaccination is generally available then we have a range of possible scenarios. Either enough people get vaccinated so there is no great risk of spreading events causing many cases of serious illness and overwhelming medical providers, or not enough people get vaccinated and this risk remains. In the latter scenario we will have to continue our current vacancy buffers and of course continue to comply with local health advisories, which may include canceling or rescheduling reservations we have accepted, including from vaccinated guests. But in neither scenario will I feel bad about declining to rent to people who decline to be part of the solution.

[Inna22]

@Anonymous I was fortunate to be vaccinated last month. The card I got looks like a joke. If someone showed it to me, I would not have trusted it. Handwritten little card, they scratched out the lot number of the first dose and replaced it with the second. There has been some talk of a uniform "vaccine passport"

[Tueykay0]

@Inna22 :

that card comes from the CDC. It’s a standard vaccination card , just like if you got tetanus or hep shot. Just because it’s hand written doesn’t mean it’s ‘a joke’. This is old fashion record keeping. 

[Inna22]

@Tueykay0 it sounds like you have seen the card. It does not even have a date of birth. There is a line for it, but they did not fill it in. They messed up my name, just scratched it and wrote again. Yes, I would call it a joke, not a medical and legal document intended to carry any legitimacy. As @Anonymous pointed it out, the drive to forge will be immense and the process could not be easier. 

To take this a step further, you can get a vaccine and the one card, take a picture of it, sell it to someone who can scratch their name and put their own. The cards are not numbered so any rouge employee of any facility giving vaccines can just take a stack and sell it. Fraud possibilities with the card in it's current format are endless

[Anonymous]

@** That's a funny one. How could someone prove that they're not vaccinated?

[Mary996]

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**[Content hidden due to its unverifiable or misleading nature - please note the CC is not an appropriate platform for spreading misinformation. Participants are encouraged to stay on topic and only share information from reliable sources]

[Jack1492]

What you are describing are flaws in the human genome. We will never eradicate fraud and most other forms or crime - at least voluntarily. That said, it is up to the host to decide what qualifies as valid proof of vaccination.

[Jack1492]

If the host rquires proof of vaccination they also have the right to to deicde what type of proof is acceptable.  I have a card printed with the CDC logo. Yes, it's filled in by hand. Yes, it could be counterfeited. And yes, I am sure there are some people who would go to the trouble of doing that. That is just another example of faulty DNA in the human genome. At some point you have to say either yes or no. You accept proof of vaccination or not. You clean according to Airbnb policies. You mask up when around guests. You do your best and hope it works. That is a host's right

[Anonymous]

@Inna22  A digitized passport like the one Denmark is developing would make things easier there, though it would be an enormous undertaking to expand that into a global system.

I imagine the nightmare scenario of arriving in a new place, discovering that I've lost that little card, and being turned away from accommodation because I couldn't produce the evidence of vaccination. Another thing is, a document like that is very easy to forge, so its usefulness may be inversely proportional to its desirability.

[Tueykay0]

@Anonymous 

Its advised & suggested that people who come in for #1 or #2 take a picture of the card and I suggest that people scan it into their computer so they can reprint any time. 

[Till-and-Jutta0]

Thank you for opening this discussion, @Anonymous . I personally think the time has come, and we saw the question arising in our (common) country last week.

According to my own personal opinion, also this issue (as the other issue about the masks) has two aspects:

• The legal matters – what are we allowed to do?
• The ethics – what we should do?

1) Legal matters

You must not exclude a certain group of people (here: the not-vaccinated ones) from basic needs such as buying food or using the only public bus connecting city A with village B. But the private economy has the freedom of contract. That means, that an organizer of events such as concerts, cinemas, sport games or other cultural events could decide which people they accept, for these events are not regarded as basic needs. I’m wondering how a hotel owner or the host of a private accommodation will be regarded. At least, tourist travels are no basic needs.

2) Ethics

Last week the German Ethics Council had been asked, and they decided: At this juncture such a distinction is not ok and not recommended, for various reasons, such as to inhibit a further society split, and as it is not yet proofed that a vaccination will prevent others from not getting infected.

Though I understand that the Council left it open, if at a later date such a distinction might be wise and recommendable.

And, the Council explicitly welcomes the fact that the society is starting such a discussion now.

And I think, Airbnb will have to deal with this issue also.

[Sarah977]

As a home share host who is aware that vaccination isn't any assurance that someone can't infect others, if and when I open again (and I 'm not closed to bookings because of any govt. restrictions on homeshares where I live, but simply for my own protection and so as not to be a part of the problem in facilitating travel at this time), it will depend on me being vaccinated, or science finding a dependable cure, rather than relying on anything the guest has done.

Of course guests could be carrying all manner of communicable diseases, but those are diseases that have been around a long time, are known to me and which my immune system seems to be capable of fending off - I haven't had the flu or even a cold in 25 years, even when closely exposed to those who do.

COVID is a different kettle of fish and one I'm not willing to take a chance on.

And yes, Airbnb needs to come up with a clear policy on this.