Oregon 2022 reservation

[M199]

On the news...

[Stephanie]

Hiya @M199 ,

What do you think about this news article? Do you have some more ideas or feedback on how Airbnb can battle discrimination on the platform? Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

Thanks

[Christine615]

I don’t get why Airbnb caved unless there is more to the story. Hotels get to see full names on reservations as well as home addresses. 

So many people like this make it hard to address real racial issues because they have triggers. I remember two women suing an airline because they were late and were insulted when the flight attendant used a nursery rhyme that many of us use with our kids to tell them to hurry up.

Good grief.  I think this was a test and Airbnb lost. I expect the lawyers to push for a nationwide application at which point I might leave the platform. Note they said names  “could be used” as a way to discriminate not “has been used.”

Can I sue to have the original rules of full names and bios restored because it’s a safety issue for owner occupied homes? Under federal law my unit is in an owner occupied duplex and not considered a public accommodation.

What about when Airbnb put a known felon with guns in my neighbor’s home share? 

If they keep hiding guest and host information how long before a competitor comes along with a more host friendly model?

I’m on the record as saying If “a host” or “a guest” is a problem, ban them. Don’t burn down the whole house  trying to deal with a single mouse.

[Sarah977]

@Stephanie  "Do you have some more ideas or feedback on how Airbnb can battle discrimination on the platform?"

I do- Airbnb should create an algorithm which identifies hosts who consistently decline bookings from POC or those with names which may identify them as a particular race or nationality.  

Presenting all guests to all hosts as anonymous entities with no name and profile photo is ridiculous and disrespectful- expecting us to open our homes to completely unidentified strangers. I would hazard a guess that bigoted hosts are the vast minority, so why are we all expected to accept such a thing? 

Meanwhile guests can see hosts' names, profile photos and homes. If Airbnb wants to put these misguided non-discrimination checks in place, why do they only pertain to guests, not hosts? What's to stop black hosts, for instance,  having bigoted guests pass over their listings?

[Wende2]

Honestly just showing initials, how ridiculous, that sounds like discrimination to me, you may be someone that we can't show your name.  Like a name is a tell, my last name is obviously German, but I'm all American. 

I think @Christine615  couldn't have said it better.

[M199]

@Stephanie 

You know my thoughts through our PM, enough said.  I do have another comment, further to our PM, but that can wait.

This may become a hot topic.  But will HAB or C Powell listen? Probably not.

[Christine615]

I just wanted to add, that I became an Airbnb users years before I became a host. My daughter was in school back then and living abroad for a year and I was attending a writing event. I quickly realized that I had not "factored" and extra 2 weeks of hotel cost into my budget when I told her I'd stay in Europe until her spring break so we could spend a week in Paris. I spent the first week in London at an apartment I found on tripadvisor. It was fun and convenient to every place I needed to go. And affordable. I left it as clean as I found it.

I spent the second week in Paris with my mom, her friend and my daughter. That week we used an Airbnb. The host asked if she could "meet me" first and friended me on Facebook. We talked about my mother's love of antiques and she suggested places for us to go. It was within walking distance of Montmartre.

THAT is what Airbnb used to be. And THAT is what Airbnb needs to go back to. Make it harder to qualify as a host or a guest. Emphasize individual owners as part of the true Airbnb experience - people to people interaction, not hotel alternatives.

I have four men living in my space right now. Before the holidays, my daughter/on site co-host was called in for extra shifts at work so she didn't get the leaves raked in time for the city pickup. So I walked over to do it. I made a mistake (forgot to zip the collection bag of my leaf vacuum) and my guests - who speak no English - came down and tapped me on the shoulder and laughed. Then we spent a half hour laughing, using sign language, and getting the leaves bagged. I got them Povitica bread which is baked fresh locally as a gift.

A few days later their company inboxed me to say the men liked the place so much they wanted to come back after the holidays (working on a local  project).

Funny thing is I've lived in this neighborhood for 30+ years. My neighbors keep an eye on the building and wave and smile at the guests. We had four grad students stay with us while taking a test-prep course and my neighbors knew all their names by the time they left. We're not some "way station" for guests looking for a cheap alternative to a hotel. Or a place to party.

I had a miltary family who wanted a home environment because their young daughter was having surgery at the Children's hospital. Having an Airbnb meant that the grandparents could stay too and make home cooked meals. I had four women who meet a different place each year for a reunion. They spent the time quilting and invited me over to chat. We still communicate. I have a guest who baked cookies for my daughter when she visited her new grandchildren. Another repeat guest set up a small tree when her son couldn't get home for the holidays. Another set of guest sent me a photo of the porch all decorated with flowers and linens for a meal. One of my guests was a woman I met when she hosted me for a conference. Since then she's stayed at my airbnb and at my house when the apartment was already booked. Now she's married, running for office and has a beautiful baby.

All because Airbnb used to be about relationships, not people with get rich quick side-hustles on their minds.

All those guests and hosts had real photos and real names and bios. Now we get anonymous strangers with blocked out names and no bios. The security camera picks up extra guests sneaking in, including a prostitute who stayed the night (hence no more local guests for me without extra conversations and no reviews until I check the footage first).

Airbnb allows people who just signed up the same day to book a space without verifying that the credit card will go through. But then blocks all the attempts in the inbox (including names and phone numbers) that would allow the host to talk to them BEFORE approving the reservation.

And I've seen no evidence there has been any background checks for safety considerations. Certainly not when the guest just signed up.

Now Airbnb wants no to further eliminate remaining information. That's great if the person has 100 reviews. Not so great if they have zero reviews or few reviews.

Either AIrbnb is a community or it is a hotel equivalent. I'm not the latter.


Here's my suggestion:

1. Have one site for commercial impersonal absentee host/investor properties.

2. Have a separate site for verified home-stay or owner managed airbnb's with personal touches. And by verified, I mean Airbnb has verified we have owned the property and or lived in it for several years and have been part of those neighborhoods- easily verified by city records. To stay in those places hosts AND guests are required to have first names, last names and bios on file that tell us each a little bit about each other.

3. VERIFY the host has proper city permits in place. Heck - verify the place actually exists and isn't a clone of someone else's property or an empty lot.

Brian Chesky had a great idea. I don't see anything left of it beyond the interaction hosts have on this board.

Diversity and inclusion is not favoring the needs of a handful of complainers who use race to manipulate the system to their advantage. Or lawyers seeing a pay-day because Airbnb caves at the slightest hint they might not be "woke" enough.

Diversity and inclusion means EVERYONE gets their needs met and we address the few who need to be booted from the platform who discriminate, or steal or damage property, or are otherwise a danger to the users (both hosts and guests).

As you can tell, this issue bothers me more than any of the other ones coming up. Because one day these knee jerk responses to people with triggers is going to push me to going back to long term renting where I'm allowed to meet the tenants, do a credit check and background check before I provide a lease.

Would rather not. But this Oregon issue has me hot under the collar.

[Wende2]

I've recently had bookings that the guest had no profile photo, no phone number and no location where they were from.  I thought how did this person get by with no nothing, oooooh yeah it's AirBnB, it's like a hotel environment since they went into the "boutique" hotel biz a few yrs ago.

I started with AirBnB Aug of 2018, things have really gone down hill in such a short time.  What also really gets under my collar, I find it really insulting that they think we're that gullible to think they're idiotic ideas are either good or make sense.

Might be worth giving AirBnB a rest and see what bookings come from VRBO.  I've seen here in the community people talking about how they appreciate that site looking out for the host.

[Kitty-and-Creek0]

@Wende2 

I started with Airbnb in 2013, after watching the platform for a few years to make sure this is a group I wanted to be associated with. I wanted to make sure we shared the same intention, the same inclusivity, quality and ethics. I was tempted to join at the very beginning, but hesitated as I wanted to see what it became and where it went. I consulted friends who used Airbnb in their travels. I consciously committed to that really good thing that Airbnb was about. 

[Kitty-and-Creek0]

@Christine615 @Stephanie @Sybe

Thank you for this, Christine! 

You have perfectly described my Airbnb experience as a guest and as a host. Personal, rich, life enhancing, precious! I travel for these types of experiences and have stayed in people's homes all over the world, all my life. I have deliberately sought them out. Some were luxurious, many quite humble. All were personal and enriching, most leading to long term friendships. I am also a decades long SERVAS traveler and host. I approach life on this planet with that same attitude of respect; thus my Airbnb hosting has been about providing superlative experiences to amazing fellow humans, by sharing my home. Being a host is for me about hospitality, not money. My attitude guarantees a positive experience, the other a potential struggle. Successful hosting requires a lot of love. Preparing the space for my guests,  making their bed,  cleaning their bathroom, is a privilege, and giving them a superlative stay, is an honor. 

I have long advocated for a separate section on the platform for home stays. A separate section for investment properties and owner-absent rentals. Another separate category should be for commercial establishments. As a guest I want to know what I am booking, and it should not be guesswork. As a host, I want my guests to know where they are staying and why, no confusion. It should not be a struggle, and the platform can easily set this up. As a lifelong traveler, I would want to click the category of home share, and not have to wade through a swamp of listings that do not interest me. It is inefficient, a waste of my time and patience. I am not looking to save money, I am looking for a particular, high quality experience.  These are the people I have as guests, too.  

Your comments #2 : YES, please. This is a way to keep Airbnb special! 

                                  #3: YES. All listings to be licensed and legal. This is also about                public safety. When we got our permits we had inspections from all the appropriate agencies for parking, roads, sanitation, fire safety, building permits. We have been given regulations around noise and neighborhood, number of guests, and insurance requirements. We are required to be present at all times when guests are here. This, too, is appropriate. 

Host profiles are filled with bio, a photo, personal information. Mine is. A guest has access to all this, which is appropriate. I want my guests to know who and what to expect. I want them to choose me as their host, to want what I, and my property, offer. Personally, I am honored when guests are from a culture different from mine, and they trust me to keep them safe, healthy, to provide them a terrific, unique, enriching experience here, to honor and respect them as fellow humans. This is the essence of hospitality. 

Airbnb can choose to honor its roots, and thus remain special, while offering something for everyone. Making it easy to shop for what we want as guests, is smart marketing.  

Giving hosts the ability to know a little something about our guests allows us to better prepare a higher level of personal hospitality, not what they can get from a hotel with rubber stamp rooms. When responding to a booking request, I want to be able to address my guest by name, as a person, not by initials. We have become numbers, initials, data, in this day and age. That is unfortunate. Home share hosts offer a precious alternative. Let's not lose that human element.

[Kitty-and-Creek0]

@Christine615 @Richard531

Discrimination is learned behavior. It is fear based, and it is so weird! In fact, we all came from common ancestors, if we go back far enough, so we are all family. People who are frightened of other people do not belong in the hospitality business, or any people business. Plain and simple. 

[Suzanne302]

@Christine615 

You took the words right out of my mouth! Came here to say just this but you probably said it better than I could have articulated. Everything. I agree!

And I've said numerous times in the CC before, Airbnb is trying to be all things to all people and that just doesn't work. Choose an audience, superserve that audience, and forget about the rest. Airbnb has an identity crisis.

[Richard531]

This can be a potentially dangerous slippery slope for Airbnb.

What I mean is, Airbnb allowing this to happen, (albeit in just a single small market) invites a certain amount of everyone to feel discriminated against for everything.  The next step is that this can become not just a Black thing (and lord knows, racism is absolutely not just a Black thing).  Now anyone that decides to identify as "a minority" can try and get something special for "them." 

But the real questions we must ask: globally, who's actually a minority on this "global platform?"  "White people" account for 15% of the global pop.  "Black people" also account for 15% of the global pop.  "Asian" people account for more than 50% of the global pop.  So.  . .  Does that mean "Asians" are the only ones that can properly "discriminate?"  What about "Hispanics" or "Latinos" or whatever word we can properly use to refer to someone that doesn't identify as Black, White, or Asian, or Eskimo, etc. that account for only 8% of the global pop?  What about the "Middle Eastern" or "Persian" race that are only 9% of the global pop?  How about the "Raceless" people?  Yes, that's a thing.  Do the "Raceless" get the benefits of all races when this whole thing finally concludes?  Gadzooks. . .  

It's all just so tired and so overdone.  I'm sorry, maybe it's just late. . .  

Yes, there are a handful of discriminatory people out there from any/all races that have a problem with whatever race they decide to have a problem with.  It's despicable, deplorable, reprehensible, and it should be ruthlessly rooted out and obliterated. 

Attacking the "problem" with this kind of heavy handed tactic solves exactly nothing while also making Airbnb look like they've actually done something wrong.  @Christine615  put it best in her opening remarks.  

How about we publicly identify (and prove) discriminatory hosts, arrest them, and put them in prison, and then put their faces on the cover of the Airbnb website? Or maybe the USA Today?  Wait, do people still read the USA Today?

Hang on. . . What about publicly identifying (and proving) discriminatory guests that won't book a place based on some kind of algorithmic booking behavior against some other race?  Arrest, tar & feather, publicly shame?  

Hang on again!  How do we even know what race the host AND the guest are in the first place!?!?  A bot decides that based on the "skin color" of a photo?  Or based on the name?  That's racist!  Wait, the bot just gets the initials then?  Or do we have a $1M team at Airbnb make the determination for millions of guests and hosts based on their review of posted avatars and names combined?  What about the massive contingent of guests (and hosts) that have an image of their beloved pet (annoying), or some narcissistic logo (even more annoying) as their avatar?  Unless, yes!  Maybe those are the "Raceless" people?  

I dunno.  This whole thing can't blow over fast enough.  The more we do this kind of stuff the longer all this nonsense carries on and the more divided we all end up being.  

[Kitty-and-Creek0]

@Richard531 

You and I, @Richard531  are in California. I am loving the great wealth of our diversity, and yes "white" people are a minority here. I am a SF Bay Area person by birth, a that is where I grew up. We all put our pants on the same, we all bleed the same; we are all the same under the skin. Any fellow human of my blood type can have their life saved by a transfusion of my blood. That is what matters here. 

[Mark116]

The issues are risk/reward and proportionality. How widespread is/was race/ethnic discrimination, are we talking 2% or 30%, was it a handful of widely publicized incidents or something that was common.  That should make a big difference in a response.  If it is a matter of weeding out a few bad hosts, why punish everyone by moving toward anonymity?  We're still for the most part individual home owners letting strangers have access to our primary or secondary homes.

Flowing from this is the risk/reward.   How much extra safety and property risk to hosts is reasonable in terms of giving no name, no profile, no photo strangers access based on the presumption that this anonymity reduces discrimination? 

I still believe eventually a host will be harmed as a result of these policies.  Hotels have security staff, they also record all guest ID information on site and are able to charge for damages...none of that is available to Airbnb hosts.