Shocking encouragement of guests disregarding checkout day & time

[Mary419]

These are just a few images of Airbnb's twitter page including their own reps condoning guests not leaving on time. On Wednesday this week I had a distressed call from my housekeeper about someone's stuff still being in a condo that was supposed to be turning over. I called the guest repeatedly, sent texts and airbnb message saying you were supposed to be checked out at 11am... no response for hours. We had new guests waiting to arrive that same afternoon. I will glaze over the details in this initial post to not muddy waters for my point but it took hours to get Airbnb service which was useless once I got someone. I should know that by now but was desperate and thought reporting would be important protocol. The Airbnb agent gleefully informed me that she would be refunding the next guest... not out of any Airbnb insurance/fund but out of my payout which instantly became zero...  SO if your guest does not leave, you lose your income from the next guest and you are supposed to thank them for canceling the next guest without penalty for you... and on top of that you are stuck with getting rid of them and their belongings if they do not willingly leave.  Robots talk to you for hours about emergencies like that Airbnb's got real humans posting replies like this making a joke out of people not leaving your property. 

[Mary419]

The theme was one of those where they post a listing and ask people to say what they would do if they arrive to that Airbnb. Take a deep dive into the Twitter page. If you want to see a whole thread of irresponsible joking about guest behaviors try this: https://twitter.com/Airbnb/status/1382793340177969155?s=20

 I was going to screen shot some from there,  like the Snow White “illegal party” and a few others but for that thread you do need to see the whole thing for context. 

Also it’s eye opening to do some searching of random people simply talking about “Airbnb” on social media and what they think of hosts having rules.

Nobody is trying to convince you of anything. If you feel you’re in good responsible hands that’s fair enough. But this is a culture where we aren’t allowed to get a copy of photo ID at check in, nor are we allowed to put a credit card on file or collect a real security deposit. Those are facts.  So the culture of no recourse is already there ... it’s not trying to be created. There are mind boggling numbers of likes and retweets of some of the most chilling statements of what guests really believe is Airbnb culture. 

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 80,000 likes on that one 

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[Colleen253]

@Katrina79 “I’m not convinced Airbnb is trying to create a guest culture of disregarding checkout times and overstaying. ”

By it’s general attitude toward hosts, Airbnb has well demonstrated that it is indeed all about cultivating that kind of guest behavior, and more. Never mind that the latest TOS language is quite vague regarding collecting a fee for overstaying, meaning it will be that much easier for Airbnb to deny a host claim, the best example of this is of course the completely bogus damage deposit. Airbnb excels at breeding bad guest behavior and  doesn’t give a hoot about it’s hosts. Their latest campaign to bring new hosts to the platform will more than make up for any who are giving up in disgust and leaving.

[Katrina79]

@Colleen253 I have to disagree with you a bit here. I think it is hosts who breed bad guest behaviour by giving good reviews to rule breakers and terrible guests. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve hosted a five star guest with numerous reviews that was anything but a five star! When I’ve had to pick up the pieces from the fallout of hosting such a guest, CS has had my back 95% of the time. Sometimes you get a bad apple, such is life. 

[Sarah977]

@Katrina79  But if you read posts here on a regular basis, hosts call Airbnb to say a guest is blatantly ignoring house rules, has a bunch of extra guests, etc, and CS tells them to just ask the guest to stop. Which the host has already done. They even tell hosts they have to let a guest continue to stay when the behavior is so outrageous the host needs the rest of the booking cancelled. Just because you or I or whatever host has had decent experiences dealing with CS that doesn't mean that is the norm.

I do agree that this business of hosts living in fear of a bad review and therefore letting guests get away with things, and then leaving some generic good review, or declining to leave any review because they can't bring themselves to be "mean" has got to stop.

[Colleen253]

@Sarah977 

Yes it needs to stop. Hosts living in fear of a bad review and letting  guests get away with things is a direct result of Airbnb’s disregard for and lack of support for hosts dealing with rule breakers and problem guests. If a host knows they are unlikely to get support from Airbnb, and the guest will simply be allowed to say “no thanks!” when ‘asked’ to pay for damages out of their faux damage deposit, and then that guest will be allowed to leave a retaliatory 1 star review, tanking a super host with the snap of two fingers, is it any wonder many hosts just don’t deal well, or at all, with any of the hoohah bad guests dish out?

Look at this recent example of how Airbnb treats a Superhost dealing with rule breaking problem guests, 

https://community.withairbnb.com/t5/Hosting/Frustrated-with-customer-service/td-p/1418098

This host no longer has Superhost thanks to the guest, and while he was down on the ground, CS was telling him he can do better. @Katrina79

[Dale711]

Hi @Katrina79,

You’re right 

I’m totally agree with you!

                                            And ‘ a few bad apples doesn't spoil the bunch! ‘ 

[Ann72]

@Katrina79  Not to mention hosts who rush to offer a refund when the guest suffers a minor inconvenience.

[Mary419]

@Colleen253 Thank you! The bad actors are flocking to this platform because this is the place where they won’t get charged.  The word is out. I’m posting Twitter stuff since it’s public. 

last time I posted a screen shot of an agent denying me a host guarantee claim (an extra cleaning invoice the guest had refused to pay which was less than the “security deposit” posted) the screen shot was deleted by mods because you can’t show dialogue with the customer service reps. That really limits the proof of all the things that aren’t getting paid. But every host who posts their story matters and shouldn’t get shot down by other hosts. There were 3 different posts about unpaid pet damage, one about unpaid charge for lost keys, then we had the lost bike comment  all the same couple of times I’ve checked here while posting my comments. 

It is not a solution to charge everyone more to cover the bad apples. The bad apples need to get charged. Whether it’s a $200 deposit or more or less they need to lose money when they break the rules. 

[Maragret0]

@Mary419  very disturbing info. I'm  relatively new  to abnb. since i only rent one unit. I go to the house at checkout time. Since it's not their property, I enter. If they are not ready I wait! and "encourage" their departure.  I haven't had any serious concerns yet.  But my question is... if I have a guest that refuses to leave  it seems i would get no support from abnb?. My county regs say that a person must be given 30days notice to evict. But  isn"t this is a hospitality busness??? should I get help from law enforcement??

[Mary419]

You should be able to get them out as “innkeeper” without a true eviction. As long as the stay wasn’t long term. Calling the police is involved either way. But it’s correct Airbnb can’t and won’t help. They just tell you to call the police if the person is physically inside refusing to leave. They tell you that it’s your right to pack their stuff yourself... which is scary and gross.  My recent example the agent actually told me “it would be no big deal if it was just their stuff, but the gun makes it a big deal”.  

Airbnb MIGHT remove the guest from the platform if they know you had legal action taken to remove the guest. But not always. Either way if a guest profile gets removed it doesn’t get you paid for your time or loss of rentals to other guests. And there are tons of tweets joking about creating new Airbnb profiles after transgressions that resulted in bad review or removal. So not much to get happy about. 

[Ann72]

@Maragret0  I find this paragraph from the Airbnb Terms of Service very helpful in understanding this issue.  

"2.3 Accommodation Reservations. An Accommodation reservation is a limited license to enter, occupy, and use the Accommodation. The Host retains the right to re-enter the Accommodation during your stay, to the extent: (i) it is reasonably necessary, (ii) permitted by your contract with the Host, and (iii) consistent with applicable law. If you stay past checkout, the Host has the right to make you leave in a manner consistent with applicable law, including by imposing reasonable overstay penalties."

The reservation is a limited license - it does not convey the right of tenancy.  So you and @Mary419 are correct and your county regs don't apply to an Airbnb stay.  Until it becomes a long-term stay!  https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/2908/terms-of-service - scroll down to Paragraph 5, where the details on hosting begin, and look particularly at 6.2.

[Sarah977]

@Mary419  I've often suspected that a lot of Airbnb reps are the type of people that hosts would hate to have as guests. They take bad guests' sides because they would do exactly the same entitled things as the rest of the bad guests do.

[Elaine701]

I can say confidently, that if, at checkout time, the guest's "stuff" was in the house, and for several hours, they were unable to be contacted, that their "stuff" Would be sitting at the gate. 

[Mary419]

Ok I should rename this post something about social media posts mirroring my life as a host.

I don’t even use social media personally but I look at it to see what the world is doing that affects me 

Parties or squatting or other rule breaking issues are starting to happen to people who never had problems for years 

People are posting that they want to get an Airbnb and who wants to join them... total random strangers meeting up... see below for someone else’s compilation of the pop up Airbnb strip club posts 

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It’s not about this one woman over staying. I just saw those flippant accepting joking responses about overstaying and squatting and thought we could all chat about the platform needing reform.  And maybe you missed that the gun made it so I couldn’t pack her up. But packing people up isn’t my job.

I’m wanting hosts to see what’s going on and pressure Airbnb to reform 

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[Katrina79]

@Mary419 In what way are you advocating reform? As for late check outs with same day turnover you would qualify for an additional 2 nights stay paid out by the guest. Get the old guests out so you can get your cleaners in for a turnover and honour your next reservation. It probably is not your cleaner’s responsibility to ask guests to leave and pack up their stuff. You claim it is not your responsibility so who else would it fall on? I mean that as a serious question. With over 70 listings associated with your profile who is in charge of ensuring the guests leave? The owner or manager should hire a security guard company in this situation and use that two nights overstay charge to pay for it. If it is not you making the decisions to hire a security guard, you should have a talk with the boss.