MAY not be safe or suitable for children - ???

[Andrea9]

Since when does a company have the right to water down my decision that I can't - can NOT, will NOT - host children?

This whole discrimination issue is becoming ridiculous to the point that it is discriminating hosts.

Guests often don't read properly or at all, so why open the door to somebody appearing on your doorstep with a little one while you said you didn't/couldn't host them. There's reason for that, and it's not right to then question that decision and open up doors of 'maybe'. Many, esp. new hosts, don't have the stamina yet to address people directly at the door because they are breaking a rule or two and thus might have to be re-located. This community forum is full of hosts letting themselves be run over and then calling for help.

Seriously, what if a host DID let somebody with a toddler into their non-childproofed home because ABB said 'MAY not be safe....' and the parent decided What the heck, do it anyway, and that child then fell down a long flight of stairs?? or pulled something out of a shelf and something heavy from higher up crashed down on their head??

Would ABB take the brunt? Not sure about that.

I'm saving my energy and not protesting it, but my house rules have a clear NO to children for good reason. And guests automatically accept those too when booking.

My advice to all hosts is to use this option if you're not happy with ABB overriding your decision.

What's next?

There's still a few options open:

MAY be non-smoking

MAYBE no parties or events

MAY not be suitable for pets

[Marit-Anne0]

@Andrea9

Done the same as you - given an extra statement in the listing.  Another reason why IB is unsuitable.

[Ange2]

@Andrea9  There was a post about a woman being sued for violation of the Fair Housing Act, for having "Not Suitable for Children" on her listing.  There was no request from the guest, nor an attempt to book,  just a letter from a lawyer, other people have noted the same see link to post.  click here to read community forum post about it

I am wondering if that's why Airbnb changed it to "May Not Be".  Whatever the reason, especially if it is a legal compliance reason,  Airbnb should notify hosts why they changed it. Who knows where this is going, I have seen some irresponsible blogs saying Airbnb hosts 'hate' children and families, so maybe that has ramped up the venting and called the litigious to arms. btw: Seems it is the same people and same lawyer serving the papers.

 Airbnb should tell us what is going on and why they changed the wording.

[David126]

@Ange2 I was going to say the same, there have been at least 2 threads from Hosts complaing about the previous wording which they then blamed for being subject to legal action.

Obviously AirBnB is a global site and certainly in the US you have both federal and state law, which may be different on similar issues.

This law is Federal, and I do know enough for my activities and enough to know that a simplistic description is not possible.

The other threads were blaming AirBnB for letting them chose that option, a bit weird in my mind, You are running your business, your responsibility to know what the legal issues are, you can not pass that on to a booking service.

I assume this change was made in response to people not doing their due diligence.

Certainly ABB should give a heads up of any notifications, not just this bit, all the other changes.

[Ange2]

@David126   While I agree due diligence is definitely a must when running a business and I do that, I do not read my listing everyday and spend hours searching out subtle changes that might have been made, I found out from a post on the CC.  One assumes this one is due to legal compliance, Airbnb doing a blanket change to protect themselves, rather than a result of threads about the whys and why nots. One has to wonder why they did not apprise hosts of it. I am not saying they need to furnish the complete laws, especially as they vary from state to state, even city to city.  But,  I do think it is irresponsible of them to change the terms and re-draw the parameters without notice.  It might well be in their terms that they can do this but never-the-less it is still irresponsible.

Airbnb should keep hosts in the loop as regards changes they make, not least because it also affects a hosts choice regarding IB, Airbnb penalties and fines for declining and/or cancelling guests, which Airbnb profits from.

[David126]

@Ange2

I think we agree, no matter why they did this or anything else, they should notify their Hosts what they are doing, in advance, and why would be nice.

[Alice-and-Jeff0]

While I understand the change in wording, it really is a travesty how Airbnb is erroding the rights of the hosts in favor of the guests. They MUST get to that public offering - Silicon Valley is pushing, pushing to get back their investment capital.

We once had a couple who wanted to know if they could put a baby crib up in the closet of our guest room.  We've had another who wanted to know the dimensions of the bed because they were towing along their 2 small children who would sleep with them and wanted to know if the bed was big enough.  We've been requested to put up a crib, cot or sleeping bag in our room multiple times for a small one. 

No! We only take 2 people.  Period.  Now if you want to bring your 10-year-old and they sleep with you in the same bed, we may consider that - given the circumstances.  So "Maybe" might be the right choice for us - but I prefer not having to suss out if a parent is going to supervise their child and treat my home with care (like I do with a dog owner).  And I think it's a little creepy for parents and their kids to sleep in the same bed, but I get that it's my issue not theirs. 

We're childless by choice.  We don't hate kids we just never wanted any for ourselves. Therefore, our home is in NO WAY child-ready, quite frankly, it's the opposite - by choice. We don't have much in common with people who are still raising a family so those guests are already harder if their lives are their kids.  When we do get teenagers in the house with their parents, it is sometimes painful as we can only ask about school and activities for so long without contributing anything back. But there is no way I want a toddler in diapers in my home - I'd be a wreck worrying. I wouldn't even know how to suggest a restaurant in town or activity for a youngster - this is just setting me up to fail.   

My house rules are already too long and now I have to add another one?  Gah.  

[Andrea9]

@Ange2 @David126 @Alice-and-Jeff0 @Lawrene0

All you regulars on the community are familiar with all these prickly sides of this topic!

Being sued like those 2 hosts is immensely scary. Thankfully, on our side of the pond the trigger-happy litigation finger is much slower!

Anyway, what I have gleaned from all kinds of sources and another forum is this:

The (American) law differentiates between

- rentals offered in private homes in which the host lives and shares and

- rentals in spaces designated to be rented on short-term (non-permanent) basis and are not inhabited by the host.

  meaning vacation rental apartments (probably also RVs etc. - my interpretation)

Private home rentals are allowed to restrict bookings to adults and do not have to accept children.

The rentals not used as regular private home are considered publc rentals and may not exclude children, however if there are steep stairs and other such hazards, this may allow restrictions.

On the whole it started getting complicated re. the public rentals because there are different laws around them, and I only rent a space in my home and also live here and not in the US where these laws apply, so I didn't go deeper into this.

Further: I have also seen knowledgeable posts explaining that if specifying  the space s UNSAFE for children, this is not considered being discriminatory. This is due to the fact that it is warning about a possible hazard (like not pulling a plastic bag over your head and inhaling while sitting in the tub using the hairdryer). So not allowing children into a 10 ft high treehouse due to safety reasons is most probably not sue-able because it's a health warning. 

It seems that the expression 'suitable' alone could be misconstrued. Again, this is how I've understood what I've seen and read; I'm not a lawyer.

It seems to leave open too many questions as to why it's unsuitable - host afraid of children causing damage etc....

I personally think that if hosts were able to either put a hold on the security deposit instead of ABB, this would in many or most cases defuse the issue of accepting children. After reading so many reports of hosts reporting how difficult or impossible it was to have their damages reimbursed even from their own security deposit in instances with or without children it would make me a lot warier too in renting an independent unit.

And then there are reasons like @Alice-and-Jeff0 state. I too am very happily childless by choice and would like that to be continued in the ebb and flow of guests through my home. I hear enough high-decibel sounds and exchanges consisting of repetitive expressions like 'I want, but' and'No' countless times in succession are fine (actually no...) in situations I can remove myself from, but not in my home.

(Kind of funny - as I am writing this the piercing screams of a very unhappy toddler in the apartment downstairs fuel my thoughts! Luckily only another 4 of the original 5 months sublet left!)

So bottom line to remember: SAFE is the magic word!

[David126]

There are some pluses, I was talking to a lady who rents out a flat in SE London and had a tenant who would not leave. Not through ABB but that does not really matter.

Was a long and expensive process to get her out. Coincidentally I was talking to someone locally with a similar issue, still obviously a major pain but quicker and cheaper.

[Sharon114]

When our children were small we made sure that we had a safe environment for them to grow up in.  Our children are grown and live elsewhere now and when we moved to our present home we did not have to consider children.  We have two sets of winding stairs, various levels requiring steps up and down and quality furnishings and decoration.  We do not want young children charging about (all youngsters do) and making a lot of noise (something else they do).  We rent out 2 rooms in our house and often have two sets of guests staying.  We have no need to child-proof our home and guests appreciate a quiet, restful stay.

We have had a guest ask if they could bring their 2 year old to stay with them and they would share a bed.  This would have been for our room at the top of our house, up two flights of stairs.  Their request was declined.  I have no problem with children at all, just not in my home and under my house rules I have stated clearly that we cannot accommodate children.

[Mariann4]

And here I am... Reading this discussion... Seing warnings about suing and safety...

I allow, and want, children in my listing. It is on the second floor (or first, depending on language, since my house only have two floors) with stairs from the parking to the door. And stairs to get up to the room. I never considered it unsafe for children even though I have no gate to protect them from falling down the stairs. I simply put my dining chairs on the top, lying sideways. And trust that the parents watch their child/ren.

I see that in some countries I would be considered naive, and in others I might even break a law or two 😄

As to the topic though; I couldn't agree more @Andrea9! The word "may" should never have been put up

Mariann 🙂

[Ellie3]

I totally agree with you. I want to advertise as Adults Only as we have had a pretty horrific review after hosting a party with children at the same time as a couple. Our place is not suitable for kids and when I asked them not to play football on the terrace (as they were damaging the plants and planters) but to use the garden I was told off by the mother for having too many rules! They are noisy and dangerous and I just do not want the responsibility. I will host anyone under the age of 18.

[Branka-and-Silvia0]

What would you do and say when someone instant book your apartment for 5 people and then 4 adults + 1 child show up on your doorstep?

We were so unpleasently surprised that we didn't say nothing and let them in 😞  But next time I have to be prepared and know how to react .

Of course our house rules says No children under age of 12 but guests doesn't read it... or ignore it.

Our apartment is not suitable for kids, we have 8 glass top tables, 2 standing lamps, 1 wall mirror and every time we hosted kids, we had problems ( 5  out of 5 kids have peed in bed and 1 of them also broke our wall mirror which made a hole in our floor ) 

[Nina-and-Gary0 · Accepted solution]

Agree whole-hearted with you Andrea. I've written to AirBnB asking them to change the wording to remove any ambiguity. Either a host is willing to accept kids or s/he is not. Simple. 

Apartments and other lodgings are full of things that endanger the safety of toddlers, especially unannounced, unexpected toddlers since the host cannot take preventative measures. Drapes can be pulled down, TV remote controls can be opened up and lithium batteries swallowed. Cleaning chemicals under the sink can be opened and ingested. These are not actions that any BnB host wishes to contemplate when s/he falls asleep at night.

Aside from safety for the toddler, what happens if the child accidentally pees on the mattress? Or on the carpet? With the next guest checking in only hours after the child's parents have checked out, how is a paltry $300 security deposit going to help a host? 

An alternative to changing the wording for allowing/disallowing children is for AirBnB to allow hosts to vary the security deposit, so that guests with an infant/child have to pay, say, a US$10,000 security deposit.

For those who say restrictions such as these are acts of discrimination, I say (1) guests with a child can lodge with a child-friendly host, and there are plenty of them, and (2) restrictions pertaining to safety exist in other domains of life; you cannot enter a bank wearing a helmet, you cannot buy alcohol legally before you are a certain age; you cannot smoke in an aircraft.

BnB hosts have rights, too.

Nina & Gary

[Lisa367]

There's a ton of different guests that I wouldn't want to host, simply because of the history of hosting them.  People from certain countries (I will not name names) that have SERIOUS cultural differences in the bathroom... and its not like we've hosted these people once, we've had people from this particular country about 25 times and the bathroom is ALWAYS disgusting after they leave.  There's also a specific age group (again, wont elaborate) that feel the need to complain more, expect something for nothing, and always leave 2-3 stars for reviews.  It's your house and you should be able to choose (which is not discrimination) which countries and which age groups you don't want to host.  Now, if you're not hosting because you're against those countries for political reasons, that's discrimination.  But if you're against hosting people because of your bad experiences with them all, that's your right.

[David126]

It is certainly your right to do so, you just can not use AirBnB as your booking platform.