Full refunds without asking hosts permission

[Cam26]

From what I know it used to be that airbnb used to ask or at least notify hosts before refunding in full to guests for any reason. Looks like it is not the case anymore, I got a second case where I am notified post factum. Any idea why is this happening? Also anyway to reverse it, CS just ignores my messages. Guest lied saying they never stayed in listing, but I have them in ring doorbell. 

[Cam26]

We got payout issued just now guys. Thank you everyone who helped. Happy NY!

[Bhumika]

Thank you @Cam26 , for coming back and updating us! Really glad the issue is resolved for you🌻.

We're happy to announce the Month of Celebration!

Can’t find what you’re searching for? start a conversation

[Bhumika]

Hello @Cam26 ,

So sorry that you are having this confusion. I have raised your request to the concerned team if they can provide more information about this matter.

We're happy to announce the Month of Celebration!

Can’t find what you’re searching for? start a conversation

[Cam26]

Thank you so much.

[David3717]

@Catherine-Powell  can you please help us out?

[Pat271]

@Cam26  Something I have found helpful is to call Airbnb at the first hint that there may be major trouble brewing during a guest’s stay.

Treat the call as informational - abstain from whining or rambling on and on. Instead, approach it as a courtesy call of sorts. Something like “This may not end up being a problem, but just want to let you know that our current guest seems to be unhappy with xyz” or “I am working on it, but wanted to let you know that my current guest seems to be having an issue following my house rule abc”. They seem appreciative that they have your context recorded in writing in the event the guest calls them, and it also shows that you are a diligent host wanting to mitigate potential problems. I also sense that they are relieved that they don’t have to attempt to solve the problem at that very moment. 🙂

Call them before the guest has a chance to call them.

The few times I have done this in which problems escalated have always been resolved in my favor. 

[Huma0]

@Pat271 

While I agree with you, in this particular case, I don't think @Cam26 knew there was a problem in advance. The guest appeared to check in (recorded on the ring doorbell) but @Cam26 found out later that the guest was issued a full refund because they said they never stayed.

I am not sure of more details though. What was the cancellation policy? As far as I am aware, even a Flexible policy doesn't result in a full refund if the guest cancels less than 24 hours before check in. So, one can assume that the guest gave a reason for not staying, e.g. they did arrive at the property, were unhappy, contacted CS about a 'travel issue' and asked to be refunded. Still, in that case, in theory anyway, the guest is supposed to first contact the host about any problems and give them a chance to resolve them.

[Huma0]

@Cam26 

I don't know what to tell you. It has only happened to me twice, and those were both cancellations that Airbnb wrongly refunded under the COVID-19 EC policy, even though they didn't apply, e.g. they mistakenly refunded a guest for two weeks that she already stayed when there were no complaints nor problems. 

In both cases, it took a month of constantly harassing CS until I got my money back. The only method I found that worked was to keep it very short, factual and simply quote their own policy back to them, i.e.

CS Rep: The refund was in line with our policy.

ME: No it wasn't. Your policy states "X, Y, Z". 

Over and over and over until they relented and paid me back. Of course, it shouldn't be this way...

Any idea why this is happening? Because the reps are outsourced and trained to close a case as soon as possible and move on to the next so they would rather just refund that have a conversation about it. They are also allowed to say the decision is final even if they haven't addressed the actual questions/evidence, so again, it's easy for them to simply be done with it rather than investigate.

[Cam26]

I have opened cases several times but no one is answering.

[Huma0]

@Cam26 

Perhaps it is even worse over and in the lead up to the holiday period, I don't know.

Like I said, it took me a month to get a resolution and I was quite relentless about it. I called several times as well as using the messaging system. I got passed around a lot, CS kept trying to close the cases and did close one, so I had to start again. 

Some hosts say they have better luck with Airbnb's Twitter team. Maybe give that a try?

[Pat271]

@Huma0  Unfortunately, it’s much, much worse than that.

“Her Average Handle Time, the industry term for average length of call, had to fall between 6 minutes, 40 seconds and 12 minutes, 20 seconds. Commitments to get back to a customer to resolve a particularly complicated issue had to be kept at or below 0.5% of the calls. If she put a customer on hold, the average hold time had to remain below 30 seconds. She could offer a credit on a customer’s bill no more than once per 15 calls, and if she determined a customer was indeed owed money, any refunds or deductions had to average less than $2.50 per call.

Failure to meet any one of these 25 requirements “shall be deemed a breach,” the contract said, allowing Arise to terminate her job.”

This is from the article posted here:

https://www.propublica.org/article/meet-the-customer-service-reps-for-disney-and-airbnb-who-have-to-...

By the way, the refund rules wouldn’t apply to refunds to guests, since that would not be Airbnb money being refunded, it would be the host’s money.

Not that this is in any way an optimal way to handle issues, but I really had some sympathy for our CS reps after reading this.

[Huma0]

@Pat271 

Yes, I read that article too (and suggest that all other hosts read it before trying to decipher what is going on with CS), which is partly what my comments were based on. That, and experience!

That of course explains why CS reps (or the bot) are constantly trying to close down cases as resolved, even if the case hasn't been looked into at all, e.g. you've only received responses saying "I have been handed your case, but am finishing my shift and will be out of office for the next four days."

So, yes, you are right, there is often no point in 'shooting the messenger'. The problem is, Airbnb's 'escalation' process is far from transparent and they appear to have no formal complaints department nor procedure. I have actually never experienced another company that behaves in such a murky way.

[Amoreena2]

I actually had an experience as a guest that some friends and I booked an Airbnb midwinter specifically for the hot tub. As our stay neared, we noticed it had started getting reviews that the hottub had been removed. I asked the host if we could change our dates to the summer or get a discount as we were coming specifically for the hottub. The host told me he was forced to removed the hottub as a Covid 19 precaution. I checked the CDC recommendations and hot tubs are actually one of the safe places to avoid Covid. 

So because of what felt like blatant dishonesty and inflexibility (I’m a host, I will absolutely meet my guests partway if there is an issue), I reached out to Airbnb and they issued the full refund pretty quickly. I assumed they went back and read the messages as well as what the listing said when we booked it. 

a

[Huma0]

@Amoreena2 

I suppose if it's all spelt out between the guest and host on the message thread and listing description, as in your case, then there is perhaps no reason for Airbnb to reach out to the host for their side of the story.

Another reason why it's important to document everything in writing on the Airbnb messaging system. 

However, CS does seem to make some very random decisions which aren't based on evidence and sometimes simply by mistake. Once they've done it, it's not that easy to get that decision overturned or even re-examined.