Full Refund In PANDEMIC Situation?

[Giedre-and-Andre0]

Here a word to all Complainer:

I live in NYC and let's face it:
There will be no tourists coming in for the next few months (in best case).

I refunded every reservation (and blocked the calendar)
until the end of April, and I'm prepared that the rest of

the year will be fully refunded and going to ZERO...

I did very well last few years,
and NO, ITS NOT AIRBNB'S FOULT,
people can't fly, going out or even leave the house!

IT IS NOT a change of Airbnb's policy, it is EXACTLY as I signed up:
Travel restrictions = Refund
Deadly Pandemic = Refund
POSTER CHILD SITUATION OF extenuating circumstances situation!!!!
NOTHING CHANGED.

NOT ONCE I TRIED TO CALL OR CONTACT BnB LAST 2 WEEKS.

Once Airbnb boosted my business going from 0 to 100 in 2 weeks
by providing a genius model and worldwide outreach to billion of guests.

For the few $$$ per booking taking from me as a host, THEY OWE ME NOTHING!!!
As long they have 10-Thousands of people on payroll,
I don't have ANY problems with there current policy,
and I don't care if they keep a small service fee or not!!!

I'm still on the lucky end, we have other sources of income,
BUT around us, restaurants, airlines and small businesses will going out of business.

BUT YES, I agree, we losing money: IT SUCKS!!!

And still, our own decision to be in Guest/Tourist Industry
with all the fun, money to earn AND risk to take..!

WEE ALL WILL GO OUT OF BUSINESS,
IF Airbnb LOSES THERE REPUTATION WITH GUESTS DURING THIS CRISIS!!!
LET THEM DEFEND THE BRAND, OTHERWISE: THAT'S IT FOR ALL OF US !

And OF COURSE: I KNOW Airbnb is/was not perfect at all, the review system needs to be improved...
I KNOW! I guess NOBODY IS PERFECT 😉

Stay Safe,
Greetings from Brooklyn, NY

[Matthew1072]

@Ian-And-Anne-Marie0 I was calling into question how you defined "the right not to pay".  But, putting that aside, thank you for your response.  I appreciate the dialogue and the perspective.  

[Matthew1072]

Hi @Michael4841 I have to agree with @Donald28 on this one.  While it's unfortunate, and I feel for you, as your situation sounds particularly stressful I would point out that a split responsibility, whether that's 75%, 50%, 25% or something else less than 100%, does not solve your problem.

The problem is that you depend on guests continuing to travel.  That is not happening, period.  As of yesterday, the CEO of Airbnb announced that there would be a payout of 25% of what you would have received based on your cancellation policy.  But, how long will that last?  This pandemic is here for the foreseeable future, especially in NY.  Will you not be in the SAME exact spot a two weeks, or three weeks from now, when the money from the canceled reservations runs out?

This situation is unfortunate, and it is affecting us all.  I think this is a time for reflection.  It sounds like you may want to evaluate a more stable source of income, like having a roommate rather than Airbnb.

I also want to add, that I don't think (and I really hope) that you can work something out with your landlord.  Chances are, there are a lot of concerned people in your situation.  I don't think it makes sense (and may not even be legal) for your landlord to kick you out.  Any lease that I've signed did not allow for me to be kicked out for being late on the rent once.  In addition, eviction processes take a while and are expensive legal processes that your landlord is probably not looking to start with all of his/her tenants.  I don't like to put out information that I don't know to be true, but you may want to look into whether or not your locality or state has passed some law that limits evictions due to the current pandemic.  This may not apply to you, but in case it does (it may help someone else), many banks offer temporary mortgage relief/deferment in times of crisis.  This is nothing new.  Additionally, at least in CA, the governor is working with banks to give people a 90 day extension on their mortgage payments and student loans.  I'd encourage you to explore local options for financial assistance. 

Things will be okay.  They have to be.  Please be well and I will you all the best. 

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

@Matthew1072 

...I would point out that a split responsibility, whether that's 75%, 50%, 25% or something else less than 100%, does not solve your problem.

The problem is that you depend on guests continuing to travel.  That is not happening, period.  As of yesterday, the CEO of Airbnb announced that there would be a payout of 25% of what you would have received based on your cancellation policy.  But, how long will that last?  This pandemic is here for the foreseeable future, especially in NY.  Will you not be in the SAME exact spot a two weeks, or three weeks from now, when the money from the canceled reservations runs out?

This sort of dilemma would never had occurred if Airbnb simply adhered to the contracted cancellation policies. Would you not agree? The consequential result of "money running out" (if its the USD$250m you refer to), would never have been a problem if contracts were just never interfered with. Cancellation payments in this situation would have provided adequate income to a responsible host to make interim plans.

Lets not forget, unless Hosts connive to convince Guests to cancel only within the last few days of check-in, any possible 25% payout will only be 12.5%. Planning on a contracted 50% cancellation fee is a Hosts sensible expectation. 12.5% falls far short and is not the same.  A partner breaking a contract and forcing problems on Hosts is just inexcusable.

[Matthew1072]

@Ian-And-Anne-Marie0 As I've thought about this more I've come to appreciate your point of view about refunding guests.  However, given the current situation, I don't feel comfortable with the idea of holding my guests to my strict cancellation policy.  I feel this pandemic fits the "extenuating circumstances" that would ordinarily allow a guest to get a full refund regardless of the cancellation policy.  That being said, I don't like that guests were able to simply get their money back.  I feel that as a host I was left high and dry with nothing to show for it.  I would have preferred some innovative solution, where the reservation is put into some pending state, until the pandemic ends.  At that point, they would have the opportunity to re-book within a certain time frame (1-yr) with no additional fees.  It would be like issuing a credit, except that they have to spend that credit with you.  I like that guests were able to get credits, but I don't like that now they might choose to book with a different host when all is said and done.  I'm curious if this would be an acceptable scenario for you.

Also, I think my point about relying on income from Airbnb to pay your bills perhaps was unclear.  Cancellation policies aside, hosts will not be making their normal income for the foreseeable future.  The cancellation policy only helps you with existing reservations.  It doesn't do much to address the fact that people aren't making new bookings.  I am a new host, and while my occupancy rate is steadily growing with time, I was not anywhere near a 100% occupancy rate before all of this started.  In addition, my calendar availability window is set to 3 months.  Therefore, any potential earnings from a cancellation policy (had Airbnb not created a new one) would have only stretched out to May for me.  I don't know the situation of the host who I initially replied to, but I was making the assumption that they did not have 100% (or close to) occupancy for the rest of the year.

[Donald28]

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@Sarah977 wrote:

@Giedre-and-Andre0   Most of whom seem to be those who own multiple properties and have been making tons of money renting them out on Airbnb for years. Now they can't pay the mortgage on all their houses.

Exactly! Instead of BUYING properties, many of these complaining hosts have (illegally) signed leases on numerous rental properties just to rent them short term on airbnb... because let's face it, STR is way more profitable than LTR. So they took an affordable LTR off the market and turned it into a cash machine. That's all well and good until a pandemic or other extenuating circumstance happens and they can't pay the rent/s. Consider this a culling of THAT herd. Do airbnb as it was intended and you'll always be fine. Get greedy and try to make a living out of it and you're liable to find yourself on foodstamps 

[Giedre-and-Andre0]

Scenario:

In your neighborhood, you order at Mc Donalds,

$1000 food for a kid's birthday party

3-Way-Contract (between Guest, HQ, and Franchisee)
- You pay everything upfront + extra 14% service fee to an escrow account at Mc D headquarters
- HQ gets a $30 service fee from Franchisee ($970 payout)
   Service fee from Franchisee includes

   worldwide advertising, $1M protection against vandalism,
   full accounting and back-office service
- 50% refund if you cancel up to 7 days before

- 100% refund if the place burns down

NOW: THE PLACE BURNS DOWN (nobody's fault),
ALL Places burned gown in the entire area

you will get NO food
HQ wants to refund $1000 + SF to you as guest

HQ wants to refund $30 service fee to the franchisee

and the franchisee wants to get his 50% / $485 doesn't matter from whom...

YES, it would be nice if HQ helps out his franchisee

YES, it would be nice if a gov. helps out a struggling business

YES, it would be nice if a business would have insurance protection

BUT:

Should the guest be out with $500?

Should the guest be blamed to have no insurance protection for this case?

[Anthony1092]

Yes, the guest should when they agree to it, like here.

Also, McDonalds doesn’t use words like “community” when they describe someone buying hamburgers. 

Also, your hypothetical builds in an automatic 100% refund for a total loss.  That’s not what the agreement with Airbnb was, even in light of the “extenuating circumstances” policy.  The policy never said that guests would get 100% full CASH refunds (as opposed to giving Airbnb Credit like most other intelligent business have been doing).  It says Airbnb MAY override the current cancellation policies.—— That doesn’t mean they didn’t do it in a way that was unfair, self-serving, and possibly illegal.

So your hypothetical doesn’t match the real world situation.  Sorry.  Nice try though.

[Giedre-and-Andre0]

@Anthony1092 You / guest / BnB agreed to “extenuating circumstances” policy

YES/NO

A pandemic / worldwide travel restriction / Gov. restrictions / closing of businesses / border closings / very strict DO NOT GO OUTSIDE order, are covered by  “extenuating circumstances” policy

YES/NO

If you pick less than 2 yes, there is really no ground to start a discussion with you, however, I totally understand the frustration!

BUT: THERE IS NO "override the current cancellation policies"

Short additional question:
What is the position from YOUR business-insurance?
They should cover?
You called them or put in a claim?

Please look in your policy and let us know.

[Anthony1092]

You missed my point.  I think there is the possibility that Airbnb implemented their policy in an illegal way.

However, even if they didn’t technically break the law, they clearly implemented it in an unnecessarily unfair way.  Go back and read the policy.  It would have been fully within their rights to offer guests refunds of Airbnb credit.  Or some mix of cash and Airbnb credit.  That would have shared the loss amongst all parties in a fairer fashion.

At any rate I’m not sure why you think it’s improper for people who got the raw end of the deal to call out a company for screwing them over.  Even if it was a matter of what Airbnb COULD do versus what they MUST do- it doesn’t matter.  

When their entire business is built on the concept of “community”, and when they rely on their HOSTS to literally rally local politicians to have laws changed to allow their business to exist, it doesn’t seem particularly unfair to call them out when they do something “unneighborly”. 

[Giedre-and-Andre0]

Yes... our neighbourhood is also a "community"...

...AND NO, I do not bring my favorite restaurant a weekly check of 50% of my usually spending!!!

I really would like to get a list from some hosts, what they think they should be entitled to, in exchange of a 3% service, in addition to:

- $1M host guarantee

- worldwide advertising

- Handling complete accounting and back-office

- Expecting to get a claim processed for "stained sheets"

- Enforcing a "No Party Policy" for a remote-hosted property

IF we would need to advertise our STR's worldwide in local newspapers (cost would be probably $87M a day)...

...are we then entitled to go after NY-Times (Or the guest?) for a pandemic caused cancelation?

[Juan63]

@Giedre-and-Andre0 They picked the business model, we agreed to follow it. @Anthony1092 is correct, they had a right to cancel our reservations but maybe not the income. Not sure why you are so against host getting what they signed up for, but wait you are, that's been the whole argument. Hosts are entitlement to get a fair shake, at the very least.

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

@Giedre-and-Andre0 

Scenario:
In your neighborhood, you order at Mc Donalds,

$1000 food for a kid's birthday party

You have that completely wrong.

In many Hosting cases - like with us - we're not burned down. We are here, ready, prepared, and able.

There are no national travel restrictions and nobody is stopping guests coming to us.

Airbnb are overriding our listing settings, as though they own our listing and encouraging guests to cancel when they are supposed to be our Sales Agent and increasing bookings.

Extenuating Circumstances can apply, but they need to be Nationally, Regionally and Locally detailed. If they can't do that, then they shouldn't meddle. A blanket Extenuating Circumstances policy doesn't work.

Every listing is different. Every Host's financial situation is different. Every Host's cancellation policy is different.

All the food is here; Hot, Plated up and ready to eat. 

[Giedre-and-Andre0]

@Ian-And-Anne-Marie0 In many Hosting cases - like with us - we're not burned down. We are here, ready, prepared, and able.

There are no national travel restrictions and nobody is stopping guests coming to us.

That's SOOOO GREAT!!!!
RUUUUUUNNNNNN.....
GOOOOO FOR IT:
Take a couple of thousand $BP$ in your hand, advertise in London -Times and
DO IT :-))))  Looks like a PROMISING business model to me ;-)))

[Ian-And-Anne-Marie0]

@Giedre-and-Andre0 

Looks like a PROMISING business model to me ;-)))

You're so living in the past! 

[Giedre-and-Andre0]

@Ian-And-Anne-Marie0 

"There are no national travel restrictions and nobody is stopping guests coming to us."

God bless Boris and GB !!!