Another airbnb house party makes the news...

Another airbnb house party makes the news...

Mega "airbnb house party" in Sunnyvale, CA, hundreds of people, advertised all over social media, underage drinking, two shootings, one dead.

Don't know the back story but obviously not authorized by the host. 

Now the City of Sunnyvale is considering banning all airbnb's.

Meanwhile,  many hosts complain on the CC that airbnb does not back them up to stop parties.  Lets the guests get away with it and often sides with the guest over the host.    (ie revenge reviews allowed, not supported with damage claims, etc).

When will they learn.  

41 Replies 41
Elaine701
Level 10
Balearic Islands, Spain

Forget Airbnb support. The onus falls entirely on the host. 

 

Most "professional" hospitality (hotels, resorts) employs security and cleaning staff. STR hosts don't have those resources. So, it's extremely challenging to prevent this sort of thing. But without the support of the platform (Airbnb isn't the only one who has dwindling host support), your only choice is to become your own police, and stop it before it gets started. 

 

Vet your guests! Carefully. 

 

No, it's not easy or fair, but it's the nature of the beast. Relying on Airbnb or anyone else to prevent it or compensate for it is like asking the kindergarten class to watch over it while you're out. 

@Elaine701

Hi Elaine can you share tips on how you vet your guests?anks Angie

 

 

 

Angie
Elaine701
Level 10
Balearic Islands, Spain

@Angie520 

 

Well, it's just common sense, but there's a procedure... 

 

First, as a new host, if you choose to enable "instant book", then turn on all filters. All of them. Verified ID, good reviews, profile photo. This tends to narrow it down to those who have a good history with Airbnb. It's not a guarantee, but it seems to weed out the worst of them. 

 

Second, those who can't instant book must either "inquire" or "request" a booking.

 

Or just don't enable instant book and then everybody has to ask. 

 

If you don't know the difference, "inquiries" are simply that. Someone sends you a message asking about the property, availability, etc. You must respond quickly, or your response rate drops. 

 

A "request" is an actual request to book. They've already committed, and all you need to do is "accept" or "decline" their request. 

 

Declining a request can also harm your scores, so you need to tread that path carefully. 

 

Anyway, here's where the vetting begins. 

 

Most "good" guests will tell you who they are and why they like your property. Maybe say "it's me and my husband and 2 children coming for a much needed break", much like your friends might speak. Stuff like that. But there's more to ask before accepting their booking.

 

It's always a good idea to look at their profile before anything else. Do they have one? When did they join? Do they say anything about themselves in the profile? Do they have any reviews? Verified ID? If not, then start asking why. But do it in the, same way you might explain it to say, a nice acquaintance at your sport club. Respectfully

 

If they just joined, and have no profile or history, it's a red flag. Be very cautious. And honest.

 

Now you should point out that they have no profile or history, and that makes them "statistically" a bit risky... and begin reminding them of house rules, and penalties, and nicely ask them to expressly agree that they understand these rules, and penalties...

 

...and then wait to see their response. if they dodge the point, or vanish... You're probably better off. If their response is weird, or strange, tell them you don't think they are a good fit, and ask them to cancel their request. 

 

The bad ones are pretty obvious right off the bat. No profile, no history, and they're either too smarmy, over emphasizing how wonderful they are and how great your house is, or can't form a sentence, or say things that suggest they're just not being honest about something. Red flag. Scare them away. You don't want them. Too risky. 

 

There's a third type, the groups of 19-25 year old males. Very high risk group. Try to scare them away by (nicely) explaining they're a high risk group, and so you have to ask a hefty security deposit. It usually scares them away, but if not, they'll want their security deposit back, so you can be pretty sure the house will be pretty clean and orderly at checkout. Sometimes amazingly so. It's always worked for us. 

 

For all others who are forthright about who they are and their intentions, and have a long list of good reviews, you should treat them like friends and never question their intentions, as long as they don't exhibit any strange or over the top requests or change their tune mid conversation. Just accept their booking. They're likely to be good guests. 

 

That's what we do now, and we've kept a pretty good stream of pretty good guests, after being horribly sideswiped a few times. 

Mark116
Level 10
Jersey City, NJ

While I hate to see the short term rental industry as a whole regulated out of existence, this is wholly on Airbnb for failing, again and again, to work pro-actively with hosts who try to cancel/evict guests who are holding unauthorized parties.  That may not be the case in this specific instance, but there are too many examples of hosts begging Airbnb for help in relocating party throwers for it not to be correct.  Everything the company does is window dressing and PR.  I'm sure they do cancel some party reservations but based on this forum, it has to be a massive event to get Airbnb to take action.

"there are too many examples of hosts begging Airbnb for help in relocating party throwers"

 

Relocating them to where, Hooters? I'm not aware of any kind of host or business that wants to be called at 2 AM by an outsourced call-center worker asking if they can accommodate dozens of drunk and disorderly guests at the last minute because they broke the rules of their original booking. 

 

I wonder, if someone has totally lost control of their house and the only thing they can think of to do about it is to call a website for help, are they really qualified to be managing a rental in the first place? By the time things have gotten so bad that a host has to call Airbnb in despair, I have to wonder if they just lacked the necessary skills for their job as de facto landlord to begin with.

@Anonymous as you are not allowed to cancel a stay without penalty, yes, hosts are primed to call ABB for assistance with what they tout as totally unallowed guest behavior. I think we would all just throw guests out if it would not get our listings shuttered while ABB "investigates."

 

My ideal solution would be:

 

1. Warn the guest of consequences if they lied during booking.

2. Watch the space and report/photograph illicit activity

3. Report to ABB

4. ABB calls the guests, informs them of the immediate termination of their stay with a deadline to vacate and finds the registered folks another place to stay (parties always involve unregistered people who one assumes will just go back home.)

5. Host or cohost goes to the property after the deadline to ensure there are no leftover guests, locks the place up or begins cleanup.

 

Many hosts may not be comfortable confronting a group of strangers to evict them from their homes in the middle of the night. Even a landlord has a sheriff serve the eviction notice in most jurisdictions in the US. I certainly would not put myself in a situation that could be dangerous and unpredictable to prove I have the cojones to keep control of my own property. I mean, I can be a bit of a badass but not alone faced with a crowd of drunk strangers/strangers under altered conditions. I would need some legit backup. And I would also want the authority of the platform to get behind their policy and be the neutral voice that enforces it. 

@Laura2592   I know for certain that you are more than just a bit of a badass! But yes, you make a totally valid point about personal safety concerns when hosts (who don't tend to have private security detail) have to confront and evict guests. That is definitely something every host must consider in the worst case scenario.

 

But what you propose there sounds like a really unwieldy process even when everything goes exactly as you'd hope. Compile your evidence, call Airbnb, wait for however long it takes to get an operator on the line, explain your situation, and ideally after several minutes of processing they tell you that they'll contact the guest. Oh but wait, the guest is in the middle of a party, not answering the phone or responding to messenger, so they might not get word of this remote termination coming from a home worker in Manila until the next day. Meanwhile, as each critical minute goes by waiting for a distant third party to resolve your crisis for you, more people keep streaming into the house, more alcohol and drugs get consumed, attitudes get worse and more of your stuff gets potentially damaged. And if the guest actually manages to pick up the phone and receive that stern secondhand message from your listing service, there's still that quandary of where a group of people known to be a nuisance and security risk can be relocated to and who's going to pay for it. 

 

Also, I'm struggling to see how a guest who is a danger to you if you confront them directly is going to be more benign if they first get a call from an Airbnb staffer (who probably lacks the understanding to properly advocate on your behalf). You're still stuck with the physical task of the removal and whatever fallout that entails; the endorsement of Airbnb isn't going to be a magic shield against aggression or retaliation.  However, in all the hours spent following your proposed procedure, the situation has escalated past the point of no return, from a couple of extra guests to a small army of people that no host is a match for.  The last chance to prevent a disaster has already been squandered by the owner of the home because they were afraid of a penalty from a website.

 

I picture the captain of the Titanic waiting on hold for AtlanticBnB to authorize him to steer around the iceberg. That doesn't strike me as the best way to run a ship.

 

 

@Anonymous yes I hear you. But I just don't know what other processes would be available to terminate such a stay without putting the host in a potentially dangerous situation. Calling the police in the US may also result in tragedy.  It would be a step in the right direction for ABB to help hosts in real time,  as they pretend they do, no matter how awkward or bureaucratic the chain of communication. And banning guests who violate the party policy from the platform would also be vital. Buy I sincerely doubt I'll see either of these things happen  

@Laura2592  Real-time assistance is definitely not the direction they're moving in; it's all an Autobahn to Automation from here on out. Knowing what we're working with here, I feel like the best thing they can do is come clean about the limitations of their service. If a host needs to take a decisive action in a broken-rule situation, there should never be anything holding them back from doing that first. It's fine if the host still has to prove after the fact that the eviction was justified, and I can see situations where they might have to pay a settlement to the guests if a credible mediator found the evidence insufficient. 

 

What I can't see is how someone on a phone overseas (or. soon enough, an Uncanny Valley chatbot)  can prevent a host from being in a dangerous situation. That's a potential danger hosts impose on themselves when they choose high-risk rentals as their occupation, and they always have the alternative of simply not renting their homes out to strangers from the internet. What kind of protection could a faceless global website realistically offer you when you have a real-life in-person situation? How did we even get to the point as a society where we believed that once we reached adulthood, corporations would just take over as our parents?

Helen427
Level 10
Auckland, New Zealand

Would the city of Sunnyvale, California say the same if it was the Mayor or Municipal Council staff property where such an incident had happened?

Parties and shootings can and do happen all over the world at any given time.

There will always be criminal activity in the world, sad to say but true, it's been happening for donkeys years.

Now, who recalls those childhood stories about Cowboys and Indians?

 

@Dave52 @Pat271 @Jillian115 @Elaine701 

 

@Helen427 It's true parties, and shootings happen a lot around the world. But I believe that this is a current issue plaguing the STR industry, and the cities and counties are fighting back. If Airbnb doesn't adjust and work to improve safety, I think they will find more and more government regulations preventing new listings and many more hosts unwilling to host guests without ratings. Teens used to throw parties when their parents were out of town now they're renting Airbnb's and advertising it on social media. Times have changed. 

We also need to be alert to and mindful of this creeping across the world...It's insidious.

 

They have been trying to do this here in New Zealand via Auckland Council who think they have the rights to take other people's homes that are 'Vacant' assuming they are owned by people living overseas or who have more than one home.. It all goes back to Digital Age technology unfortunately and a lack of Cross referencing what materials and means of the day people once had and no air travel or internet to undertake fraud.

 

Once upon a time people worked for and built their own homes with next to nothing but sustainable materials....Various Policy Advisors to Governments have messed with this and screwed it up for everybody over the last 30 years, including with 'Healthy Homes' ideas that have come about through flawed ideas and are unhealthy homes themselves.

There's a very good reason why people built homes with Open Air Windows and fireplaces that used wood and coal over and above 'Synthetic materials' that those with common sense would never allow.

 

 

Berlin and threat to seize property

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/europe-news/berlin-and-threat-to-seize-property-8089804

 

@Jillian115 @Dave52 @Michelle53 @Inna22 @Laura2592 

 

Oh right, because what could possibly be healthier than burning coal inside your house? 

 

If bad ideas were a viable energy source, you'd be one of our most renewable resources!

Michelle53
Level 10
Chicago, IL

And then there are the "influencers" who post articles like this :-

 

https://trip101.com/article/party-houses-to-rent-for-one-night-chicago

 

Updated 6/18/21.    One-nighters have been illegal since last year September. 

@Michelle53  Hmm, number 3 sure does look familiar....