Guest threw a party during Corona Virus, Police Called, Airbnb unreachable by phone

[Sean433]

Yesterday at 2:00am, I had to rush over at one of my listings due to noise complaints received by neighbours. I knocked the door which was opened by guests who were extremely trashy. A strong smell of weed exited the home as they opened the door. At that point, I realized I needed to end their reservation. One thing I never tolerate is people smoking inside. The poor neighbour has two young kids who were kept awake because of the trashy guests.

Police had to be called when they refused to leave. The REASON they refused to leave was because airbnb was unreachable by phone to cancel the reservation. They have a pre recorded message that due to shortage of staff, they are not taking any calls. Ultimately, the police refused to kick them out because the reservation could not be cancelled. Our joke of a police department still had the ability to kick them out for breaching our contract by breaking noise ordinance bylaws and hosting an unauthorized party. Yet they seemed to think the guest had the same rights as a long term tenant (untrue). This joke of police also told me that even if the guest had 40 people over, they cannot go inside and kick them out. When I mentioned that there were several incidents of shootings at airbnb's in Toronto, they just brushed it off and said "so what? Who are you to say this would turn into a shooting"?

Having hosted well over 500 reservation thus far, this was the first time I had to ever involved the police who were completely useless and not even aware of my rights as a landlord. Police were even more useless because airbnb was not available for us. Currently the guests are still there and set to check-out tomorrow as they refused to leave. Police have sent them the message that they can do whatever they want with people's property up to and including having 20, 30 , 40 g-d knows how many people without recourse.

On top of that, they didn't even care that this is the worst time to host a party due to the Corona Virus. There is never a good time to host an unauthorized party however this would be the absolute worse time. to the TORONTO POLICE, you are a JOKE and that is why nobody takes you seriously. You had some 10 officers there and none of them were fully aware of my rights at that moment. Additionally, you took my ID and recorded it however you did not take the ID of the guest when you spoke to her.As such, you failed to document the events and those who were involved. That was your first mistake. Your second mistake was telling me that the guest has a right to stay despite breaking bylaws and thus breaching our contract.

[Sean433]

In case anyone from Toronto police reads this, this is why people in our city do not take you seriously. This is why the guest whom you spoke did not even care that you came. In fact, she was cool as cucumber talking to you guys. In fact, it seemed as if she had a lot of practice talking to police. Based on how calm she was, it was so evident this was not her first interaction with you guys and she already learned long ago that you can almost get away with anything.

[Danielle476]

Speak for yourself.  Toronto police aren’t your personal bouncers, and can’t enter a house to break up a party without a warrant. Citing ‘smoking’ as a ‘hazard’ and grounds for forcible removal is also an epic leap. If someone has a reservation in place, they’re legally allowed to be there.  Throwing a party isn’t illegal. Smoking marijuana isn’t illegal. What did you expect them to be able to do?  Cuff them all and take them away?

A host as experienced as you should understand the bad that comes with the good. Don’t take your misfortune out on police, who are already overworked and overloaded on a good day, never mind now with COVID and their health on the line in addition to their personal safety. Repeatedly calling them ‘pigs’ in your posts here with such ease tells me you probably weren’t all that respectful in person either.

[Mark116]

@Sean433  How truly bizarre.  First, what kind of insane lowlifes have a raging party when everyone is supposed to be staying home.  And the police response, also bizarre. I  know there is a misunderstanding many places that airbnb guests are 'tenants' but even if they were tenants with a lease they cannot have a raging, loud party that disturbs the neighbors, not even counting the social distancing aspect.  Just on that account of being loud and out of control, the party should have been broken up and all the non resident guests made to leave.  

[Jody79]

@Sean433 @Mark116 Unfortunately many young folks do not take COVID-19 seriously as by and large even if they contract it, they will not experience the most serious complications.  What they don't take into consideration (or more often just don't care) is that they can pass it onto higher risk individuals who are much more likely to experience these serious complications.  Young people are continuing to party here in places like Florida for Spring break as they normally would.

[Anonymous]

@Sean433   I suppose your guest's calmness might have also had something to do with that potent weed.

I don't know about the city of Toronto's policy on this, but in most places I've lived, the police would consider it your responsibility as the business owner to deal with your customers. If you were running a hotel or nightclub, you'd be using a private security service as your front line against guests who are breaking your rules. There's no reason a community shouldn't expect the same of Airbnb hosts who don't feel able to keep control of their own property.

At any rate, if the issue at hand was only that you couldn't get Airbnb on the phone, this should not have been a factor. You could have cancelled the booking on the spot without involving the call center.

[Sean433]

@Anonymous 

By your logic, if someone came into a restaurant which is a private business and started smoking inside causing a health hazard to others, and refused to leave, does that mean the restaurant owner cannot expect to receive help from the police? What if he was causing a nuisance to others on top of that which is what these guests had done yelling and shouting at 2:00am ( a breach of noise ordinance bylaw)

A hotel and nightclub requires security by law. You are required to have security once you reach a certain amount of people in your place of business or in an event and even then it depends on the nature of the business. Renting a home to 5 people does not require security. Bad example. Legally, I cannot force them out with force if they did not want to leave. There was no other way for me to get them out except to call the police. Both airbnb and the JOKE POLICE who do not even understand the difference between long term and short term tenants failed to serve us and the community which was also at risk.

Also, i tried to cancel it on my own but as you may know, they do not allow hosts to cancel a reservation once it has began. It comically prompted me to call Airbnb when I tried this. Not possible to cancel.

[Nanxing0]

@Sean433 Legally speaking, it's different stories. If your guest has a valid reservation with you, then police indeed cannot do anything unless you can prove they are doing something in the house ILLEGALLY. Having a party is certainly not illegal. If they are making excessive noise, you can ask police to ask them to silence down due to the local noise act. Only if you cancel the reservation you can ask the police to kick them out, because in this case you can deem them trespassing and being in your property illegally. If the reservation is there, their action is basically breaching your house rule, which is something at most a civil case between you and the guest, that police cannot do anything. Just like when you evict a tenant you need to go through all legal processes and at the end the court will order the police to move the tenant out, not you.

My business partners have had several cases like this before and our local police don't do anything either. It's right now a "common sense" among the police that they have to handle those Airbnb party this way, unless the reservation is cancelled. It's a big headache though and now our solution is to section our house to small units so holding a party becomes virtually not practical. I almost never had such party problems with my small units, only a couple cases some guests made some excessive noise but definitely not some party as such. Those party people seek for whole houses so they will automatically exclude my listings.

As for the restaurant thing you mentioned, that's a different story. Restaurant doesn't have agreement with any guest that they can stay in the restaurant for any period of time, like the reservation/lease we have with rental properties. If the guest violated the restaurant rule, the restaurant has all right to kick him out with police help. 

Again, when you deal with police, everything go down to legal. Don't be emotional. Even if it doesn't make sense to anyone as long as you don't have legal reason the police won't work that way. They need to make sure they don't violate any law as law enforcement. That's the base line.

[Sean433]

@Nanxing0 

@Helen3 

@Anonymous 

@Linda108 

Hi there, so I had a nice discussion with a police supervisor who oversees the division that handled the matter that night. He confirmed that the police that were there that night were in the wrong. He said that my situation would have fallen under the "innkeepers act" and under this act, a hotel, for example, can ask any guest to leave if they are breaching a policy. In fact, he said that they do not even have to offer the guest a refund although it is good practice.

When I said to him that I offered the guest a refund for unused nights and the police actually left it up to the guests to accept or decline it, he confirmed the officers were wrong about that. He said he will have a discussion with all of the officers that were there that night to educate them on this matter.

The supervisor also asked me if I had called a supervisor that night. I did not which I regret. He said the supervisor could have assisted me and had I called him, the matter would have been resolved with the guests being thrown out. So if you find yourself in such a situation, know your rights and don't take no for an answer. You can always escalate it to their supervisor. I knew my rights and I knew at that moment they were breaching it by allowing the guests to stay.

So, everything regarding evicting guests @Nanxing0   you said is essentially wrong at least in my province. You can be well versed in your rights but when the police do not know what the laws are around short term rentals, how can they protect your rights?  It is unfortunate that a citizen such as me was the only one that knew his rights among 10 police officers. I don't plan on having this happen again. I have recently just banned all local requests, no exceptions however if this happens to anyone of you, don't take no for an answer if you know what your rights are. Just ask them to call a supervisor.

[Nanxing0]

@Sean433 I and my business partners have spoken to multiple supervisors in the Philadelphia police department and the answer we received are almost the same from them, at least none of them mentioned something like "innkeepers act". The innkeeper's law in Pennsylvania only has limited right for the host to kick the guest out, including only 5 situations that doesn't mention anything about party. The only thing that possibly covers would be one situation in the "disorderly" that says "makes unreasonable noise". That's why I mentioned the noise act. The law is different state to state so better check with your local law, but I agree with you that rejecting any local guest would be the best practice to prevent such incident.   https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/li/uconsCheck.cfm?yr=2016&sessInd=0&act=51

[Helen3]

OMG @Sean433  how awful for your neighbours and you.

It sounds like you don't have CCTV at your listing, if your neighbours had to contact you to let you know your guests were partying and disturbing them. Something to look at as you are hosting remotely.

But I have to ask why you are continuing to take bookings when all government and health advice is not to encourage people to travel to and within your area as they can however unwittingly spread the virus.

As Airbnb hosts we need to be part of the solution and not encourage people to come to our locations.

Can you imagine what would happen if someone at the party had the virus, spread to others who in turn took it back to their communities?

I am shocked that you felt it appropriate to use the resources of your local police force, at this busy time when they are having to deal with the corona virus,  to break the party up when it was a civil matter which you as the business owner should have been dealing with.

They were right they don't have powers to remove your guests as the booking wasn't cancelled through Airbnb. You do.

[Sean433]

@Helen3 

No Helen, you are wrong on many levels here..

First, the guest said it was for her and her family who were local. 5 in total.  They were not traveling outside our city. Normally I do not accept local bookings but she had 3 good reviews. So if the guest lies and brings an additional 3 guests who were shouting and yelling, that is on her.

Second, it was appropriate using the resources of our JOKE POLICE because had this party grown from 8 or 10 guests that were there to 20 or 30, that would then be a risk to the entire community. At the time, they were already causing a nuisance to one neighbour. The police actually had nothing to do. Nobody is out. Bars and restaurants closed. 5 cop cars and 10 police officers showed up when 2 would have been sufficient. They were all joking around with each other. They had nothing to do that night. This was there only entertainment. Seriously.

Third, I was not able to cancel it on the app. It asked me to call airbnb to cancel. One thing I did not add in my post. 1 officer actually asked me if I would be willing to give the refund in Cash. Also, he said that even if I offer a refund, the guest has the right to refuse it and stay.Wrong again!

And yes they do have powers to remove the guest if they are breaking bylaws and I consented to refunding them which would terminate our contract. Except you missed the part that the guest had already breached our contract several times over.

Also, I am accepting bookings because expenses need to be met. I am not sure if you are closed down for business but we aren't able to close down with numerous listings. We remain open mainly for long term tenants at this point.

[Helen3]

Of course I am closed for business; I want to play my part in helping not increase the spread of the virus @Sean433 

I really don't understand as a property management company why you don't have CCTV; if you had you could have shut down the party before it started.

We all have expenses but some of us are taking the responsible route and minimising the risk to our communities by not taking bookings however hard it is for us personally. Have you looked at the mortgage breaks many mortgage companies are offering?

All small businesses are struggling, many large and small,  will have to close, we are all in this together as Airbnb hosts we have our part to play by not encouraging people (apart from key workers) to travel within our communities.

[Sean433]

@Helen3 

We have a camera. I do not check it at 2:00am. They had only 3 -5 extra unregistered guests. So it was not a rager but it could have grown to way more had I not shown up.

This home that it happened to is one that my wife and I actually own so we are exceptionally careful with it. Many of the other listings are a client of mine. I cannot tell him to close for business and I cannot tell him to defer his mortgages. That is why we are doing more long term stays now. Almost all my listings now have guests who are staying for 30 days or more so we are doing our part to control the spread.

[Helen3]

Absolutely you can't tell other hosts that whose properties you manage to close, but you can decide not to have yours open and say that you aren't able to manage them when health advice says that we shouldn't be doing this.

Depends on your moral compass really.